Turn for the Worse - Too much Magnesium?

My afib has taken a turn for the worse over the couple of weeks - even more so in the last week. I've been a vagal afibber - until Wednesday when I had a 3 hour event in the early evening and then today a 4 hour event starting at noon. 1 night time event in between. Something has changed in a big way and I don't know what it is. The only significant change in my life was increasing Magnesium from 300mg to 900mg per day 5 weeks ago. I dropped back down to 300mg yesterday, so it is hard to imagine it is related to todays event (and I've never heard any negatives about Magnesium). Can't put my finger on anything else - I follow the strategy laid out by Jackie pretty closely. I was able to reduce afib from about 15% of the time 2 years ago to 1% of the time during the past 18 months. Now it seems back where it was - an immediate change - like a switch got turned on. And even 2 years ago it was rare that I had a daytime event.

I'll be calling my cardiologist on Monday and then schedule an appt with an EP. If the daytime events keep up, I'll be trying some meds very soon, as daytime afib is much harder on me emotionally and psychologically. I haven't taken them to date, and have assumed Flec is what I'd try if I was going that route, but now not positive given the daytime events. Ralph

Ralph,

Your situation sounds pretty close to what happened to me around August of last year. In March, I started taking magnesium regularly and saw some improvement in AFib (it was happening daily, mostly starting at night, and also sometimes starting up during the daytime). After starting magnesium I noticed episodes getting shorter. Then I started seeing a naturopath who put me on more supplements, and saw additional improvement, which increased over time. She also recommended I avoid MSG which I did. My episodes got shorter (they still started up at night, but often the AFib was stopping by the time I got to work). When I went to vacation in July, where I was really relaxed, I was actually not in AFib most of the time (I had only 2 episodes during that trip). However when I got back from vacation, my AFib slowly got worse and worse, and then, suddenly a switch was flipped and it was right back to where it was before I started taking the magnesium. At that point, I started my Flecainide prescription, which amazingly worked 100% (I honestly wasn't expecting it to work so well, and was expecting to just get some relief from it until I could get an ablation scheduled). It's worked 100% the whole time (except for one episode where I missed my morning dose two days in a row).

Like you, my AFib is mainly vagal. I have high hopes it will work well for you.

Diane

Magnesium supplements would bring on afib after a day or two....every time I took them.

Tom

Hello Ralph - Sorry to see your post because you've made such significant progress thus far.

It's not typical for magnesium in elevated doses to cause any problems other than the bowel tolerance issue...... unless you have kidney function impairment that allows magnesium to accumulate... then that can be a problem. Cutting back makes sense, of course. Most of us would tell you that we 'tinkered' a lot with dosing and flareups and diarrhea and so on until we found our Goldilocks dose. I think GeorgeN beat us all for war stories.

Another consideration would be the brand and form of your magnesium choice. Can you share that info?

Along with increasing the magnesium, where are you with potassium intake...either supplementally or from food?

I hope this settles down for you quickly; I know how disheartening a flareup is, believe me!

Best to you,
Jackie

Hi Jackie. Carlson's chelated magnesium from Han's store connection. Potassium levels have always been 4.5 or slightly higher, and high end on the exatest. I had bloodwork on Friday and it came back 4.5 again (3.5 -5.2 average). I have a big garden and eat lots of fresh organic vegetables and fruit daily, and I eat meat. My sodium intake is regulated - I don't eat much if any processed food.
I have no indications of a kidney problem in my bloodwork in any observable way.

The other thing I'm questioning is my HCL intake with meals, which I started 6 months ago - long before this flare-up. I'm not sure I'm needing it for digestion anymore, so I stopped taking it today. I know your theories about voltage and need for alkalinity, and though they don't make consistent sense to me (as I've stated before), I'm willing to try backing away from that.

Ralph

Thanks Diane - good to hear that Flec has worked so well for you. I'm still hoping to avoid it, but we'll see. Are you having any side effects? What dosage are you using? Ralph

Ralph, fwiw Flec 300mg Plus 40mg Diltiziam always worked for me as a PIP with no discernable side effects, well maybe I got tired sometimes. I would't want to do it every day necessarily. I chose abation 8 months ago and so far it has worked.

Ralph - The Carlson's is good... nothing else added. Good that you have not noted any kidney abnormality from your tests. And excellent that your potassium levels from natural sources keep your levels optimized.

As for the stomach acid issue.. If a person is unable to make stomach acid, then that complicates the entire problem and doing as you've done... adding the betaine HCl with meals is typically what's recommended by all the 'natural' doctors. I think stopping it to see what happens is good because if you irritate the stomach area with too much acid, then the vagus is in a constant state of hyperexcitability. This is a case of "experiments of one" type scenarios... we all respond differently. Keep in mind that if you low or deficient in the various essential nutrients required to support production of your own natural stomach acid (from parietal cells in the stomach), then the alkalinity from the WW at meal times won't be useful until you get that resolved.

As a step down from the betaine but still an assist... have you tried the organic apple cider vinegar approach...... diluted with water and with meals or after? Important to use organic since regular apples are among the most highly sprayed with pesticides so you want to avoid that exposure.

It's common knowledge that as we age, we lose the ability to produce adequate natural stomach acid. It's easy enough to begin adding in the nutrients needed to help encourage that natural production...... ie, iodine, a high B (complex) plus extra folate and, B12 as methylcobalamin, zinc. There is a new sublingual lozenge form (5,000 mcg) that is pleasant tasting, easy to use and given enough time, very effective.

The stomach acid deficiency problem with age is ongoing and places those deficient at risk for 'bugs' that enter our systems via the oral route. Stomach acid is as important as the skin for first line defense against harmful pathogens so it's not only necessary for digestion, it keeps us healthy as well. That's why the acid-suppressing type drugs are so detrimental when used long term and can set seniors up for serious infections.

I'm very confident that if you can find the right combination, your afib woes as related to the digestive complication will resolve.

Let us know your progress.
Jackie