Testing Mineral Balance

I know that I saw somewhere on this board a test to determine mineral levels. I have a dr. appt. today with my integrative dr. and want to speak to her about that issue. What is the name of the test that Hans recommends?

I finally found the info on the EXA test and showed to to my dr. She seemed to favor a micro-nutrient test by SpectraCell.

Does anyone know if there is any data out there that supports the accuracy of the EXA?

I ran across this post from another site, but linear regression analysis is not my area of expertise, perhaps Hans could comment.


"I did some more research into this EXA stuff and tried to find out if there was any good science behind it.

There is this paper that appeared to kick things off...

[tinyurl.com]

Now, looking at the paper, the crucial graph appears to be figure 1 - that is supposed to show a correlation between the cells taken from under the tongue and cells taken from the heart. A linear regression is performed that claims to show a relationship between the two.

But the regression is completely dependent on essentially one or two outlier point on the graph. Remove the point and the plot looks like a random scatter. You can do this yourself bu covering the outliers and seeing if you can still draw a line through the points. You cannot in all honesty. In other words, the cells from the tongue do not predict magnesium heart levels - it is not a good diagnostic test. The paper's conclusions cannot be supported by the data.

The paper fails to discuss this rather obvious point. The whole thing collapses as a result. One of the authors of the paper is not the guy flogging these tests. In fact, he looks as if he was offering these tests before he had even done the research. One has to question what is going on here.

BTW Be very wary of people who say they have degrees in nutrition. This is not the same as having a degree in dietetics. There are some very doubtful nutrition-lite degrees out there where people are essentially taught nonsense - like the need to take supplements all the time!"

Lynn - The intracellular magnesium is key to controlling afib.... along with potassium of course... and the others that I mention frequently. What's invaluable with the Exatest is the ratio of Mg/Ca and K/Na.

I have had Exatest and several others here have had it and we were all found to be low or very low in magnesium.

My thought is just assume you are low and start supplementing until you reach tissue saturation or the two soft bowel movements a day.... see my other posts on dosing protocols and the titrating up of doses of the glycinate form of magnesium. It may take as long as six months to optimize magnesium levels. In people who are refractory, the process is ongoing.

You certainly can do other testing for other minerals but what concerns afibbers is how much magnesium is inside the cells and the only test that measures that is Exatest.



Jackie

Jackie:

For the past couple of years I have been taking 800 mg. of magnesium glycinate and if two bm's a day indicate tissue saturation I am there. I am more concerned with potassium.

The couple times I have went the the ER in a-fib my potassium has been borderline. So I have to work really hard at keeping it up. I get about 25mg from my multi and try to drink an organic version of V8 every day,

Thought this test would help sort that out, but don't want to spend money on something if it may not really be accurate.

In regards to the EXA, is this something your dr. has to order? How much does it cost. Is it done at home or in the drs. office?

Lynn since you have been doing well with Mg supplements, you are correct in focusing on the potassium.... many people cannot get enough potassium from foods alone. If your serum potassium from a blood test is low or borderline low, then it's important to get that level up to about 4.5...some people do better slightly less or slightly more. Most of us like the bulk powdered potassium gluconate product Hans has on his website - NOW brand. This assumes that you have healthy kidney function and that you do not take any meds that are potassium sparing.

25 mg of potassium is really nothing at all and a couple cans of LS V8 may help but that's not probably not going to do it, either. The daily food intake requirement suggests an intake of 4700 mg. By using Fitday or similar charts, you can calculate your average intake from food and add to that with supplements if need be.

Be sure you have eliminated processed and packaged foods from your diet that typically contain large amounts of sodium chloride as that competes with potassium.

Type in a search for Exatest here and read the past posts on the procedure and costs. The doctor orders it. The scraping is done in the office. Medicare pays for it. Some insurance covers it. I don't have my file handy but I believe the cost was either $540 or $570.

Jackie

Thanks Jackie. I will do a search. I am wondering about calcium as well. Don't we have to be careful with that with the a-fib. If so, how do we balance that with the need to maintain bone density.

Lynn - yes - calcium can be dominant over magnesium if magnesium is deificient and if that's the case, then the calcium excites heart cells. The normal dietary intake of calcium-containing foods along with magnesium, vitamin D3 and vitamin K2 MK7 serves to make sure that dietary calcium reaches the bones.

It's best to successfully manage the afib and then after a period of stability of no afib, to slowly supplement with additional calcium keeping the ratio of 2:1 Mg/Ca or at the very least 1:1 if you really think you need to.

One post on this topic: <[www.afibbers.org]>

Another:
Author: jackie (---.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net)
Date: 03-05-10 12:49

Josiah - I have recently heard two teleconferences on the osteoporosis topic... and the overuse of calcium in helping with this condition. The information presented was typical from a functional medicine perspective.

One comment is that magnesium is shown to improve bone density all by itself. Another says that at the very minimum, calcium to magnesium should be 1:1... better is more magnesium than calcium. Emphasis was made on the need to use vitamin D3 and K2 and other trace minerals... boron, zinc... but strontium was downplayed as not being as helpful as once thought.

Criticism runs high for megadoses of calcium because it's well known that free calcium (just floating around in the blood) will end up in soft tissues - heart, blood vessels, breast tissue, bone spurs... and does not help increase bone density if it can't get into the bone cells... And it does that with the aid of those nutrients mentioned. With optimal magnesium, then even low doses of magnesium have the chance to get inside bone cells where it belongs. It's just unfortunate that once again, mainstream medicine, isn't doing a good job when it comes to overall dosing. Magnesium stores have to be optimal but the D3 and K2MK7 are also essential.

Jackie

Also remember that various foods and beverages when metabolized are detrimental to bone density as they pull stored calcium out of bones to act as a buffer to offset an acidic pH so the kidneys are not harmed. Eliminating these foods is step one in preventing osteoporosis.

Strong bones and good bone density depend on regular weight bearing exercise and a good free-weight program.
Good reference books:
Strong Women, Strong Bones….Miriam Nelson, PhD
Preventing and Reversing Osteoporosis… Alan R. Gaby, MD
Myths of Osteoporosis – Gill Sanson