Safib and Colindo, I am another who is adversely sensitive to Mg (two recent trials again provoked ectopics) and I suppose that in one sense it could also be said that I too am "adversely sensitive to VitD" -- but only, in truth, in the sense that if I have too much Ca intake then an increase in VitD will worsen any ectopics which arise from the Ca. In reality, as you know, whatby SteveCarr - AFIBBERS FORUM
Ralph, Do you know your average daily calcium intake and your current serum vitamin D3 level?by SteveCarr - AFIBBERS FORUM
Quotesafib On a different note, I successfully reduced my paroxysmal afib to < 0.1 % burden over the last two years, by maintaining a dairy-free diet along with reduction in exercise intensity and duration. The episodes that I had were short and lasted only a few minutes. In the past I have repeatedly found that dairy or fish oil supplementation at any level or D3 supplementation beyond the 10by SteveCarr - AFIBBERS FORUM
I'm encouraged by 1Jwalkup3836's report, above, of 6 weeks afib-free and ectopics-free after slashing his Ca intake. This is probably yet more confirmation of the great gains that are available by careful attention to the Ca and VitD interaction -- albeit that 6 weeks can still be considered early days (hence I use the word "probably"). We need far more of this -- people exby SteveCarr - AFIBBERS FORUM
I totally agree that increasing one's serum VitD levels, even from levels which begin at unsatisfactorily low levels in terms of many other health risks, can send someone who has a too-high Ca intake (eg by consuming any dairy Ca, but several other ways as well) into afib. Although I was previously unaware (and you seem to have only just realized it yourself) that your afib first ever begby SteveCarr - AFIBBERS FORUM
Ghost : Sorry to hear about your afib attack, but mwcf is right -- it is very unlikely that you have tried the protocol yet. Vital to the whole approach is to have one's serum VitD3 around the 64ng/ml (160nmol/L) level at the same time as having the reduced Ca intake! Three to five thousand iu of VitD3/day (let's call it 4,000iu/day) will eventually plateau at a level significantlby SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
Hwkmn05 : I have to say that sounds like a good test of my protocol and excellent results so far if I am understanding you correctly. From what you say, it sounds as though you had weekly bouts of ectopics (or was it weekly bouts of afib?) for some months. Then you raised your serum VitD3 to 58ng/ml by supplementing VitD3 20,000iu/day for 12 days, and reduced your calcium intake to 200-500mg/dby SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
hwkmn05 : Do you mind if I ask how much VitD you take; how far you limit your Ca intake; how long you have been doing that; and what has been the upshot for your afib as best you can tell? Might as well throw in the details on the Mg supplement if you are willing. Cheers. mwcf : No, Mike. As I have posted before, Mg always proved a bad influence re afib/ectopics for me. Well, there was one briby SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
I believe that GeorgeN, who maintains extremely high serum VitD3 levels (150ng/ml I think he recently said, which would require ongoing daily doses around 20,000iu), has done so and has an excellent CAC score. But, regardless, even if one person with a high serum VitD had a worse CAC score, it would tell you very little. As we know, bad CAC scores are very common in adults, despite the fact thby SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
As some visitors to this site may have noticed, I have made a bit more serious effort in the last month or so, for the first time, to get a few people interested in my successful method for eliminating afib and ectopics by diet alone, without use of ablation or medication. (Previously, I had only tested my dietary protocol in my father, my son, and most extensively myself -- more details at my weby SteveCarr - AFIBBERS FORUM
mwcf If I was in your position Mike, I would make very sure that I kept my Ca intake very low as my serum (blood) VitD levels approached these solar-saturation type levels, until I could see what the upshot was. I know that you (individually) already know that, but it is worth repeating often, for anyone else who may read this, because it is true that higher serum VitD increases Ca absorptionby SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
Ghost, Well, of course, no-one really knows what this cyclical process is. Safe to say, if anyone did, then the real, underlying cause of Lone AF would be conclusively known. There are many on this Forum who talk about Ca overload into cells, and that does seem plausible in some way (and then the fibrillation may represent some sort of Ca-release "safety valve" before cellular damby SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
Just to have one more go at putting the VitD dosing into perspective (all from memory, so please excuse if minor inaccuracies) : A large-area body exposure (eg in bathers, or shirt-off) in midsummer delivers a dose of around 20,000iu after (from memory) about 20 mins of exposure. After that it basically plateaus for the day -- can't get any more that day. So 1,000iu is roughly equivalby SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
Liz, 1,000iu per day will virtually not raise your serum VitD at all (unless there is some completely different and much more efficient absorbance and retention mechanism via the skin versus the gut -- about which I am completely unaware, and which is quite likely never to have even been researched by anyone, but which I suppose is always theoretically possible in the absence of evidence to thby SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
Ghost, Not guaranteeing this applies in your case, of course, but I do recall lots of incidents like the one you relate, from my experiments when I was sorting out the Ca/VitD relationship in my case. I recall that quite a few occurred in the days after doing Ca-intake reductions, and I would at first despair for the few seconds they lasted, thinking "Oh no, this is not working and I'by SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
Liz, What total of VitD supplements have you taken since your blood level of VitD tested at 30ng/ml (75nmol/L)? That is, how many iu ("International Units") in total since then, or how many days at what dose per day (in International Units)? 30 ng/ml is certainly just about at the the very bottom of the US reference range (25 to 80 ng/ml). At my weight of ~70Kg, I would require abby SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
In at least some people it's absolutely clear that events like this are not a coincidence; but, in the end, only if people do a careful, thorough test, as you are, will they ever find out if they can eliminate their afib and ectopics in this natural way.by SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
Ghost, Well, it is just over the bottom of the currently quoted US reference range of 25 to 80 ng/mL, which suggests that your serum VitD (blood level) was actually below the reference range (ie you were officially deficient) before you began using the 5,000iu/day VitD supplement. But then again, apparently around 40% of US adults are. 31 ng/mL (78 nmol/L) is still very low in terms of whatby SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
Ghost, Thanks for the update. Very early days of course, especially if you are only dosing VitD at a consistent 5,000iu/day since around Jan 16 (if I have understood you correctly), because that will not have increased your serum VitD very much so far, so you still would have probably three months or so to go to thoroughly test whether my protocol works for you. But since you don't know wby SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
Ralph, Well, that is not good news re your particular experiment with my method (what works in our family). One question, one suggestion,and two comments : When you say that your VitD started at 32 and reached 60, I'm assuming that it is obvious that both readings were in ng/ml and not nmol/L? I have written elsewhere that adding Mg doesn't do my afib or ectopics any good, iby SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
Ghost, Re the middle bit of your post : QuoteProbably too late on this as I have already started following your regimen as described and am taking the VitD 5000iu once a day (with the K, and with fatty foods), and don't worry - I've reduced calcium and am monitoring it to keep it around 400mg a day. I've completely eliminated milk (don't need the calories anyway, as I onby SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
Ghost, You are right, there's no obvious downside to taking some VitK. My comment was more along the lines of "Don't stress over that, for now, if you've got an elephant in the room like routinely high Ca consumption and even higher Ca doses on the days you had afib attacks, and all at a low serum VitD level." Will comment more on the middle part of your last post,by SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
Ghost, I say that is highly suspicious : well, as you may know from reading by now, I am actually certain there is a direct connection, but absolutely concrete proof (a scientific-grade large study) is not available as yet. In your position and at your age I would certainly do the following : 1) Forget the VitK for now -- no convincing connection to afib so not your first priority. Plentby SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
rocketritch, I'm hoping that you are noting the multiple warnings in earlier posts above, and that you are reducing your Ca intake if you are increasing your VitD; not emulating what Mike (mwcf) has accidentally done in the post immediately before yours -- increased his ectopics by increasing VitD without a Ca reduction, or apparently even accidentally increasing his Ca intake.by SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
I have just posted more info on the General Health Forum topic thread "Afib elimination via calcium and vitamin D control without ablation", including about my ~88 y.o. father's successful elimination of his paroxysmal lone afib by the same technique.by SteveCarr - AFIBBERS FORUM
A few more comments: George is correct, above, that literally billions of people in countries with ~300 mg/day Ca-intakes do not get osteoporosis. In the past, it was fashionable for Western commentators to say: “Well, they don’t live long enough”. But lifespans have rocketed through most of these areas and, apart from those who have adopted more Western habits, the lower osteoporosis rates remaiby SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
MWCF, Interesting articles (even though, as you no doubt thought yourself, I don’t see a direct connection to me or my family members.) The first article’s discussions of Calsequestrin, just one of the many biochemical players in the exquisitely sensitive Ca-homeostasis machinery, is primarily related to its role in ventricular arrhythmias (and related sudden-death phenomena). Just to be cby SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
Dean, This is certainly something I've wondered about, a lot, myself -- being a very large milk consumer all my life until I discovered my afib connection -- and often including my own reflections that, like you, I'd never had a broken bone despite plenty of traumatic impacts (certainly not moaning about that aspect of my calcium metabolism tho -- three of them were on my spine, twoby SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
Upon looking back at copious past notes which I have about increasing VitD levels rapidly (I have notes on all my past experiments etc), I see that the figures I gave in the "ten dot point" post above, which Dean requested for doing that, are accurate for me -- I weigh 70kg. However, I see that, for my wife, her levels increased more rapidly using equal 20,000iu daily doses -- presumablby SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
cirenepurzalot : There is no need for any Ca test unless a doctor says you definitely have symptoms which warrant one – very unlikely! The problems we are discussing (ectopics etc) occur while the Ca is still within the normal reference range for blood levels of that element. As far as I know, all of the info that is needed to test the Ca/VitD approach is in the posts above, and I am wary ofby SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM