I am new here

Hello, my name is Noreen

I am 54, single divorced Mother of 4 adult children (and 2 grandchildren ) and live with a friend in the state of Washington.

I have had, I believe LAF since 1994. I had one episode then and then I had one in 1995 after giving birth to my last child. I wasn't getting any sleep what so ever and I was exhausted. The doctor put me on diltiazem. I think I started out at 80mg (close to that, it was the lowest dose offered) and I am now on 360 mg at bedtime. I also take a regular 325mg of aspirin a day. I have also been prescribed and have taken 20meq's of Potassium daily and for about 20 years now. I had been previously on Multaq from April 2011 until September 2012. I would like to note that I had to come off the drug because I had taken on a whole new different kind of irregular beat AND I also received a phone call from the cardiologist telling me I needed to stop taking the medication immediately. He told me people taking the drug in bad health where dying I have had the irregular heart beats or PVC's or PAC's since I was a young child. I remember the doctor telling my Mother at one time that I was too hyper and I *sighed* to much. He said I was breathing wrong I have fixed that toooooo and still the irregularities visit me.

I also have GERD and had it before my first Afib attack. I had surgery for the GERD in 1996 and again in 1997 do to an accident where the surgery site was comprised and the surgery had to be done again. Then because I was allowed to go back to my Checker/Cashier job at major grocery store... I had acquired 3 abdominal hernia's along the surgical site *sigh*.... so then I had to have the hernia repairs. I now have 200 titanium screws that keep the mesh down that covers my abdominal wall. After that surgery I had to have my gall bladder removed. Currently I have not seen another doctor because I am scared. I kept trusting the doctors....and I normally ended up with issues that could have been prevented.

2.5 years ago I was hospitalized for in treatment for benzo use. BENZO's that I ONLY took has prescribed although it was for 33.5 years my doctor had me on them. With the help of a new doctor I was able to get off of these drugs. The doctor that prescribed them refused to help me, has he said I needed them. After coming off of them I could see the damage they had done ---> physically and mentally. I have lost 100lbs and mentally I am trying to get much of my memory back. I also have ADHD. Life is good and my goal now is to deal with this Afib. I have been told several reasons why I have it, including the benzo's......although NEVER had I seen anything regarding the GERD.

I mentioned what I have been challenged with above for history only. I was a victim for too long...and I have plenty stories to tell and have learned soooooooo much. I am a survivor... and I am going to do what I can do for myself, with OR without help from doctors who choose to ignore me and what I have to say.

Right now I am typing this and my heart is throwing off PAC's .... and I am frustrated because I want to go work out at the gym. I already have had to cancel the last 2 days of treadmill because of this. Although, I found this site 2 days ago and haven't stopped reading Thank you Jesus!! and Thank you everyone here!!

I started to cry when I read the literature here and gosh just everything about Afib. They are tears of joy and unreleased frustration. I have so much to ask about and comment regarding, and I am seeking some help just to start on my new journey in the right direction FINALLY to get me back to whatever good is going to be for me.... AND it will be better than what I have been going through.

I need some help regarding the Trio of Magnesium, Potassium and Taurine. Since I take the prescribed Potassium, do I keep taking that OR do I take the suggested amount that I have found here??? Since I know I have the GERD and stomach issues, does this change the course I need to take??? I am finding regarding my issues with my stomach, neither the cardiologists or digestive dr.'s agree my afib is brought on by the GERD or the constant bloating........and gas. My cardio dr. and his nurse tell me that I ask too many questions and tell me I am STILL neurotic after coming off the drugs I was prescribed. I have learned enough to walk away... and now I have procrastinated to long. I need to find a good EP and hopefully someone to help with the GERD. The one doctor I trusted is now 6 hours away and I can't go there.

I want to order the Trio has soon has I get the input on the potassium. I also need help with the Ginger. I am sorry this is so long.... it's hard for me since being off the benzo's to keep my thoughts to a minimum which in turn creates my novel of "war and peace" I have just written.

THANKS so much to you all and Hans!!!! YOU have given me hope and I am so very thankful

Noreen......SMILES!

Hi Noreen,

I am very new to this site also and feel the same way you do about it! I'm sorry to hear about all your problems. I am fortunate to have only afib, but I am in the same situation with my Drs. When I commented that the Multaq wasn't working and should I stay on it, my Dr. "shrugged!" and said yeah! Really! And before he came in his assistant sat down and before even asking me a question said I was a good candidate for ablation! Anyway, I have just started the vitamin regimen and I will follow your progress and report as well. Very, very good luck to you!!

Good Evening Louise

I am sorry to hear about your Doctor and Nurse I can tell ya.... they sure can make you feel uncomfortable. When I seen my therapist she told me that I should always keep in mind that I am hiring the doctor. He is suppose to be listening to me and also asking my questions. He is suppose to have a good reason why he wants me to take a medication or why he doesn't. She told me to remember that I was the employer and he was the employee. She said the same regarding the nurse. When I look at them like that it is a lot easier for me to say what I want and let them know I will be getting another opinion It sure has helped me.... in the past I wasn't so aggressive with the doctors and I just did what they said. I have learned that is never good for a lot of reasons.

I am pretty excited right now has I just came back from the local "Vitamin Store" (in a same town those are rare when we have the Walmarts and other stores with the pharmacies)... I was able to get "Doctor's Best Magnesium" there and was very tickled. They also had the other vitamins and supplements that where suggested although I need to find out how I should take them. The price was also higher, so I might still be buying from this site's Vitamin Store I noticed that everything was a tad bit more expensive although it is NICE to know that I will have a back up place to go to. I was also told that the owner was a Homeopathic Dr... something like that and to come into the store on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday and she/he would help me out with my questions. Then the store clerk told me she had afib... and using the same suggestions that are mentioned here, her's has been under control

Today, I also picked up a couple different types of Coconut water. I go to the gym 5-6 times a week for 2 hours and lately I have had to leave early because I start getting pac's. I sweat a lot and I believe I am losing some of my electrolytes... so I am hoping the coconut water will help. I tried the plain and it taste terrible although I am pretty sure I would swallow anything to help get rid of the pac's or a short round of afib. I think they use another word for premature beats here... and called ectopics?? I had never seen that word before until 2 days ago

Hope you are doing well so far with the vitamin regimen I think we will do just fine and I would be happy to hear how you are doing has well??

Thanks so much for the welcome too

~Noreen

Noreen,

You need to rethink your gym regimen.

Too much training is a recognised cause of Afib.

As a Gym Instructor the maximum amount of training I recommended was 45 minutes no more than every other day.

If you want any more advice please let us know exactly what you do in the gym.

Sam

Hi Sam,

I am 63 and was diagnosed w/afib in March 2010 during an annual physical (and holter monitor.) I have exercised since I was 29 -- aerobics classes, running, biking, weight training. I stopped running or any kind of jumping after back surgery in 2006, but continue to weight train and was walking fast 1 hour a day. Then I started a pet sitting business in 2007 and since I walk dogs a good part of the day, my "exercise" walks ended. Walking dogs is start and stop, so not very aerobic.

When I got my stress test in 2010, they put me on a treadmill and within a minute pulled me off and said my hr was 200! I swear I felt normal. If I wasn't in that situation I would have thought I was walking rather slowly and not breathing heavily at all. After that I've been afraid to exercise because I thought I wouldn't be able to tell if I was doing too much or not.

After a very disappointing few years with doctors, and finding this site, I have started a regimen as I stated above. I have also started to do a fast walk 30 minutes a day on the days I have time. I have heard that exercise can "re-set" your heart. I don't expect an immedidate result, but thought it might strengthen my heart.

I am in afib basicaly 24/7 and my pulse during the day is always around 90. My blood pressure has always been low and doesn't vary too much -- 90/60 to maybe 117/87. Since "triggering" afib really isn't an issue - I'm in it, do you think the fast walking may help? I know you are not a doctor and are not give medical advice; just thought you might have some experience with this. Thank you!

Louise

Sorry, Louise,

Exercising while in Afib is not something I can comment on.

I have paroxysmal Afib and the one time I tried exercising during an episode, just walking up and down the stairs at home, I really felt as if I almost killed myself.

However as far as permanent Afib is concerned if you Google "Can I exercise while in Atrial Fibrillation" you'll find quite a few Health Professionals who say you can and give tips on how to proceed.

Thank you so much for responding, Sam. I will google it!

Hello Sam

Thank you so much for your reply.

I would love some more information regarding my gym regimen. I get on the Treadmill and put it at about 13.5 and sometimes up to 15 percent/level for incline. Then I walk at speeds 3.0 to 3.5. I am burning about 900 to 935 calories an hour when I walk. I will do 1 hour and then leave. I then come back in the late afternoon and if I don't make it then I come back after 10 pm. I then walk for has long has it takes me to finish burning the 1600 to 1800 calories that I am aiming for. Normally in my first hour (and sometimes less, depends on how I feel) I burn anywhere from 500 to 1000. So when I come back I finish up the rest. Then after I am do with the treadmill I have been trying to do the machines for weights. I can only do about 10-40 pounds on the machines. I have back injury (C7 vert.) and its hard for me to lift. So.... I just go through all the machines that I can do which is about 16. I do 6-8 x3 reps. Sometimes I also do the bike and the elliptical trainer also.

I have been overweight for years....... for about 33 years. I have lost 100 lbs over the last year and half. I still have about 50 more to go. I have to tell you that the gym has been the only thing that has kept me feeling good about myself. I feel ashamed that I got so big and didn't realize it. I have been told there was a reason that I didn't although, I still was responsible for my health. I started out walking in the neighborhood... and then I would walk across town. I got up to walking 3 to 4 hours a day or 10-12 miles. After a year of doing that I started having problems with my knees/legs. I found out that if I walk on the treadmill it was easier on my body and it was last June that I started going to the gym for my walk. I noticed in November that the weight wasn't coming off. I asked for help and at the gym I go to they told me I needed to pay for the services of the trainer. I could not do that because I can not afford it. Paying for the gym membership was all I could afford. Anyways....when I work out I really sweat a lot. I don't start until about 20-25 mins into the walking.... and about 45-60 mins I am really sweating. When I leave I am soaked and exhausted. I drink G2 Gatorade to help replenish electrolytes because I gag trying to drink Coconut water. (suggestions for drinks to replenish would be great too!)

OK........I am tensing up because typing that out..... made me realize my regimen might not be so good for me. I welcome yours and anyone's suggestion/advice/opinion. Also... doing the gym that late in the evening has made it possible for me to fall asleep by 1:30 am. Normally I am awake until 4 am or later before I can sleep... so it helps me sleep a good 6-8 hours. IF no exercise I get 4 hours tops.

Thanks so much

Noreen



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2013 01:17PM by NoreenSmiles.

Jeez, Noreen. I just came home to have a bite to eat between dog walks and now after reading your post I am exhausted!

I have no authority to advise you, but your story reminded me of a man that used to go to our gym who was overweight and would spend HOURS on the stairmaster, treadmill, etc. and never lost any weight. He, too sweated profusely and I was really afraid he was going to pass out. A trainer said he was really over doing it and put him on a different program -- still stome aerobics and weights, but never hours at a time. He did slowly lose weight on the new program.

I know you cannot hire a trainer, and I certainly am not adivsing you -- I just thought of the similarities. Maybe Sam, or another trainer, could comment on "too much" aerobics and why it doesn't produce results.

Best to you,
Louise

Noreen - Welcome. I have such empathy for you. Your story just breaks my heart. You'll learn much priceless info here about arrhythmia and many associated ailments that can potentially contribute to arrhythmia... such as the GERD situation. There is a recent post on the Gut Connection to AF Revisited.... don't know if you've discovered it yet, but definitely worth your time. (link below).

You may not be aware, but the prescription potassium chloride that you have been using is known to cause gastric distress and even a potential for stomach and intestinal ulcers. Most of us here use the powdered version Potassium gluconate by NOW brands that you can order in 1 pound containers ...very economical... offered here at the Vitamin Shop link at the top of the page... Take it with food. It has much less tendency to cause stomach distress.. A teaspoon of the powder provides 540 mg. of potassium so you can calculate an approximation for your current dosing. Potassium citrate is another form that is also mild and is typically sold in capsules or tablets of 99 mg each. Additionally, there is a potassium amino acid chelated version, potassium glycinate that is very advantageous for transporting through to the blood stream and into cells. (by Solgar) in tablet form... I highly recommend that for anyone with stomach distress as a start.

Be aware that unless or until your intracellular stores of magnesium... is optimized, adding too much potassium can make arrhythmias worse. So, focus on magnesium and perhaps even back off a bit with your current potassium dosing until you make progress with the magnesium.

Check the following reports to help with your transition to the Essential Trio etc. Definitely ask for help. We are all here to help guide you.

Also scan the Afib Resources section for more reports and especially that on Taurine.

Best to you,
Jackie


The Gut Connection to AF - Revisited
[www.afibbers.org]

The Strategy - What Metabolic Cardiology Means to Afibbers
[www.afibbers.org]

Conference Room Session 72
Potassium/Sodium Ratio in Atrial Fibrillation (February 7 - June 11, 2011)
[www.afibbers.org]

Magnesium Absorption
[www.afibbers.org]

Common Foods Containg Potassium
[www.livestrong.com]

Louise, have you contemplated getting an ablation from a highly experienced EP?

Afound99, ablation was mentioned to me when I first got afib in 2010. I've never thought it was bad enough to really consider it, but lately it is 24/7; so I have been thinking more about it and also, since I found this site and have been reading everyone's posts about it.

My pcp has only referred me to cardiologists at UCLA Santa Monica, who I have no faith in. They refer me to their own department for echocardiograms, etc. but I have never talked to an EP and there isn't one listed in my insurance plan.

At this point, I am interested in the different kinds people have had and the success rate. I have read (not here) about non-invasive ablation, but haven't seen any postings from anyone who has had it (I don't think -- most of the posts sound like a many hours jprocedure and recovery period). I know nothing is certain or the same for everyone, so I am just taking in an much info as I can. Right now I have started the Strategy supplement plan, although I forgot to order Taurine from the site and cannot find it in a drug store. I will go a Vitamin Shop this weekend.

I just started this whole process after seeing my cardiologist a couple of weeks ago, so I'm sure it will be awhile before I see any difference with the supplementation.

Louise

Most people here get minimally invasive catheter ablation. It is really no big deal as far as the procedure is concerned, at least for most people. If a very experienced EP suggested it has a good chance of getting you into sustainable sinus rhythm, it would be very worth looking at.

afhound99,

Thank you. I will continue my regimen for now, but also will try to find out how I can see an EP here without paying a fortune to see him/her since I cannot find one in my insurance plan. It's amazing to me how UCLA does not even list ONE!

I appreciate your response!

Louise

Welcome to the site Noreen.

You said in one of your posts (I think it was on a different thread than this) that you were looking for a competent EP in Washington State. I don't know where in Washington State you live, but I know a couple of guys in Portland, OR, who I think are the best in the local area. I don't know how they compare with Natale Pinski though. Portland, OR is just over the border (just south) of Washington State. The doctors I'm referring to are Dr. Blair Halperin and Dr. Randy Jones of the Providence Heart Rhythm Clinic. They both do two/three ablations a week. I've never seen them mentioned on this forum (but then, again, you're the first person I've seen from the Northwest on this forum). I don't know much about the EPs in the Seattle area other than that a bunch of them do cryo-ablation rather than RF ablation.

Let me know what you find out about ablationists in Washington State. If there's a really good one in Seattle, I'd be willing to go to him.

Diane

Hello Jackie

Thanks so much for all the links I believe I already read most although I am going to read them again. I don't comprehend a lot of information longer than a few hours after I have read it. I know the information was very very helpful.

I can't believe my doctor didn't tell me about the ulcers. Well, I did leave out some information regarding ulcers, because I forgot I have so much history that I do that and I am sorry although I take a PPI called Prilosec for a recurring ucler in my duodenum. Oh yeah well, that darn thing gets a tad bit better and then I have to take the PPI Wow.......I am in tears... I feel like I allowed these doctors to control me. I am 54 years old and so frustrated. I need to get to a doctor although I tried going back to my family doctor and I chicken out. HE always tells me it is in my head The same with the cardiologists. He threw a fit when I told him the pharmacist told me the Multaq was dangerous for me to take. He told me the pharmacist didn't know what she was talking about

I am trying soooooooo hard to get back to good and I am getting frustrated. I need to lose more weight... and these darn pac's have come to challenge me again today Wednesday night I took 2 of the chelated mag tabs and I was so tired by midnight. I was shocked and I went to bed instead of staying up like I normally do. I slept 8 hours and that is a miracle. Then Thursday I was excited to take the new mag because of that and so I took 2 with breakfast and 1 with lunch and 1 with dinner. I had another wonderful except for those nagging thoughts regarding the afib Then today, Friday I took 2 at breakfast and then 1 with my lunch and 10 minutes later the pac's started again. It's now been 6 hours later and they are still coming and going. I am currently drinking my 3 tablespoons of Lemon juice and 1 heaping tablespoon of Honey. In the past taking this Lemon tea always brought relief. I don't know why although I suspect it has something to do with bringing the balance/or PH levels in my body.How long does it take for the Magnesium Chelated tablets to work?? I also wanted to let you know that I knew that my mag was low years ago although the doctor had me take Mag Oxide of what I have been taking recently which was the Mag Tabs Sustain Relief. I only took 2 in the morning with my Potassium. I vaguely remember talking to my doctor about what kind of mag to take and even shots and he told me NO... that my test showed I was just a little low and what he wanted me to take would work.

Did I mention that I have had the PAC's PVC's all my life. Well... they where only a few hear and there although to a young girl it was frighting. After I was married at 25 I would get them something horrible and I would end up sitting outside the ER. I would just sit there and pray (and cry too). I didn't want to go into the ER because I was a regular there. The nursed laughed at me and the same with the doctors. They would run a EKG and blood work. It was always the same remedy. "Noreen.... there is nothing wrong with you. You are throwing off a couple extra beats and we don't know why"...."your blood work shows your Potassium and Magnesium is low so we are going to give you them intravenously." Yepppers... every time and they stopped by the time they where down with the drips. I felt like such a crazy lady!!!

ONE day about 15 years ago... I was back in the ER. There was a NEW ER doctor and he looked at me and said..."Noreen, there is something wrong. YOU are not crazy!" He then said... "I went to check the records they have for you here in the hospital. NOREEN" he said "YOU have been coming to this ER for years... back to when you where a young adult with the same problems of the irregular beat!" YES I said... I have. He then said "It shows here that every time you are deficient in Magnesium and Potassium and the hospital gives you some intravenously." YEP I said...and then he asked me IF my doctor did any further blood work on me because of these low levels. I told him not that I knew. I was crying by this time and he told me HE was going to contact my doctor personally and let him know that he felt I needed those tests and I also needed to be taking more Mag and Potassium. Wow!!!!!!!!!!!! I was soooooooooooooo thankful for him. He was a Godsend!!! However my doctor did ONE blood test and told me that my levels where not low enough and I would be fine taking the Supplemental Mag and Potassium. Sooooooo the rest is history and STILL... I am battling the dang doctors.



Whenever I am NOT in irregular beats or Afib... I am so positive and good to myself about how I am going to handle them.... and then they come on and I lose it. I feel so ungrateful at times because I know others suffer so much more than I, and I am throwing a hissy fit! I keep thinking there is going to be some magical cure........and where is it??? I see others post about them being in permanent afib and it frightens me. I thought this was going to go away I am not sure what it means regarding me having GERD. I can tell you that right now I have burping, belching and nausea, and so much gas. My throat is even getting raspy a bit again when I wake up and I know that the darn wrap (around the esophagus) is very very loose or has come undone and I am scared to see a doctor. I am afraid I will die in surgery again. My stomach is so messed up since those shelves fell on me and I had to have the repair done all over again AFTER opening me up from my chest to my belly button. Do you know I didn't sue Sears because I thought it was just an accident and Sears NEVER bother to follow up with me. That accident happen 6 months after the Lapp Nissen for the Gerd and Hiatal Hernia repair. I was 38 years old when I had the initial surgery in 1996.

I am sorry this is so long again. I have to tell you that the tears I have cried writing this has made me feel better

I shall stop now and hope this isn't to boring. Thanks so much for listening to my story. I REALLY do appreciate you taking the time to respond to me MORE than you know Thanks so much ALL of you!!!

Noreen

Noreen, my heart breaks for you. My pharmacist aslo told me Multaq was bad for me to take with Pradaxa, but the Drs. just ignore it! I stated in a previous post that I went off Multaq a couple of weeks ago, because I didn't think it was working. I am on the Strategy program, but have started taking 1/2 a Multaq again because it seems I am aware of the afib more, but I really am not sure if going off the Multaq was the cause or not. I hope not to take it for long.

It is quite awful when doctors tell you you are crazy or it's all in your head. My theory is that if they cannot help you, their egos are so big that they have to think it must be all in your head. Please don't beat up on yourself anymore! You are going through enough without thinking it is your fault. With your tenacity and constant searching for answers you sound like one of the strongest people I have ever heard of. So give yourself that. I really, really hope you can get more 8 hours nights of sleep. That would probably help everything to an extent. My best to you, Louise

Noreen,

My heart goes out to you. When the folks who are supposed to help us - the doctors - instead make things worse, it's hard to know where to turn. So glad you found this site. It's been a Godsend for me.

Noreen,
Wow! I was stunned when I read you exercise regimen! You're a tough lady to have survived that for so long.

I wish I was there to personally train you but as it is all I can do is give you some guidelines, tell you what I'd do if I woke up one morning and found I'd been doing what you're doing and leave it to you to make the decisions.

1. Losing weight is achieved by dietary changes rather than aerobics.

2. Aerobics have been around for long enough now to show the long term effects and some of them are quite worrying with reports starting to appear of possible damage to muscles, joints and the heart. (Dr Mercola's website is one that advises against prolonged exercise sessions).

3. Interval training is more effective for fitness. An exercise bike is best for most people - easiest on the joints. These workout only last about 15 minutes and are done a maximum of 3 times a weeks. We may come back to this later.

4. Good fitness levels can be achieved through weight-training on its own. The gym where I was an instructor had a '95' club. 95 was the maximum fitness score that could be achieved on a Nautilus bike. There were 5 members and I was one of them. I had not done any training except weight training for years.

So what would I do in your position?

I would gradually decrease my training over a period of 3 - 4 weeks. To stop abruptly would NOT be advisable!
I would fairly quickly stop the the second session of the day and the number of days I used the weight training machines. (weight training is effective in losing weight because it builds muscle which is metabolically active 24/7). Training breaks down muscle fibres which grow bigger and stronger during your rest days.

I would keep a detailed log of exactly what I eat and how much and see whether there are foods or amounts of food that should be changed or reduced to very gradually lose weight.

I'll come back and give you my own training routine. 2 sets are usually enough of 10 -12 reps. I train 3 days a week, working half the body each time i.e. each muscle group is worked 3 times a fortnight. I do a total of 11 exercises which covers the whole body. I start with a very light warm-up set and then do 1 or 2 working sets. I never strain, always breathe through my mouth & move from one exercise to the next without resting. I am not soaked and exhausted when I finish! I did work a lot harder in younger days but I now accept that I'm 66 with a heart problem.

Louise,

If I lived in Los Angeles, I would try to get an appointment with Dr. Kalyanam Shivkumar, M.D., Ph.D. He's one of the EPs who has participated in the FIRM (type of ablation) trials and is a professor at UCLA.

http://people.healthsciences.ucla.edu/institution/personnel?personnel_id=9273

Buster



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2013 01:24PM by Buster.

Buster, thank you soooo much. What great info. NOBODY at UCLA even mentioned this man OR this department! I am going to contact my pcp next week and see if he can refer me. Thank you again. Where do you live? I can't believe that someone who doesn't even live here referred me here and no one in the UCLA Medical Group has.

Hans, none of us can thank you enough for this site. Louise

Diane98683 Wrote:

You said in one of your posts (I think it was on a different thread than this) that you were looking for a competent EP in Washington State. I don't know where in Washington State you live, but I know a couple of guys in Portland, OR, who I think are the best in the local area. I don't know how they compare with Natale Pinski though. Portland, OR is just over the border (just south) of Washington State. The doctors I'm referring to are Dr. Blair Halperin and Dr. Randy Jones of the Providence Heart Rhythm Clinic. They both do two/three ablations a week. I've never seen them mentioned on this forum (but then, again, you're the first person I've seen from the Northwest on this forum). I don't know much about the EPs in the Seattle area other than that a bunch of them do cryo-ablation rather than RF ablation.

Diane

Hi Diane

Thanks for the welcome

Yeah, do you live in Washington State too????

Thanks for the information regarding the EP's. I don't know of any here in Washington around the areas that I live or am close to. I live in a little town called Enumclaw. It is about 14 miles SE of Auburn, Wa and about 35 miles SE of Seattle. The little town of Enumclaw is the Gateway to Mt. Rainier on one side of the Mountain.

Where do you live???? and do you have a good cardiologist???

and what is cryo-ablation and why do they do it rather than the RF ablation??

Noreen

Hi Louise

Thanks so much for your kind words

I have to tell you that I was told again AFTER I stopped taking it that it was a drug of concern and there where a few lives that had passed on while on the drug. NOW... those that passed while taking the drug where to have had serious heart aliments other than the afib. I can also tell you that the irregular beat that I got while taking the drug hasn't been back since off of it. The irregular beat was a direct cause according to my Cardio Doctor and it was recorded on a holter and it was called something other than afib. At the time once again I was told NOT to worry.... HA! I also FEEL much better off of the Multaq I remember I was afraid I would get another round of it when I weened myself off and I didn't. I didn't even have PAC's either. Before that he had me on 2 other kinds and one was the Metaphol or something like that. I have seen it mentioned on the boards here a lot and I can tell you, YES... it did create AFIB for me Those where some of the worse attacks I had had on that drug. The other one, which I can not remember my blood pressure went so low that I started blacking out. I had been rushed to the ER once again and was told my blood pressure was to low so I was told to just STOP taking it. *Sigh*......it doesn't matter what the drug or vitamin you are taking, never abruptly stop taking. I however followed his direction because I didn't have anymore pills and sure enough back into the ER I was again. This time.... I was given 10 pills of which I use to ween over 5 days. Something like that and when I was done my heart beat was come and go wacky although I didn't go into another afib attack with 200 to 300 beats per minute

anyways.......just my 2 cents on what I dealt with.... I know it is very hard to decide what is ok for us and what isn't.... Gads... today again around noon my heart started beating off its course and I realize it was time to take my Mag tabs and I was scared to take the 2 I needed to take. Mind you, it was the dose on the bottle and I had not even reached the 6 tabs a day... sooooooooooo I had to tell myself over and over it was OK.... and 30 minutes after I took the two, my heart was beating in NSR with NO Pac's I am so hoping the supplements are going to help me out

Hope your weekend is going well?? *Hugs*

Noreen

Hello Sam

Wow!!! thanks so much for the post regarding my exercise regimen

I must tell you that I have NOT always been that stubborn with my exercise has I am now. Only the last few years have I been doing that much. I have had so much weight to lose.

I am currently taking in about 1600 to 1800 calories a day. I understand that there are 3500 calories that make up a pound.... and metabolic rate (I can't remember the full name or correct name, although its the BMR I think)..is about 1600-1700... so that means to me that I can eat that much a day and in order to take off a pound I need to exercise. The calorie count I look to take off a day is about 1750. That would make it 3500 in 2 days and I would lose about 3 pounds a week. Before I go any further... can you tell me IF what I have just type is correct???

regarding the weights... do you mean the machines or actually weight lifting. I use the machines and am only able to do 10 to 30 and one at 40 pounds. I have had a fracture of the C7 and have been told NOT to lift...... and so I get around it with the machines. I know I am still lifting or working the muscles although, it does feel different to me.

With the Afib issues, I feel that I need to get more weight off so my heart and perhaps the vagus nerve can rest I remember the heart doctor telling me that my weight would make the Afib worse. Sooooo this is a very big concern to me. I had no idea that with Afib you where not suppose to exercise, I had thought exercise what good for the Afib and over all general health???? I am so glad you all have this information that apparently my medical doctors don't care to elaborate with me on.

Also...I can get the names of the machines and/or a picture of them. The gym I belong to has a website and videos etc showing the members how to use the machines. YOU know what... NO where in the gym do that have a place or do the trainers stress doing before and after stretches. When I had belong to a gym back in 2002 through 2006.... I would go there and look at the wall post with the demonstrations of the stretches to do... and I did them. I am not doing this at the new place and I feel like I am causing some issues with my hamstring and also shoulders.

I went to Walmart today and bought 2 journals. One for my Afib documentation and One for my weight loss.... so I will start tomorrow putting entries into my journal that will show exactly what I am eating, and how much exercise I am doing. The other is for my Afib to track when I get the irregular beats/and or Afib. This alone should help a lot for me

Thanks so much, I look forward to your reply Hope you are having a great weekend

*Hugs*

Noreen

Hello Nancy

OMGosh....!!! was reading your thread and gads... My heart goes out to you *Hugs* I am so glad you where assertive in getting your liquids and magnesium a big KUDOS to your friends too!!!! I have sisters that might do that for me, although no friends

I hope you are feeling better?? and I hope they can tell you why you have the clots in your lungs??? May the Good Lord wrap his arms around you and comfort you while he gives those doctors a kick in the &%$ May he show them how to act with empathy and compassion for their patients. May he comfort you in knowing that all is going to be OK has only He can do

I have to say, you handled the situation a lot better than I would have. There was a time they locked me in the maternity ward because I was yelling so loud and disturbing the other patients. Ha! I was in labor and someone told me it wasn't going to hurt I threaten the doctor with my IV and in turn he threaten NOT to give me the epidural I was waiting for.... HE one that round because I wanted that epidural lol

Hope you are getting some rest tooo!!!!

Thanks so much *Hugs*

Noreen

Noreen, are you on a low carb diet? That will drop weight big time.

Noreen,

Yes, I do live in Washington State. I live in Vancouver, WA, which is the south end of Washington State. Blair Halperin is my EP (one of the doctors at the Providence Heart Rhythm Clinic). I currently plan to have him do my ablation when I need one, but am open to going to someone else who's known to be very good. Unfortunately all the "rock star" ablationists I hear about on this site require a plane ride to get to, which is something I'd rather not have to deal with when getting an ablation.

Cryoablation is a newer ablation procedure that uses a balloon catheter that makes lesions by freezing rather than burning. I read from the 2013 AFib Symposium that more and more people are using it, and its complication rate is going down since people are getting more practice with it. Maybe it's worth waiting for this technology to mature and use it instead. Apparently a lot of the EPs in Seattle are using it. That is only a 3-hour drive for me.

Diane

afhound99 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Noreen, are you on a low carb diet? That will drop weight big time.

Hello Afound99 (is the AF for Afib...?? )

No.... I don't think so

Breakfast is a Bagel and no-fat cream cheese (some days 1/2 cup of oatmeal with 1/2 cup skim milk)

Snack: Banana

Lunch: yogurt and an apple

Snack: Protein bar (after the gym)

Dinner: Chicken (always.... every now and then fish), Brussels Sprouts and/or Broccoli, or Carrots

Snack: Orange

sometimes I am up past midnight (which is a lot of the time) and I get hungry again so I will have shredded wheat or I take half of my banana then.

I don't count carbs, although I do look for fat. I have to be careful with the vegetables, like the brussel sprouts have to be fresh and cooked or steamed, same with the broccoli because if I ate them raw I would have so much pain (gas) and it doesn't subside for 2-3 hours.

Do you have a suggestion?? for a low carb diet?? I can do that for a month or two???

Thanks so much for your reply

*Hugs*

Noreen

Good Evening Diane

Oh wow!!! I felt so hopeful when you explained the difference between the ablations I think if you are able to wait that you are correct, they will have the technology to make the procedure "a cure" perhaps??? I have a strong feeling that it will not be long before there is something they can do for everyone.

Have you researched any of the Seattle doctors??? is there something I can find out for you???? what about the U. of W.???? I remember when the selves came tumbling down on me in the Sears store that I had to go see an expert there. He was suppose to check me out and do my surgery again, although with a repair to the original site. He, however said it was tooooo risky and I had to go to yet another specialist who had to open me up. I LOVED that doctor, he was very compassionate. Anyways, I keep getting refer to the UW... although I am skittish still regarding doctors. I can see one thing I haven't done that is suggested over and over here, and that is to research what the findings are with all that has been found and uploaded to the site. YOU guys are just amazing!!!

Please let me know if there is something I can do, I would be happy to help I might not be able to come up with an idea right now although if you have one that I can follow through with, I will

and I live about 1 hour from Seattle, and about 2.5 hours to Portland for me

*Hugs*

Noreen

Noreen,
If you give me that website I'll tell you which machines (weights or machines basically the same thing, they're all weightlifting) I would use. The weight you use is not important as long as the first set is very light and the 1 or 2 work sets can be lifted comfortably. If you've been lifting for some time it's a bit late to tell you that you should have started the work sets also very light and very gradually increased the weights. If you lifted quite heavy (for you) weights from the beginning that could have caused some muscle or joint pain and you may have to ease of and start again. Don't do any lifts that hurt you.

What is the C7 injury you got and what treatment have you had for it?

BMR = Basal Metabolic Rate which is the number of calories you use at complete rest. Sounds very useful in theory but I've never paid much attention to it. We're all different but charts give this figure the same for everyone - apart from distinguishing between men and woman. To give you one example here - muscle uses 3-5 times as many calories as fat at rest so a muscular person will be burning a lot more calories than a non muscular person of exactly the same body weight. A mirror, scales and a tape measure are the way to check your progress. Any yes 1lb = 3500 calories.

Some people advocate stretching before or after training but personally I never did and never had any problem. More important it your lifting style; very smooth and through a full range of movement.

Regarding Afib and exercise - moderate exercise good; too much exercise very bad is the general rule.

Noreen, yep AF in Afhound is for Afib but touch wood, since I had the ablation October of last year, I haven't had any AF, just some runs of skipped beats from time to time that typically coincide with being dehydrated. As for Low Carb, sure you can do it for a few months. Here's a link to a popular site. The main thing is to lay off grains and starchy food or budget how much of it you eat. [www.proteinpower.com]

Hello Sam

Here is the link regarding the equipment I am able to use at the gym

AnytimeFitnessExerciseEquipmentVideos

Also I just started the lifting. I only do 10-20 for most and then using legs I am able to do up to 50-70. Arm curls also at 40-50.

I fractured the C7 They where going to do surgery until the MRI showed something and I was having trouble with the pain so the surgery was cancelled. I was in a outdoor rocking chair and I went to rock backwards in it and the chair flipped over and my neck snapped up against the wood fence in my back yard. My children had broke the chair and where afraid to tell me because it was a new lawn rocker... so they all sat there and watched me get hurt. Then 2 weeks later I was bringing my daughter home from her chemo session and we where rear-ended. They feel that the accident completed the fracture or created it because there was already a weak spot.I apparently also have some spinal degeneration (normal for aging)... although accompanied by Spinal stenosis and was told at one point I would need surgery *sigh* ... I have pain although I deal with it. I can still walk... and that's why I liked to walk. My legs feel like concrete when sitting or standing, it often takes me 2 mins to be able to stand up straight... and once I get going I am fine, although once I stop it seems everything tightens up and locks.

OK.... hope you had a good weekend

Noreen

Hello Afound

thanks for the advice regarding the low carb diet

I started researching today and realized when I lost the most weight I was actually do low carbs and didn't realize it. In the last 6 months I slowly introduced back bread, sugars... and FRUIT (I love it).... and I was not losing so much weight while I was staying at 1500 calories a day. I read that, of course, I was doing it wrong and it makes sense Sooooooooo starting Monday I am back on the low carb diet. I also believe I had less premature beats while on the low carb diet

I wonder if there is a preference to what diet we should follow for Afib or irregular/premature (which feel like Afib a lot of the time)???

Hope you had a good weekend

Noreen

Noreen - The best approach to any new changes in diet and lifestyle are to take the turtle approach... very slowly but steadily reaching the target or goal.
This is especially true with magnesium. You should ramp up the dosing slowly but steadily.

With the sample eating plan you listed, consider that you're taking in a considerable amount of high glycemic foods... especially fruit sugars. While fruit is healthy, during the transition to getting your metabolism adjusted so you don't have high glucose and then high responding insulin, it's better to focus on proteins and healthy fats and only small amounts (if any) of fruit. Otherwise, you'll be getting rebound effects from low glucose after the insulin response. Cut back slowly and add more protein... eggs, chicken, fish, and be sure to take Omega 3 Essential Fatty Acids (fish oil) to help stabilize your blood sugar. You'll have to tinker. Starches and even the milk sugar in yogurt can be too much carb intake.

When you are ready for more reading...it's important to understand about insulin...so read this by the Insulin Expert, Ron Rosedale, MD. Insulin and Its Metabolic Effects [www.afibbers.org] This is a start. There are other very valuable reading resources... such as what's contributed by George N and the ketogenic diet explained by Dr. Richard K Bernstein ... read here and do a search for George N's many posts on his success with ketogenic eating. [www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com]

Remember that an injury to any of the upper cervicals will directly influence the vagus nerve and an irritated vagus is a primary contributor to AF. I realize you had no control over the injury, but treating it can be both a concern and may even be a continuous trigger until the vagus impingement is relieved and the overall spinal alignment error or Subluxation is managed so that your Autonomic Nervous System is balanced.

Be mindful of the very wise advice you have received on too much exercise. That's an additional stressor that your body may not be able to handle especially now that you have the stress from the injury.

I wish you well, Noreen.
Jackie


I'd also like to comment that an ablation is anything but "non-invasive." They introduce catheters in your grown area which travel up to your heart...into the heart and then puncture the dividing tissue between the heart chambers (the septum) and then perform many, many burns inside the heart to destroy the cells causing the aberrant conduction.

Jackie, thank you -- I have always thought ablation was major surgery, but some people here seem to have a "go get one" attitude. Maybe I am misinterpreting -- also, there is no way I can read every single ablation experience. There do seem to be very different ways to perform an ablation, which I am far from understanding.

I am going to go get an echocardiogram soon, to make sure there hasn't been any damage to my heart either from the afib or medications (my last one was perfect in 2010.) Then I would like to make an appointment with the Cardiac Arrythmia Center here in L.A.; but I'm only going because I have never talked to an EP, only cardiologists, who, as Han has said, only give drugs.

I am taking 500 mg of magnesium daily, and the powder Potassium. Should I wait until I can "easily" tolerate 600 mg of magnesium before I go to 1500 Potassium? I am currently just taking the tsp of Potassium twice a day. I'm also taking D3, CoQ10 and 3000 units of Omega 3 fish oil. I have also stopped taking calcium (and eating yogurt for breakfast), and although I cheated this weekend, I have given up cheese as well. (Also 1/2 dose of Multaq and Pradaxa). I guess I just want to know if I'm on the right track.

Louise

Right, ablation is not major surgery by one definition but as far as calling it minimally invasive which they do, I guess they mean by that they are able to just open a couple of veins to gain access. But then as Jackie says, what they do after that sounds scary. I guess I did have almost a 'just go do it' attitude as I calculated, I think, rightly, that my risk was low - less than 1% or so - and the reward was high if it worked, which so far it has. There are also risks in the drugs and from continuing in AF. Curiously enough I was in day surgery today for a hernia repair and one of the nurses had had a failed ablation and was back on Fleccainide. I know nothing more about that situation but I think my own decision on an ablation was based on a normal echocardiogram, good health apart from the AF, the fact the AF was paroxsysmal and that a regular Pulmonary Vein Isolation would likely, if well executed, do the job. I also went to a very good EP Lab (Mass General, who host the AF Symposium) and an EP that trained with Natale in Cleveland and as been doing ablations 3 days a week for 5 years, which I judged to be enough experience in my case. So I don't think ablation is a no brainer by an means but if you factor in that the drugs might stop being effective, along with the other factors, it might even be the "Gold Standard' for removing AF if there is such a thing (and that is exactly what my EP called it).

I didn't like the idea of a needle going through from right to left atria either but these guys are very compentent technicians and know what they are doing (the good ones) and the heart is a pretty tough hombre! (Just doesn't stand up well to the AF Demon sometimes, which is why it need some help lassoing the Demon off)

Thanks for the website. Looks like a first-class gym.

On the C7 injury. Have you tried going to an Osteopath or Manipulative Therapist to get a diagnosis/prognosis from a source outside mainstream medicine? I would certainly recommend that. I successfully treated many hundreds of spinal problems in my career and mainstream medicine had given up on the most of these.

Workouts - I would train 3 times a weeks, working half the body each time. On each exercise I would do one VERY light set, wait 15 seconds; do a heavier set (increase the weight very gradually always using weights I can lift comfortably and stopping immediately if there is the slightest change in heart rhythm); rest 1 minute and do another set at the same weight. Move to the next machine without rushing and repeat.

Exercises - Workout A e.g. Monday 1. Leg Extension Machine. 2. Seated Leg Press.3. Seated Leg Curl Machine. 4. Seated Calf Raise Machine. 5. Hip Adduction Machine. 6. Abdominal Crunch Machine. All sets of 12 reps.

Workout B Two days later. 1. Chest Press Machine 2. Shoulder Press Machine (Always pressing with both arms.) 3. A Triceps Press Machine (Always both arms). 4. Biceps Curl Machine (The first one on the website - both arms at once.) 5. Isolation Front Lat Pulldown Machine (Both arms together) 6. Back Extension Machine (Be careful with this one and don't do it if it hurts (This applies to all the machines). All sets 10 reps.

Do Workout A 2 days later and Workout B the following Monday.

Hope that's all clear.

Louise... as for introducing potassium after tolerating 600 mg magnesium... my advice has always been to start with low doses of potassium after you have been ramping up the Mg dosing for several weeks at the very least. I wouldn't use 1500 mg the very first time... .since you are tolerating the current dosing... coast a while with that before adding more potassium...but all the while, keep ramping up the magnesium until you find the dose just before the bowel tolerance issue.

Whether to get an ablation right away is often a highly-personal decision. It's understandable that in some cases, people need to get back to normal as quickly as possible and trust that the ablation offers that. Others prefer to try to correct the deficiencies and imbalances that underlie the AF occurrences... often, lifestyle and dietary changes reverse the trend fairly fast. It becomes a personal decision as to what you can and want to do and how much you can tolerate. The only rule I see as imperative is that when you do choose an ablation, do it with one of the "Elite" EPs who has the excellent reputation for an abundance of safe and successful results.

If you think you are trending toward the ablation procedure, then do your homework to learn what's covered by your insurance and if you have a choice of going to the EP you'd prefer. With the changes in the Affordable Healthcare Act looming large, it would be prudent to really delve into all of the pitfalls early on rather than be surprised that you either can't go where you choose or the cost/coverage has become yet anothe issue.

As reassurance for the procedure, itself...while it sounds 'scary'... and it is invasive, in the hands of a highly skilled EP, it should be a non-event. When I had my Natale ablation almost 10 years ago, the procedure was definitely different, but even then, he was highly experienced and I was actually surprised at how 'easy' it was. I felt amazingly well the next day and had no afib or ectopy whatsoever.

Jackie

Louise - I had A-Fib & am recovering from a stroke on 3-12. I ended my A-Fib with magnesium glycinate, taurine, CoQ10, & low sodium V-8 juice as verified by 24 hour Holter Monitor under VA care. I did not use potassium because an overdose can damage the kidneys. I did eat potassium rich foods so it is important to get enough of it from food. Always mention the type of magnesium used & use it in divided doses instead of all at once. Taurine is the most important supplement to end A-Fib.

Thank you Jackie and James! I am feeling very optimistic about the supplement strategy right now and will continue for several months. I really don't want to get an ablation. I have afib 24/7; however I feel extremely fortunate after reading some of the horrible experiences other people have gone through. I have never gone to the emergency room or into the hospital and my life is quite normal. I actually could live like this forever, but do not like taking anti-coagulants.

I also was concerned as to whether having afib "weakened" the heart in any way; so I had another echo-cardiogram last Wednesday (the last one was in 2010) and my heart is still perfect in every other way.

So, no more doctors for me for the next 6 months and then I will "review!"

Louise

Louise - Be sure and pay attention to Jackie's advice. She was an RDN. I too wanted to avoid ablation & taurine was the answer. Its both a diuretic & a calcium channel blocker without side effects which cannot be said for the drug companies products. Why is that important? It keeps your heart & arteries from becoming calcified. If you take calcium, include vitamin D & magnesium or only take it as part of a bone loss formula. A-Fibbers should not take it alone.

Please read Han's write-up - 12 Steps To Treat Your LAF (Lone A-Fib). Avoid all the A-Fib triggers. Use only the magnesium glycinate form of magnesium with the Albion certification on the bottle. All others have a laxative effect. Mainstream US medicine says your stroke risk increases 5X but overseas research does not concur for patients with LAF only. The VA said I had to wait 6 months for an ablation but by then I had "cured" my A-Fib. They also may offer you a drug that has a 5% risk of death. Be sure an add nuts to your diet for the magnesium & potassium they contain. I've revamped my diet to plants only.