Magnesium Hydroxide Q for UK folks please

I'm planning to get underway making and drinking WW, but am really struggling to find mag hydroxide here in the UK that DOESN'T have chloroform in it as a preservative!

Anyone here UK-based who can tell me where I can get some chloroform-free mag hydroxide please?? Obviously needs (?) to be pharma grade?

Failing that, can any of you guys and gals in the US maybe suggest to me companies over there that supply mag hydroxide without chloroform who could ship to me here in the UK???

Many thanks,

Mike F

When I looked for this some time ago I found a number of U.K firms, including Amazon, sold Phillips MOM but I see now that it's showing out of stock by almost everyone who used to sell it.

However - it's still showing on ASDA's website.

Sam - do you know of or have you investigated buying the bulk powder...pharmaceutical grade Magnesium Hydroxide?

If so, that would help Mike or anyone else wanting to make the WW. When Erling and I experimented making various batches, we used both the liquid MoM and the powder and each form works well.

Jackie

I purchase bulk pharmaceutical grade magnesium hydroxide for the making of WW from........ [purebulk.com]

It goes a long way if one is drinking a quart and half of WW a day. My initial purchase was for 250 grams and I quickly realized that amount will last a long time. I am pleased with both Purebulk personnel and product. Hope above helps.
Regards,
Larry

Larry's suggestion works out at £7.28 plus £11.09 postage (remember anything more than 500 grams will incur VAT plus an £8 Post Office charge).

For small amounts this might be the best we can do in the U.K.

Taycrest Chemicals is a local firm selling the product. I have no further details at present but Mike can contact them on sales@taycrestchemicals.co.uk for details of amounts and prices.

Sam

Mike

I have been making Waller Water for a long time using Milk of Magnesia. Last year it became hard to find so I stockpiled some, but when that ran out I was stuck. Couldn't find it anywhere.

The only place it was available was Amazon, who would ship it from the US at incredible prices, which I was not prepared to pay. I eventually got someone to send me some from the US, which was much cheaper, although the postage was still expensive.

I contacted the manufacturers in the UK several times. The said it was definitely coming back, and two weeks ago they said it was already in the warehouse so should reach the shops very soon.

Gill

Thank the EU regulators for the shortage:

<[www.dailymail.co.uk]

"Milk of Magnesia – used for generations to combat indigestion, ulcers and upset tummies – has been outlawed by the European Union because it contains a tiny bit too much sulphate.

Manufacture stopped in autumn last year, but the backlog of supplies was allowed to be sold.

Now stockpiles have dwindled and the product is selling for ten times its normal price on auction website eBay. Bottles of the beloved over-the-counter medicine – a solution of magnesium hydroxide – are selling for £20 online.

Manufacturers GSK are thought to be changing the recipe, so it contains less than 0.5 per cent sulphate – the EU limit."

A GSK spokesman said: ‘Recent testing showed that one of the ingredients in the product was not compliant with the European Pharmacopaeia sulphate limit test of 0.5 per cent.

‘While there is no safety issue for consumers, GSK has put stock on hold until this situation is resolved.'

‘We are working to make it available as quickly as possible.’

Hi folks,

Many thanks for the responses.

Just ordered a kilogram from the link Larry kindly provided (-: Even with the charges it still works out OK given the economies of scale - I'm thinking that a kilo will make a LOT of WW! By the way, just how much do I need to use of the raw powder per 1 litre of soda water (before diluting down 4 times) please anyone??

Cheers,

Mike F

Mike,

If you are using magnesium hydroxide Mg(OH)2 (molecular weight 58) then you would need to add 3.6 grams to 1 liter of carbonated water in order to end up with a concentrate containing 1500 mg of elemental magnesium. The bulk density of powdered Mg(OH)2 varies between about 0.4 g/mL and 1.0 g/mL, so 3.6 grams could be anywhere between 9 mL (2 teaspoons) and 3.6 mL (about ¾ teaspoon) depending on the fineness of the magnesium hydroxide powder.

Hans

Mike - in the post titled From UW to WW with love it says to use 3600 mg powder (about a teaspoon) per 2 liters concentrate.instead of 6 tbs MoM: [www.afibbers.org]

Further - the calculations that Erling used on the powder are as follows:

Laboratory grade Mg(OH)2 powder @ amazon.com -- $33.81 / 500 grams (about a pound)
[www.amazon.com]

Rough calculation : 24 cents per 2 liters concentrate -- about 1/4 the cost of the seltzer.

This is much less costly even than using MoM, and it eliminates the concern about sodium hypochlorite in MoM (bleach / sterilant).

Just be sure that your water is non-fluoridated. No sense adding that to the mix.

Jackie

Mike - Just as when we use the liquid MoM... not all of it will be fully activated and there can be sediment in the bottle... it's not a precision 'recipe'... the variance in powder's crystal size may allow for more or less activation...and you may end up with residue or sediment in the bottle. I shake mine again to see if more goes into solution and sometimes it does. If not, then the next time, just use a bit less powder. It's not going to matter much in the grand scheme of things.

On another note... Larry sent me an email alert...regarding my link in my post giving the Amazon link... Laboratory grade Mg(OH)2 powder @ amazon.com -- $33.81 / 500 grams (about a pound)
[www.amazon.com]

He says:
You might want to read further on the Amazon link which you referenced for the Magnesium Hydroxide Laboratory Grade Powder 500 mg ......Scientific Strategies refers to it as hazardous chemical, and further down on the site they clearly state that they only ship the product to registered business locations with a business address "NO RESIDENTIAL ADDRESSES". A residential address will be in direct violation of Scientific Strategies policies and the parties placing the order will be subject to potential legal action and will be reported to the appropriate authorities. Also a non-refundable $25 cancellation fee will be applied.

Some a-fibbers may over look that information prior to placing an order.

Thank you Larry for checking this out. Looks like the Pure Bulk link you provided is a a better option.


Jackie



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2013 09:29AM by Jackie.

Additionally, I corresponded with Erling about his purchase of the Amazon product and he says:

Amazon offers two Mg-hydroxide powders. For reasons stated by Larry, I chose the one by Scientific Equipment of Houston Mg-hydroxide powder is not a hazardous material, but the other supplier says it is and charges arm + leg to ship it E.W.

One thing not discussed in the bulk powder purchase is the source of the product... is it USA or China?

Jackie

The most recent batch of Magnesium Hydroxide that MWCF and I purchased through Pure Bulk was manufactured in USA. The prior batch originated in Israel.

At the bottom of Pure Bulk's home page under Customer Service, click on COA, and you will be provide a request form that will get you the Certificate of Analysis on any of their products. They are pleased to provide point of origin of their products over the phone also. Very helpful staff that provides good customer service.

With Jackie's guidance we have delved further into the Pure Bulk Magnesium Hydroxide purity. I have had a misunderstanding on pharmaceutical grade, and have thought 95% to 100% was the window of acceptability. WRONG The Magnesium Hydroxide which I purchased is US manufactured and has a 97.34% purity.

I recommend a quick e-mail to them requesting Certificate of Analysis prior to placing orders. They are responsive and COAs can be received within a day.
Larry

Larry,

My 1 kg of Mag Hydrox arrived yesterday. Are we OK with 97.34% purity?? Or are you suggesting that it's not good enough?!

Many thanks and a pols if my Q is a bit dumb! Just trying to be sure.

Mike F.

MWCF

Please allow me to begin with some background, following with an attempt to address your question.

At the time of my original post providing you with information on the pharmaceutical grade Magnesium Hydroxide which I purchase through Pure Bulk, a question was raised through some parallel off-board correspondence as to whether Pure Bulk's Magnesium Hydroxide is, in fact, pharmaceutical grade. I knew that at the time I was doing due diligence prior to placing my first order with Pure Bulk, I had queried the Internet to try to identify specification requirements which Magnesium Hydroxide must meet to be considered pharmaceutical grade. My takeaway was that purity requirements must be between 95% and 100.5%, and at the time I placed my order Pure Bulk's Magnesium Hydroxide at 97.34% met that requirement.

When the question of purity was presented to me in the off-board communication, I was in a situation requiring I be out of town due to family health issues, so just prior to my leaving I did a quick Google search on "pharmaceutical grade" to try and get clarity, and what came up was "99.9%" pure. I then posted on the board that the Pure Bulk Magnesium Hydroxide was 97.34%, and moved on with addressing the family issues I was undertaking.

Following my return home, I went back through notes which I had made prior to my first purchase from Pure Bulk, and refreshed my memory as to why I noted Pure Bulk's Magnesium to be pharmaceutical grade. I share that with you below. There may be some who will interpret the following information on pharmaceutical grade different than I, and if so, I hope they will join this discussion, that we might come to some agreement and bring closure. Now, to address your question.

My understanding is that the U.S.Pharmacopeial organization establishes the standards which help keep us safe. I quote from their web site ..."The U. S. Pharmacopeial Convention (USP) is a scientific non-profit organization that sets standards for the identity, strength, quality and purity of medicines, food ingredients and dietary supplements manufactured, distributed and consumed worldwide. USP's drug standards are enforceable in the United States by the Food and Drug Administration, and these standards are developed and relied upon in more than 140 countries." If I read correctly, the USP has established Magnesium Hydroxide pharmaceutical grade to have a purity of between 95.0% and 100.5%. (Pure Bulk's current offering is U.S. originated and 97.34% pure.)

I am listing several sites below for you to visit, providing you with the opportunity to read the same information as I. The first URL listed will take you to the U.S. Pharmacopeial organization's home page, and from there you can navigate within to develop your own understanding of what the specification requirements for pharmaceutical grade Magnesium Hydroxide are. The 2nd site clearly states that the USP has established pharmaceutical grade Magnesium Hydroxide to be between 95% to 100.5% pure. Following that web site, are a few other sites of companies who manufacture pharmaceutical grade Magnesium Hydroxide for market distribution, and Assays for each shows the USP purity specification requirements to be 95% to 100.5%.

Pure Bulk does not state the product to be pharmaceutical grade, for they list by purity percent. It is up to the consumer to know what the pharmaceutical grade specification requirements are and to measure their product accordingly. I personally have no problem with that approach. They gladly and very timely provide by e-mail a copy of the Certificate of Analysis for any product they offer.

Regards,
Larry

[www.usp.org]

(....note table 13.3 below, and then scroll down to last couple sentences before Bibliography)
[books.google.com]

[www.spipharma.com]

[www.anishchemicals.com]

[www.acegre.com]

(....click on their 370-S (HD) and T 10P pharma grades to open to assays)
[www.brenntagspecialties.com]

Please let me know what you think.

Regards,
Larry

Larry,

How can anything be 100.5% pure? I would have thought the upper limit would be 100% pure.

Hans

Hans,

Getting the language correct between purity and assay does not come easy for me. I want to say that purity would not exceed 100%, but that it is during the analysis process determining the purity that the assay specification window can be established above 100% to allow for margin of error in the testing method. I am not sure that there can be a value that can be measured with 100% accuracy due to acid or water content which might not completely dry during the process, thus creating the variability.

For me, language such as used within the "Clinical Standards" discussion at the beginning of the following editorial makes it all the more confusing, as purity is noted above 100%.

[www.google.com]

Then there is the distinction between content determination between active substance and active product. I interpreter product to be the final form ready for market made from the active substances. The below URL for the German Pharmaceutical Society specifications allow for 95% to 105%. The USP allows greater that 100% with the specifications for Magnesium Hydroxide product assay being 100.5%.

[www.google.com]

As your background is Chemical Engineering I surmise you already have the answer to your question, but have by asking, allowed for further and more meaningful dialog to take place on the topic. I believe you could bring clarity, and help us out here.

Larry

Larry,

As I stated nothing can be more than 100% pure. If each and every molecule in a sample of magnesium hydroxide is indeed magnesium hydroxide then the sample is 100% pure. If the sample contains molecules of impurities then it is less than 100% pure, but there is no way it can be more than 100% pure.

The confusion arises, as you point out, because laboratory tests are not 100% accurate. So if analysis of a product yields a value of say 99% purity then the result would be reported as 99% plus or minus 0.2% (or whatever, depending on the established accuracy of the test). Of course this could also be reported as the true value being between 98.8% and 99.2%. However, if the test result is 100% then it really does not make sense to report the purity as being between 99.8% and 100.2%. Nor does it make sense to give a purity range of 95.0% to 100.5%. However, it does make sense to speak of a specification range of 95.0% to 100.5% when analyzing the product using a test with an accuracy (usually 2 or 3 standard deviations) of 0.5%.

Your second google reference deals with acceptance limits or the allowable percentage of active compound in a pharmaceutical drug. It is generally in the range of 95% to 105%. This is not really related to purity as any tablet or capsule of a drug contains binders, fillers, colors, and other inactive ingredients and therefore never is “pure”. So, if a tablet of a drug weighs say 1000 mg and 800 mg of that is supposed to be the active drug then it is acceptable if the analysis shows a drug content of between 95% and 105% of 800mg or between 760 mg and 840 mg.

Hope this helps clarify this somewhat confusing issue.

Hans

Hans,

Yes, your comments do clarify the purity issue for me. I much appreciate the patience and time you have extended.

Regards,
Larry

Friends,

I've read through this thread several times, and am a bit confused. Could someone who has been using the magnesium hydroxide powder help me pull this together:

(1) How much powder per liter of seltzer water? (I don't have a metric scale, so teaspoon measurements would be more helpful.)

(2) Did we decide whether or not the powder from Larry's PureBulk.com source was sufficiently pure? If not, did we decide on a better source.

It might be nice--if anyone has the time--to do a revised and updated Waller Water instruction set, since magnesium is such a key aspect of our discussions, and health protocols.

Thanks!

--Lance



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2013 11:42AM by ln108.