Potassium Bicarbonate better than Potassium Gluconate for Afib?

I've used Gluconate for quite a long time to control fast heartbeats in the night but only recently started to consider the benefits of the Bicarbonate form which very few on the Forum seem to use.

This form would seem to have the additional benefits of Bicarbonate as well as Potassium and could be less expensive with roughly twice (anyone got an exact percentage figure?) the elemental Potassium of the Gluconate form.

Any comments on why it's not more popular?

Sam

Sam,

I use it for the exact reason you mention - more bicarb. I take about 4g of potassium/day in this form. I also use Waller Water (magnesium bicarb) concentrate for the same reason.

George

Is there too much sodium in this product [www.amazon.com]

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Lone paroxysmal vagal atrial fibrillation. Age 62, female, no risk factors. Autonomic instability since severe Paxil withdrawal in 2004, including extreme sensitivity to neuro-active drugs, supplements, foods. Monthly tachycardia started 1/11, happened only at night, during sleep, or when waking, bouts of 5-15 hours. Changed to afib about a year ago, same pattern. Frequency increased over last 6 months, apparently with sensitivity to more triggers. Ablation 6/27/13 by Steven Hao.

George, can I ask how and when you take the Potassium Gluconate.

My initial reason for getting it was to try it as a replacement for Sodium Bicarbonate which I've been taking last thing at night to prevent acid reflux - which it did.

However, I was quite often getting fast beats in the night and felt that reducing sodium while, at the same time, increasing potassium would help. It did but it also upset my stomach.

Do you take it with meals and, if so, do you worry about cutting down stomach acid when it's needed most?

Sam

Being sensitive to supplements, etc., and already having experienced hyponatremia while experimenting with potassium, I'm looking for potassium carbonate in milligram dosages rather than grams -- like the powder. The dosage of the powder is too unpredictable for me.

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Lone paroxysmal vagal atrial fibrillation. Age 62, female, no risk factors. Autonomic instability since severe Paxil withdrawal in 2004, including extreme sensitivity to neuro-active drugs, supplements, foods. Monthly tachycardia started 1/11, happened only at night, during sleep, or when waking, bouts of 5-15 hours. Changed to afib about a year ago, same pattern. Frequency increased over last 6 months, apparently with sensitivity to more triggers. Ablation 6/27/13 by Steven Hao.

Sam,

I take mine morning and evening, not usually with meals. I read something that suggested taking it at least an hour before meals, that stomach acid was less then and better for absorption of the bicarb. In the morning, I normally take it, with mag bicarb and mag chloride, about an hour after breakfast (not that this is ideal - it just fits my schedule. I put it in a water bottle and take it with me when I leave the house and drink it when I get to my office). In the evening, it may be before or after the meal, usually when I take my evening mag and taurine. I also take 0.5 gram morning and evening of potassium citrate morning and evening. I should note I do not have digestive issues, so that is not a factor in timing for me.

George

Sam - I agree with you and George about the bicarbonate form of potassium. I use both forms but favor the potassium bicarbonate just for the overall alkalizing effect on health. I do not have digestive problems but favor keeping tissue slightly alkaline. This complements nicely the tremendous overall health effect from the magnesium bicarbonate water...aka WW.

George - how much of the WW concentrate do you consume in a day? I know you posted that but I've forgotten.

Jackie

Jackie,

I varies over time, but right now I'm taking 100 ml morning and evening. I think this works out to about 300 mg of mag from this for the day. I've taken 200 ml each but recently decided to add 50 ml of my mag chloride solution morning and evening (the MgCl2 has about 4 g mag/liter so 100 ml would be 400 mg of mag for the day from this).

I'm always tinkering but my mag right now consists of
2 g as dimagnesium malate (powder, Albion process, sourced from an equine supplier)
400 mg as KAL mag glycinate
300 mg as Waller Water concentrate (mag bicarbonate solution)
400 mg as mag chloride solution made from Mitoku brand "nigari" (mag chloride crystals used by the Japanese to coagulate tofu).
So about 3.1 grams mag total a day.

If I'm traveling, especially by plane, I'll leave the solutions at home and up the glycinate.

Speaking of traveling, since I carry a lot of white powder with me (and rarely check luggage), I put the white powders in a bottle that says potassium .... (i.e. some form of potassium) for the potassium powders and magnesium ... for the magnesium powder and leaving the taurine powder in its bottle. Then I put them all in a bin, out of my suitcase, where they can be easily inspected by the airport screener speeds my way through security.

George

Iatrogenia,

According to Dr. Moore (The High Blood Pressure Solution), the bicarb form of sodium does not appear to have the same BP issues as the chloride form. It is sodium bicarb in the product you linked.

George

Thank you for looking that up for me, George.

I don't have high blood pressure, fortunately.

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Lone paroxysmal vagal atrial fibrillation. Age 62, female, no risk factors. Autonomic instability since severe Paxil withdrawal in 2004, including extreme sensitivity to neuro-active drugs, supplements, foods. Monthly tachycardia started 1/11, happened only at night, during sleep, or when waking, bouts of 5-15 hours. Changed to afib about a year ago, same pattern. Frequency increased over last 6 months, apparently with sensitivity to more triggers. Ablation 6/27/13 by Steven Hao.

George - Good tip on your traveling with powders. When I travel, I put all of my supplements into labeled small baggies so I have just enough for the number of days traveling...which includes the powders and all of them in a large Zippered plastic bag. Several pounds worth. ... and I often worry that the powders might trigger suspicion...although not yet in 10+ years. Still the powders in bottles sounds like a better idea. I do not put them in the bin but leave in my carry-on. Quite possibly, little old ladies don't create a red flag... as now I don't even have to remove my shoes. Minor advantage to aging.

Jackie

Hi Jackie,

I've traveled with potassium chloride in a "salt shaker" and had them go search for it. After a few times of that, I just put it in the bin and started putting all of my powders out of my carryon and in the bin. It just made for smoother travel. A few times, I've had them test the bottles with their chemistry set, but not too frequently. I always worried about people questioning white powder...

George

George - that's interesting... All these years, I've not been pulled aside except for a look-see for bottles of Essential Oils... They then swiped my carry on bag and found some residue that fell under some 'hazardous' substance title but I showed them it was 5 ml bottle and the product flyer I always include in the bag and they let me through. They said some perfumes acted the same way. And fortunately, the delay didn't cause me to miss my flight.

I'll keep your suggestions in mind for my next trip. I'd be really upset to have my nutritional powders confiscated.

Thanks!
Jackie

Sam maybe it is something else upsetting your gut at night. I had to stop eating anything after dinner. I also cut down my supplements to only magnesium and possibly a digestive enzyme at dinner, but nothing after. I monitored my potassium levels very carefully many times throughout the day and night and found that I get lots of natural potassium in my food at my evenng meal, and my levels would rise to a peak at about 3 AM. I could even have them shoot over the desired 4.5 level at that time. So I found that to supplement with potassium in the morning and at midday is the best. When I am low I get a hard, but not necessarily faster, heart beat which is most noticeable when I am laying down. When the potassium levels occasionally get high it is a similar symptom, a hard beat, but it is harsher and I have learned to distinguish between the two.

Even though my gut is healing well, I still need to be very careful in the evening to not eat after dinner or take supplements at that time. The ablation is holding well, but if I am not disciplined I get an unsettled heart that feels like it could trip over into afib easily.

Just a suggestion. Consider cutting out everything in the evening.
Ron

Ever think of mixing a few bananas up in a blender with coconut water? Make a banana smoothie, should be all kinds of natural potassium in that mix.
You can even freeze the bananas first if you want it cold but you may want to use a vitamix for that.

Bananas are not necessarily good for afibbers. They are moderately high glycemic, of latex origin and are a highly hybridized, if not a gmo crop. Coconut water is nice, but high glycemic.

Ron please clarify about high glycemic and highly hybridized. and why its may not be good for Afibbers. I am also confused about the latex and do not know what that means. Is it like wheat as far as the cross mixing of plant genetics. I am very intrigued by your comments.

Ronbn,

Bananas are high glycemic, which means that even though they contain some potassium, the insulin response from their fast carbs will cause the body to excrete more potassium.

George

Eating the bananas with protein and fat will mitigate the insulin response.

Sam

Bananas are not a good choice for afibbers. Further to George's comment about the insulin response, the high carb content of a ripe banana comes mainly from fruit sugar (fructose) and lots of it. To metabolize that, both magnesium and potassium are used ...enough so that it may be considered counterproductive for afibbers. When treating hypoglycemia and adrenal fatigue issues, high carb foods and those with high fruit sugar such as banana, dates, oranges, apples, raisins, pineapple etc... are disallowed even if you do add protein and fat because it stimulates the metabolic activity just too much to be consistently stabilizing.

Coconut water is high in potassium, but you need to look for brands that have less than 4 grams of sugar in 8 ounces. That's often hard to find. Overall, juice is not a good food choice for afibbers especially or anyone who has glucose handling issues.

Jackie