To those who've had ablations - did it help enough to make it worth it?

Hello - I just added to my recent post about having more afib this month than is typical, and the concern that Flec may not be working so well anymore. Probably more than at any other time, I am more seriously contemplating an ablation.

I'm just putting some "feelers" out there right now...how many of you who have had ablations, feel that it was a good move, and how many wish they hadn't done it? I know there was one post here a few months back of someone who had a terrible outcome - all kinds of problems - and of course, that weighs on my mind. I'm hoping that is a very rare occurence...

I am hearing that doctors may be close to only having to do one ablation to get the result that often take 2-3 ablations, but have no idea how close they are to being able to do that.

I should go back to my doctor and get checked out again as it's been a year....not sure if should go to my cardiologist, who I've seen most often as she's nearby, or my EP who I've only seen twice (and while I like him, I would probably not get an ablation with him...prefer one others have recommended).

I am in afib right now and am wishing this would just GO AWAY! ~ Barb

Ablation in Bordeaux January 2003, now into my 10th year of nsr. Gave me my life back, best thing I ever did.

Gill

I also would be interested in the answers to that question Tobherd. I hope many more people respond.

I am on Tikosyn since December and in NSR.... have a few hiccups now and then but essentially full NSR but have no idea how long it is going to last.

From where I sit, I would personally have an ablation myself if I was sure that it was experienced hands and a good hospital. I am fortunate to be under the supervision of one of the best EP's in the business who trained with Natale at Cleveland. MY ISSUE is that my previous cardiologist was a quack more concerned with vacations and pushing big Pharma and colonics (?) and he frittered me around for about a year. When I went in to see him I was showing a left atrium at around 50mm; a year later in 24/7 afib I was at 60mm. and the new EP would not do an ablation until I was at least below 55mm. and preferably in the 40's. Hence the Tikosyn and Electrocardioversion.

I truly believe that if it were not for the friends on this board getting me educated in aFib, I would probably still be in aFib despite the TIKOSYN. I supplement to the nth. degree and in especially Magnesium, Potassium, Taurine, CoEnzyme Q10 Ubiquinol and the others. I am sure that this has had much to do with the success of the TIKOSYN and the ECV returning me to NSR and keeping me there.

So, bottom line, I have not yet had an ablation but you may rest assured that I will scratch and claw my way onto the list to have mine done as soon as I am a candidate.

I am finding that after starting the TIKOSYN I am no longer short of breath, no longer catastrophically fatigued, no longer have the pounding in my chest, etc. However, I wake up groggy whether I have slept 10 hours or two hours. And it takes an hour or two to clear my head. I still have the odd 'bad day' where I just want to lie about and rest, read a book, watch a movie, etc. (I am still relatively young at 60 but guess I am no spring chicken any longer.... the octogenarians on here will fry me for this.)

Ablation is a very personal decision that only you can make. I will scratch and claw my way onto the list but as long as the TIKOSYN is working for me I think I will consider postponing as the technology and the art improve. Remember that not much more than ten years ago there was no ablation to be had. It is a relatively new process and in due course I feel it will mature to the extent that drugs will no longer be a consideration in aFib.

Whatever you decide to do, you are in the right place to keep abreast of the art of dealing with aFib and you have friends on here that can empathize. I wish you much NSR going forward.

Murray L

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tikosyn uptake Dec 2011 500ug b.i.d. NSR since!
Herein lies opinion, not professional advice, which all are well advised to seek.

After enduring Lone Afib for 20 years and having it progress from several times a year to every other week, and enduring several meds to control the Afib over the years, blood thinners, many electroconversions, considerable frustration and inconvenience, and being Afib free since my Natale Ablation May of 2011 I would say a resounding---------YES it was worth it and if I happen to need another I would do it in a heartbeat. However, I am very optimistic and feel that I will not need another.

After 15 months of LAF I had an ablation in Sept 2009; 10 days later afib returned and continued on a weekly basis until January 20 of this year, when I had the 5 Box TTM procedure at Ohio State. I have had no afib since the procedure.

Barb,

You may be interested in these comments from the 2008 ablation/maze survey;

• The average complete success rate for the 15 top-ranked RF ablation centers was 65% with a failure rate of 27% for the period 1998-2008. This compares to a complete success rate of 32%, and a failure rate of 61% at other than top-ranked institutions. This clearly indicates that the all-important factor in determining the outcome of an RF ablation is the skill and experience of the EP performing it. Techniques and outcomes have improved markedly from the period 1998-2004 to the period 2007-2008. For example, the final success rate for the three top-rated RF ablation centers (Cleveland Clinic (Ohio), Hopital Cardiologique du Haut Leveque (Bordeaux), and California Pacific Medical center (San Francisco)) has increased almost 10% to average 82% for the period 2007-2008. A very encouraging trend indeed! The average repeat rate was 30% at top-ranked institutions versus 44% at other institutions.

• Even an unsuccessful ablation resulted in a significant reduction in episode frequency in 74% of cases and in 75% of cases was associated with a significant decrease in episode duration. Overall, 70% of unsuccessfully ablated patients experienced a 50% or better decrease in their afib burden. [From 2007 survey]

• Considering a 50% or greater reduction in afib burden (frequency x duration) as an indicator of improvement, it is estimated that close to 90% of RF ablations were ultimately successful in improving quality of life. [From 2007 survey]

[www.afibbers.org]

Hans

Hans - I thought the success rate in top centers was even higher, no? I know everyone talks of Dr. Natale as being the "it" person for an ablation in the U.S. But are there other EP's that are basically on par with him? I thought Dr. Natale was down in Texas much of the time, yet that wasn't one of the centers you just mentioned. I haven't seen much on Dr. Larry Chinitz from NYU, I believe....that certainly would be much easier to get to him, but I will go elsewhere if it would make a big difference.

Murray - I imagine I could try Tikosyn, but I kind of feel at this point that I'm tired of relying on a drug to control this. I am 59 years old and often feel the need for a nap, as I am on the Flec and Atenolol AND Spironolactone (potassium sparing diuretic for high BP), and it's time to get my energy back. God forbid I end up with any other medical problem that requires a medication...I'll become one of those little old ladies who can't remember if I took my pills or not, and then have to deal with interactions between multiple meds as well! I definitely don't want that. I'm glad you are doing pretty well on it so far...there is definitely something to be said for getting a much needed reprieve!

Lon - glad to read of your success. Where did you get the ablation and how long did you have to wait, once you decided to do it?

Thanks everyone - would love to hear from more of you, as Stevie said too. ~ Barb

Barb: Dr. Natale used to work out of the Cleveland Clinic and Marin General Hospitals when a lot of statistics were being compiled by Hans.

I've had my Natale ablation for 5 years and still happily in NSR with no PVC's if I'm careful with my electrolytes.

Gordon

I had a Natale ablation I'm May 3 of 2010 this was the last time I also had afib so for me it was the best decision and I don't regret ir even if my afib came back. Do your research, try supplements and/or drugs and do what you feel is the right decision. Best advice I can give is if you have an ablation go to the EP that you are most confident in based on your research. I had found that Hans information and statistics were in part very valuable in my decision and the afib report was a good factual neutral ground.

Hans,
Do you know anything about an EP in Ocala, Fl, who's name is Daniel Rieder?
He is listed with the Heart Rythem Society.

Thanks Dee

Tobherd

I was able to trade ablation dates with someone from Arizona that I communicated with on this Forum. This moved me up from a scheduled July of 2011 Ablation to May of 2011. From time of first consult with Dr. Natale it would have taken 5 to 6 months to schedule the ablation. My ablation was done in San Francisco at California Pacific where Dr. Natale divides his time with the Texas facility.
Can you believe----I emailed Dr. Natale twice and he immediately responded (yes it was actually he that responded). I can't get my local Dr. to even return a phone call.
Having my Left Atrial Appendage attended to by Dr. Natale is the reason for my optimistic thinking. It's my understanding that not all EP's address this delicate procedure. Follow up to my TEE procedure indicated all OK and no clotting.

Hi Barb,

I am 48 years old with no other health concerns, and have had 3 ablations in the last 10 years. Before the last procedure 3 weeks ago, I was in afib every 3-4 days, with 24 hour episodes. I have never had electrocardioversion, asI always came out of it on my own. Exercise has always been a big part of my life, but in the past 5 years I was very limited to when I could exercise. It has only been 3 weeks since my last ablation, but already I feel much better than before. I get several "flutters" per day, but apparently, that is not unusual in the first 3 months, and, it is still better than before. I feel great, and can at least go for a good long walk each day, or yoga or a bike ride. I am on magnesium and potassium, and starting the taurine and coenzyme Q10 this week.

So yes, it so far, has been worth it, but I am still hesitant to get too excited in these early stages.

As for the procedure itself, since I guess I consider myself as one of the ablation "veterans", this last procedure was a piece of cake. Great care, I felt great immediately afterwards, and easy recovery. I took 3 days off work and felt okay, where as the last procedure I could have used 2 weeks. I was at Royal Jubilee Hospital in Victoria, BC, Dr. Nowak.

Good luck, Barb, with your decision.
Tara

I had LAF at age 65 in Feb 2005 - I had an Radio Frequency Ablation Oct 2005 - it took a year for my heart to settle down and for me to be weaned off the meds - I have been in NSR since - my EP was Dr. Jasbir S. Sra, Milwaukee, Wisconsin - he is very experienced and skilled - for me, it was the right decision to have an ablation. Wishing you the best of health, Mrs. Frankie Smith

Hi, I seldom come to the board, but today I happened to see your inquiry.

I experienced a fib from March to December, 2005, when I had an ablation. During that time, I had maybe 8-10 episodes, but they
were debilitating, and I could do nothing but lie down and wait, as my heart rate would leap into the 160s. I refused meds, as they
all seemed to have gruesome side effects, and went to a wonderful EP at Penn, David Callans. (I later recommended him to others
and we all agree that he may well be the nicest man in the world---bedside manner is secondary to competence, but he has plenty of
both!).

Callans did the ablation and told me he doubted I'd ever have a fib again, and so far, he's been right. I still take potassium, magnesium,
and taurine, but otherwise, my life is back to what it was before the beast arrived. I can't help thinking that Callans had that confidence
because I had NOT suffered a fib for years, so he had a pretty normal heart to work with. I am delighted that the misery lasted less than
a year and should it ever return, I would run, not walk, to see Callans again. The years since then have been doubly precious.

Good luck in making a decision that is right for you.

Lynne

I had a 100% successful ablation 5 years ago after 11 years of afib. Done by Kevin R. Wheelan at the HeartPlace, Baylor Hospital in Dallas,TX

Hello Dee,

I don't have any information re. Dr. Daniel Rieder so can not comment on his success rate. However, I know that Dr. Sergio Pinski at the Cleveland Clinic in Weston, Florida have performed hundreds of successful afib ablations and I would recommend him without hesitation.

Hans

Barb,

In my 2008 survey about 90% of the ablations done at the Cleveland Clinic and the California Pacific Medical Center was done by Dr. Natale before he moved to Austin, Texas. He now does ablations in Austin, San Francisco and La Jolla. Dr. Natale has done thousands of successful ablations and I do indeed consider him the "top gun" in the United States. However, Dr. Chinitz has a pretty good success rate and assuming you have paroxysmal afib with relatively short episodes it certainly may be worth giving him a try, but whoever you select you should be prepared for a second procedure.

Hans

Hans,
How about Mt Sinai EP's Dr Reddy?

Dr Skipitaris in New York?
Nicholas T. Skipitaris, MD, FHRS, CCDS
Medical School:
Dartmouth-Brown Prog Med

Specialties:
Clinical Cardiology
Clinical Electrophysiology

Practice Information:
Device Interrogation
ICD Devices
CRT Devices
Pacemaker Devices
VT Ablation
AF Ablation
SVT Ablation
Lead Extractions

Certifications:
Internal Medicine
Clinical Cardiac Electrophysiology
Cardiovascular Disease



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2012 11:28PM by McHale.

have my ablation schdeuled with Dr. Reddy in June. I'm hoping it does the trick

Hans, Not to be diagreeable but I think the Natale figures need some checking. I was told the number ablations at CCF has been around 2500 per year when he was there and continues at that level now. 80% would be 2000. If he doesn't take any vacation or time off to give seminars and travel to other places to train other EPs, then that would mean he would do 4 ablations every weekday for the whole year. I am sure Natale is very hard working and he is human who has a life outside of ablations.. Also, more credit is due other EPs at CCF.

Lon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Having my Left Atrial Appendage attended to by Dr.
> Natale is the reason for my optimistic thinking.
> It's my understanding that not all EP's address
> this delicate procedure. Follow up to my TEE
> procedure indicated all OK and no clotting.


Lon,

What did you mean when you wrote that your Left Atrial Appendage was "attended to by Dr. Natale"?

Buster

researcher,

I am sorry if my posting re. Dr. Natale was confusing. I certainly did not mean to imply that Dr. Natale did 90% or even 80% of the procedures done at the Cleveland Clinic in 2008. The relevant paragraph of my posting reads:

In my survey about 90% of the ablations done at the Cleveland Clinic and the California Pacific Medical Center was done by Dr. Natale before he moved to Austin, Texas.

The 2008 Ablation/Maze survey evaluated the results of 729 RF catheter ablation procedures done with the purpose of curing atrial fibrillation. A total of 83 of these procedures were done at the Cleveland Clinic during the period 2001-2008 with 88% being done by Dr. Natale. Again, please note that this in no way means that Dr. Natale did 88% of all RF ablations (for afib) performed at the Cleveland Clinic (Ohio) in 2008. It means that 88% of respondents to the 2008 Ablation/Maze survey having their procedure at the Cleveland Clinic had it done by Dr. Natale.

Also, my remarks were not in any way intended to belittle the performance of Drs. Saliba, Schweikert and Tchou all of whom I would wholeheartedly recommend.

Hans

McHale,

I don't have the data to "pronounce" on the success rates of Drs. Reddy and Skipitaris. However, someone like Dr. Skipitaris would not be my first choice for an afib ablation. In your posting you list his areas of expertise as:

Device Interrogation
ICD Devices
CRT Devices
Pacemaker Devices
VT Ablation
AF Ablation
SVT Ablation
Lead Extractions

It is clear that he is involved in many other areas than just RF ablation for atrial fibrillation and it follows that he can have nowhere the experience of the EPs [the "top guns"] who do 2 or 3 afib ablations every day and has done so for 10 years or longer.

Hans

Hi Barb,

I know you were asking about people who have had ablations, but I have a different perspective. I have not had an ablation, but my afib has been under control for three years using propafenone (rythmol) and an extremely low dose of metropolol (except when I ate too many baked cookies one Christmas, and once when I climbed over 425 steps in Italy). I still take magnesium and potassium daily (taurine didn't seem to work for me at all and caused increased PACs), and I take warfarin because of a genetic clotting disorder. I monitor sodium very carefully and eat minimal carbs, but there are times I fall off the wagon and have a glass of dark beer or a glass of wine Prior to taking rythmol, I had afib once every three days for several hours at a time with a high heart rate. After six months of resisting medication, doing the supplements, and eating a punishing diet with no success, I went on the rythmol.

I think rythmol works by using a different mechanism than flec. I've been reluctant to go the ablation route because of the clotting disorder, and have been hoping success rates will improve or some genius will come up with a "one-size fits all" approach that is non-invasive. No matter what I do regarding the afib, I have to be on warfarin. Sometimes I feel as though I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop, but I would probably try a different medication before ablation. Whatever your decision, I hope you have peace of mind.

I don't post very often, but I'm very appreciative of all the generous people who post to this forum.

Doreen

Hans,
Then who would you recommend in New York?
I wonder if I travel would my insurance cover it?

McHale,

My choices for NY would be Dr. Larry Chinitz at NYU Medical Center or Dr. Jonathan Steinberg at St. Luke's.

Hans

Wow - thanks everyone for taking the time to respond. So far, I haven't heard anyone say that they are NOT happy they went through with their ablations. The thing that did surprise me was how many of you didn't go to Dr. Natale. I guess I've heard so much about him and his success that I would feel he's the only one to go to....but he certainly isn't conveniently located to me in NY. Glad to hear of your successes!

Has anyone heard of Dr. Ram Jadanoth from North Shore LIJ hospital on Long Island? I have gone to him and really liked him, but would be afraid to have an ablation with him as I haven't heard him recommended at all....

Hans...didn't one of your Afib reports say that they are getting to the point of not needing to do more than one ablation? How close are they to that situation, do you know?

Any what about cryoablation..is that becoming a good option?

tobherd, the top guns all use RF for AF ablation.

Hans, got it. Thanks for the clarification.

Hans Larsen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> McHale,
>
> My choices for NY would be Dr. Larry Chinitz at
> NYU Medical Center or Dr. Jonathan Steinberg at
> St. Luke's.
>
> Hans
Dr Skipitaris actually trained under Dr Chinitz and has done a few hundred RF AF ablations total out of a few thousand total ablations.

The decision to have an ablation almost 2 years ago was an easy one for me, I did not want to be on the meds. I only dealt with afib 1 year to the day of my ablation with Dr Schweikert in Akron OH USA 330-344-4377. I did experience some ectopics but they went away completely after quitting CoQ10. I still supplement, watch my Sodium and check my Potassium levels at home with a Cardymeter.

I had my ablation for persistent AFIB in Aug 2008 in Texas with Dr Natale and have not had one blip of AFIB since. Going from 24/7 very difficult and symptomatic AFIB to so much NSR made it one of the better decisions of my life.

Dr. Natale wasnt able tto actually finish my first procedure when a left bundle branch block triggered near the end when he was going to work in and around the LAA, and when my blood pressure dropped too low he had to cardiovert me out of the procedure. Thus he told me all along that he didnt expect anymore actual AFIB but that I would likely need one more procedure to get this out of my life for the long haul and could well get some ablation related atypical left Flutter episodes going forward and when those beacme too numerous would be a good time to finish the original job.

Ive had periodic flutters, each requiring ECV to get back to NSR since last May (11 to be exact) so now seems like the time to seriously consider getting hopefully the last ablation.. that is if my latest project for maintaining a decent IC mag level doesn't work out. Even with 2 grams of IM Mag suflate injected every day!! on top of 750mg of oral time-released Jigsaw Albion Mag Malate daily and a total of 30mEq of sustained releasedPotassium Chloride/day and all the other supps, my latest Exatest IC Mag report just two weeks ago showed a low 31!!!! Even with that much Magnesium intake!

Plus each time I have triggered into an left flutter my Serum K level has been below 4.1 and I never have I triggered when Potassium is above 4.1...

Alas, even with ingesting all the time-released Potassium Chloride I can go from a super good 4.9 serum K level within two hours after taking 20mEq of K Chloride, as confirmed with my trusty Cardymeter and backed up with simultaneous Serum testing, back down to just 3.7 in only 14 to 15 hours! ANd the lsat flutter a few weeks ago I discovered that that time interval from swinging from good to too low K reading can happen even within an 8 hour period from the last dose of K Chloride and that is when carefully watching salt intake as well.

More frequent K testing now is underway to insure I stay in the better range as much as possible.

I am the very definition of a Mag/Potassium Waster and likely with absorption issues to boot .. Next step is to start twice or thrice weekly IV mag infusions in addition to the oral AND nightly Magnesium 'oil' soaks..

If and when I start triggering when I am in a good IC Mag and Serum K range then I know for sure its time for the fix.

Barb,

Whether you need one or multiple ablations depends to a large extent on your individual situation. A male, vagal afibber with short episodes would likely only need one procedure provided it was done by a highly skilled and experienced EP. However, a female, mixed afibber with long-lasting or persistent episodes would likely need more than one procedure even if the EP was highly skilled and experienced. I don't think technological advances is going to change this situation very much if at all. And, before you ask, the reason why women are more difficult to ablate successfully is at least partly explained by the fact that their hearts tend to be smaller and therefore more difficult to move around in.

Hans

Barb,

further to Hans post I can advise that an American lady - who contacted me via the BB a few years ago - who has already had one failed ablation here in Hong Kong decided she would go with Natale after much hesitation - her first ablation had to be aborted due to something going wrong with the proceedure. Dr Natale aparently advised her it would probably take two proceedures so to be prepared for a bit of disappointment. Around 6 months ago she had the proceedure done with Natale which must have not been perfect and around two weeks ago she had a second with Natale and now she is feeling great, over the moon.
Not sure of all the details as we had lost contact for quite a while but she will give me the full story/update over a cup of coffee in Starbucks when she arrives back in town.

For myself, and after having had 5 ablations to rid my self of the curse of arrythmias I can only say there was no other choice. If I should go back in Afib tomorrow I would return to Bordeaux at the drop of an hat. Anything other than NSR is life lost and we are only here once.

Barry G.

researcher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tobherd, the top guns all use RF for AF
> ablation.
>
> Hans, got it. Thanks for the clarification.

Researcher,
What's your situation with the beast like and what's on your mind?

tobherd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow - thanks everyone for taking the time to
> respond. So far, I haven't heard anyone say that
> they are NOT happy they went through with their
> ablations. The thing that did surprise me was how
> many of you didn't go to Dr. Natale. I guess I've
> heard so much about him and his success that I
> would feel he's the only one to go to....but he
> certainly isn't conveniently located to me in NY.
> Glad to hear of your successes!
>
> Has anyone heard of Dr. Ram Jadanoth from North
> Shore LIJ hospital on Long Island? I have gone to
> him and really liked him, but would be afraid to
> have an ablation with him as I haven't heard him
> recommended at all....
>
> Hans...didn't one of your Afib reports say that
> they are getting to the point of not needing to do
> more than one ablation? How close are they to
> that situation, do you know?
>
> Any what about cryoablation..is that becoming a
> good option?

Yes a friend just went to him for Tachy a few months ago so far so good. There was one spot that was hot that was in a precarious area that he had to avoid but that didn't show potential until induced so he avoided it. I don't have those details. Anyway he's very good but I'm not sure how many afib ablations he's done. I'll try to find out.
There's a 5 year Europace report coming out soon about 5 year results Zach said should be released soon........????

You would think living in New York we would have too many choices for afib ablations with Top Guns?
We probably do and many are unknown here!

I had a Natale ablation in Austin in March 2011.....other than warfarin for the first 90 days have not required any medication since the procedure and have been completely event free. My decision to have an ablation was based on my desire to stop the anti-arrhythmia medication. While I had atrial fibrillation for several years (very minimal events) would always self-convert within a very short time period or would utilize Rythmol as a "pill in the pocket". However over time the events became more frequent and my EP cardiologist prescribed daily Rythmol in Janurary 2010. For me, the side affects of the medication were worst than the arrhythmia and I switched to Multaq in May. While the side affects were greatly reduced, neither medications completely eliminated the events. At this point my positon on an ablation went from "absolutely not interested" to an appointment with Natale in November to learn more about the procedure. After the consulation with Natale and vast amount of research I ultimately opted for the procedure in March..

Also, in May 2010 began to use potassium and magnesium supplements per advice form this forum.

Couple of side notes about Natale.....he told me that in his opinion my arrhythmia would only get worse over time and that the medication would probably become less effective.....however it would be acceptable to continue with the Multaq until it became less effective. We discussed the issues with Multaq but he stated that the next medication for me would be equally toxic with long-term usage. I asked him how many ablations he had performed and he said over 4,000 of the specific procedure that would be used for me.


Steve
Spring, Tx.

McHale, My arrhythmia was niacin induced. I was prescribed large does of niacin by a young doctor when I found out I had familial hypercholesterolemia. This was in the early days of statins and the doctor didn't know what he was doing in retrospect.. Had my first attack during a business meeting where I had flown out to. That was within a week of starting the niacin. I had no idea what the heck was going on because I started sweating profusely and my suit was drenched in minutes. I had to excuse myself from the meeting, got a hold of the doc and he told me to stop taking niacin but he never explained what was happening to me. I switched health plans as soon as I could and found a different doc and started statins. My episodes would come back randomly for a few more years, always profuse sweating at what seem like the most inconvenient times. It's been almost 20 years since my last attack so the niacin effect lingered for about 5 years. My cholesterol is under control with Zocor. I take 80mg aspirin daily. I eat healthy and exercise regularly, more regular exercise and healthier food than when I was working. Only one I have to look out for presently is my father in law and good friend, knock on wood. .

Barb,
We need to find out more about Dr. Ram Jadanoth and how many afib ablations he has under his belt.
I talked with my friend today and within the first 5 mins during the consultation he knew he found the right EP.
He also came highly recommended from many he told me.

Researcher,
Wow over 20 years wish we were so lucky.
I'm surprised you're still so interested but appreciate your contributions here. Thanks

Hans,
U.S. News & World Report Ranks St. Francis One of the Nation’s Best
Any info on St Francis out on Long Island New York?
They have top guns out there in all areas of the heart that must have top EP specialists in AFIB.
They claim they are a high volume center and do the most procedures in all New York State

McHale,

Unfortunately I only have data on 2 patients who had their ablations done at St. Francis in Roslyn, NY. One was successful the other was not. Hardly enough data from which to draw a valid conclusion as to their general success rate.

Hans

Hans Larsen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> McHale,
>
> Unfortunately I only have data on 2 patients who
> had their ablations done at St. Francis in Roslyn,
> NY. One was successful the other was not. Hardly
> enough data from which to draw a valid conclusion
> as to their general success rate.
>
> Hans
Hans,
Just curious how do you compile this data? Do the hospitals release their data etc.....
What data do you have on Dr Chinitz as you have recommended.
If Dr Natale was here in New York I would already be booked no questions asked but......
I was also told by an EP that Natale is aggressive in his ablations that's why he's successful but complications are higher than reported.

McHale,

The data on which my conclusions are based are from my Ablation/Maze surveys involving about 1000 procedures carried out at various institutions. You cand find the 2008 survey here: [www.afibbers.org].

The survey is based on responses from afibbers who actually underwent the procedures, not on hospital data, so there is no reason why complications would be underreported. According to my surveys successful ablations are considerably less likely to be accompanied by adverse effects than are unsuccesful ones, which makes sense as one would expect a highly skilled and experienced EP to have greater success and fewer complications. I can assure you that Dr. Natale's complication rate is extremely low and I would ascribe the EP's comments suggesting otherwise to a bad case of sour grapes.

Hans

Hans, what if anything do you know about Dr. Wharton at MUSC? I had very little response when I posted and asked if anyone had experience with him. Do you know about his success rate, etc.? My ablation was done there on 9.8.11. I have experienced a lot of afib since and thinking of going to Texas to consult with Dr,. Natale. I also wanted to ask you about your anxiety experience with afib. You mentioned that as being a contributor in your piece on your afib journey. After your second ablation did your anxiety disappear? Thanks so much . Lynda

Lynda,

Dr. Wharton at MUSC has a good success rate and is certainly one of the top 10 EPs in the US as far as ablations are concerned. And yes, the anxiety was definitely associated with my afib and did indeed disappear except for the odd occasion when I feel anxious about something unrelated to afib. In those cases I find that a couple of l-theanine capsules makes it disappear.

Hans

Great discussions, everyone! As often happens with me, I have now had a couple of good weeks, so am back to holding off.... I have since been diagnosed with a herniated disk that was giving me severe pain in my hip area, and was given a shot and some pain meds. (haven't been taking too many of the meds..don't worry But I'm almost wondering if the body knows it has something else to deal with that's important/big, and the afib stays somewhat..dormant. Probably a coincidence, but an interesting one for sure. At least I haven't had to deal with both the hip/disk issue and afib together...at least not yet.

Yes, McHale - I would like to hear more about Dr. Jadanoth, because I really liked him. Should I decide to go forward with an ablation, I would like to go to him, but at this point, wouldn't feel confident that he's one of the best.

So glad to hear all of your successes - have a good night all ~ Barb

Hans Larsen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> McHale,
>
> The data on which my conclusions are based are
> from my Ablation/Maze surveys involving about 1000
> procedures carried out at various institutions.
> You cand find the 2008 survey here:
> <[www.afibbers.org]
> vey.pdf>.
>
> The survey is based on responses from afibbers who
> actually underwent the procedures, not on hospital
> data, so there is no reason why complications
> would be underreported. According to my surveys
> successful ablations are considerably less likely
> to be accompanied by adverse effects than are
> unsuccesful ones, which makes sense as one would
> expect a highly skilled and experienced EP to have
> greater success and fewer complications. I can
> assure you that Dr. Natale's complication rate is
> extremely low and I would ascribe the EP's
> comments suggesting otherwise to a bad case of
> sour grapes.
>
> Hans

Hans,
Good read but it's pretty obvious the Cleveland Clinic by far has close to 80% success rate even with persistent and permanent afibbers mixed in, followed by Natale and the French.
Take Dr Chinitz with only a 38% success rate but with only a small sample size of 8 patients with 14 repeat procedures for 63% repeat rate.
Chinitz has probably done over 1000 ablations so these figures would not be statistically relevant?
Mt Sinai also does a few hundred if not a thousand AF ablation and there not even listed. I knew a few posters that have been cured of afib by Dr Reddy.
Do they list their results? I would love to see Dr Tcho

Lon,

What did you mean when you wrote that your Left Atrial Appendage was "attended to by Dr. Natale"?

Buster

By attended to I mean he ablated some hot spots.

Lon,

Thanks for clarifying that for me.

Buster

McHale - I first went to St. Francis hospital to get a consult, and was completely turned off. The doctor I met with focused more on the fact that I had a tachycardia episode almost 25 years ago and then talked about how he could fix that, and what time he did them...and then acted as if I was going to do that. "I do these at 7am on Thursday mornings...you need to be here by this time,"...etc. He showed me a diagram of the heart and how hard it was to get to the left side and do an ablation, and then seemed to focus back on what he could do to eliminate the tachycardia (that I haven't had in years and years). My husband and I left his office and said "no way" - It felt like a factory there...NEXT!

Maybe we just had some miscommunication...but I ask alot of questions and consider myself to be a good listener (when I have to be, anyway, so...I basically think he was a pompous, inconsiderate person who saw me as a contributor to his yacht payments....or whatever.

I know this is supposed to be a top cardiac hospital in the New York area, but I would rather find somewhere else.

SO...anyone else have more info on Dr. Ram Jadanoth? I really liked him - but again, I would only choose a "top gun".....

BArb

Barb,
I asked for a Stress/Echo Tueday before I see my cardiologist in 2 weeks. If my LA has enlarged anymore it's ablation time.
I'm still getting lots of erratic beats I'm sure with afib thrown in especially this week.......... I'm getting unnerved

i had 2 ablations in london. was in af 4 days in 5 prior, since last one get very occasional af like once or twice per year and run regularly.