One unfortunate thing that I've just realised, which perhaps should have been more obvious, is that attempting the "Full test" of Ca/VitD outlined in the ten "dot point" procedure above, which Dean requested, would be much more difficult than usual if started right now! The festive season is a hard time to minimise Ca intake! If all that people succeed in doing is gettby SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
Following are some further thoughts and info, in case they assist anyone to get their heads around what is involved. I had already written this (all the black text), but wasn't sure whether to post it. But following "The Anti-Fib's" new report, in the Topic on the main forum, of his likely current success by Ca reduction, I am posting this because it covers his situation, amonby SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
For people's comfort, perhaps I should have clarified that the sort of VitD doses I am talking about are known to be completely harmless. Immensely greater doses are given to patients by the medical profession all the time. I have suggested 20,000 iu/day as a loading dose for a period of up to ~ten days maximum (but only for as many days as your own prior VitD testing indicates, as per my poby SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
-- moved topic --by SteveCarr - AFIBBERS FORUM
Dean : I'm worried about annoying everyone with so many long posts. But you're right that dot points are always easier to interpret than dense blocks of text. So, following is a dot point version of what I would say is a "proper", test -- one done so as to yield the clearest result in the shortest time (within reason). So that the "action" dot points are as simby SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
Sorry about all these posts. Colindo : On re-reading, your post could possibly imply that you envisage chucking in more VitD but with no Ca-intake reduction. Hopefully that is my wrong interpretation, but if that is correct then I seriously don't recommend that for anyone who already suffers from ectopics/afib. In fact, knowing what I know now, and if I was about to trial lower Ca-intaby SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
Thank you for your various kind comments. Re VitD testing : yes, it is inconvenient and the cost is annoying (altho I'd say totally justified and recommended for the benefit one can gain). It's possible to say the following things to help a bit: 1) Unless anyone gets pretty heavy solar exposure they are certainly gonna be able to take 2,500iu per day (which is another readily avaiby SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
Here is the post that I entered yesterday on the separate "Staying out in front of afib?" Topic thread in response to another poster's question directed to GeorgeN: "Why have you never had an Ablation to tame the AFIB BEAST instead of the strict regimen you seem to religiously adhere to?" . Decided it is best to put the related stuff that I have to say all in one place.by SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
Thank you all for your replies. Three people have raised VitK, and you have reminded me that I specifically meant to be very clear about that in my website article, as follows, because it had previously occurred to me that people might wonder if it had some direct roll in my afib/ectopics control. I can be certain about this (at least in my case). Because VitK and its known effects on Ca meby SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
FWIW, my take on the sorts of things you are asking (but we are getting deep into what are clearly still not fully scientifically understood aspects of the exquisitely controlled calcium metabolism system -- otherwise modern medicine would easily ensure that no one had osteoporosis, no-one had calcification of their vasculature, etc -- so this is more speculative on my part compared to the simplby SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
For nearly seven years I have been free of afib (previously a very heavy sufferer of Lone AF), and free of ectopic beats except for minor occurrences when experimenting, without having used either ablation or medications. Full details of my approach are at the link below. The site was in need of an update. Well, in the Topic, below, "Staying out in front of afib?" the question was asby SteveCarr - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
Re smackman's question (tho also very relevant to bkimura's original post and others) : I usually just glance at what's occurring on this site and don't post, due to time considerations. But Smackman's post and question to George provokes me to answer, and my answer has stuff in common with George's: Compared to eliminating afib by diet etc, ablation = absolute laby SteveCarr - AFIBBERS FORUM
Two cups of cranberries per day. Bought frozen, unsweetened. There is a frozen-berry chain here (Australia) which sells 1Kg packs.by SteveCarr - AFIBBERS FORUM
Barbara : 1) Yes, I pretty-much avoid grains -- but I'm not fanatical about it. Maybe a grain-containing food once per week in some treat or other. I am more rigorous about dairy -- I know by heart now (in more ways than one!) what the calcium contents of foods are, and since I eat 6 eggs per day the amount of calcium in those alone leaves basically no room for dairy! But again, I might hby SteveCarr - AFIBBERS FORUM
Barbcat : I currently consume 420mg of calcium per day and 5,000 IU of D3 five days per week (ie 25,000 IU per week). I have ZERO afib and ZERO ectopics at those levels. That amount of VitD keeps my serum (blood) VitD at a "Paleo" level, ie about 165 nmol/L or 65 ng/ml -- or what people naturally plateau at if they spend a lot of time with much skin sun-exposed. That dose keeps it arby SteveCarr - AFIBBERS FORUM
JDfiB, I don't take any medication, and as far as I know, neither does GeorgeN (at least not regularly).by SteveCarr - AFIBBERS FORUM
In the earlier 06/01/2019 thread “Aura Migraines/AFIB”, it was revealed that at least two individuals who suffered from both Afib and Aura Migraines have eliminated both ailments by reducing their total dietary calcium intake (substantially). Beyond those specific cases, it is fairly common knowledge on this site, but not sufficiently discussed, that at least some reduction of afib burden canby SteveCarr - AFIBBERS FORUM
Interesting thread. I’ve had many aura migraines, for over 50 years since my teens, as has my son, now 28, since his teens. We were both always heavy consumers of milk (and therefore calcium). Since I have slashed my Ca intake to eliminate my Afib (as per my website carrafibdietinfo.com and a few posts on this site), my migraines have plummeted and the rare ones I now have are tiny compared tby SteveCarr - AFIBBERS FORUM
JohnnyS : Now learning that you use that much Mg per day, at a very low Ca intake, one wonders whether if (ie I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out) that has something to do with your otherwise very curious observation of serum Ca and ectopics increasing whenever you increase Vit D. They all act on each other, and the feedback loops are so labyrinthine that nothing would surprise unless yby SteveCarr - AFIBBERS FORUM
Catherine: Dried cranberries I haven't tried (as a regular dose for afib), but the only common ones here are loaded with sugar anyway. Fresh are unavailable here. I permanently use frozen, which are no-added-sugar and are perfectly economical (need to blend them with other fruit/veg to eat any quantity). More details on my website.by SteveCarr - AFIBBERS FORUM
johnnyS: The diet you indicate does sound as though it could reflect a Ca intake below 200mg, depending upon what quantity of salmon you are talking about and whether you eat the bones -- but probably you've looked at that since you're obviously taking it seriously. According to what you write, there are no other obvious traps like the Ca-fortified flours/grains/cereals that are so commby SteveCarr - AFIBBERS FORUM
Thanks to all who have responded. Please excuse my brevity in the following replies (listed in the same order as the responses to my post above). mwcf : Yes, "reducing (rather than increasing) Ca", is what I'm suggesting too (and what I do). I tried to make that clear. The minutiae of exactly what happens by the time we get to the intracellular level are just one more thingby SteveCarr - AFIBBERS FORUM
Thanks to all who have responded. Please excuse my brevity in the following replies (listed in the same order as responses to my post above). Gill : Yes, Katesshadow's Ca was low not high, yet the fix appears to be low Ca intake (at highVitD). That is the entire "paradox" that I'm highlighting, and what I'm suggesting is the obscuring factor that has prevented recby SteveCarr - AFIBBERS FORUM
Four topics below this one is the topic of "Low Calcium Related to Heart Rhythm", with a first post by Katesshadow. IMHO that first post and the initial two replies to it are absolutely central to the cause and remission of much Lone atrial fibrillation, and the whole issue should receive MUCH wider coverage and debate so that more people can enjoy the benefits of complete remissionby SteveCarr - AFIBBERS FORUM
I’ve previously commented on this site (although not for quite a while: eg before Carey was a regular contributor I think) about my own complete remission from 10 years of severe paroxysmal Lone Afib and extremely frequent ectopics, without ablation or medication. I also provided a link to my own website where I describe in detail how that was and is accomplished. I do not normally post here simpby SteveCarr - AFIBBERS FORUM
This thread is excellent. There's consensus that reviving and clarifying "The List" and all the various reports of non-ablation success is of paramount importance. Those are what set this site apart and what truly need to be brought back to centre stage. Combined with some evidently active and motivated new posters, the scene would be set for ongoing experimentation and improvementby SteveCarr - AFIBBERS FORUM
Hi Ben, In my opinion, it is reckless to go for an ablation at your age without ensuring you have done all possible to avoid it. Have you ensured that your vitamin D is DEFINITELY at a level of 70 ng/mL (~170 nmol/L)???? You need a blood test for that, and unless you spend a lot of time shirtless in the sun, or are taking around 5,000 iu of vitamin D per day, it is CERTAIN that it is not.by SteveCarr - AFIBBERS FORUM
George and Jackie, Just small points: George -- it wouldn’t be amazing if your calcium intake was now even lower than before your stress-eating calcium episode, understandably due to extra-rigorous dietary scrutiny (if even subconsciously) resulting from the return of afib from that calcium. If that is the case, you may well have much more room to reduce magnesium than thought. But as I said bby SteveCarr - AFIBBERS FORUM
As posted on this site a while ago, after nine years of increasing afib attacks, peaking at several hours duration every eight days, I've now been totally free of both afib and ectopic beats for approaching two and a half years -- achieved by diet alone, without using supplements or medication of any kind (and without an ablation).* In the very recent thread: ”24 years ago the stage wasby SteveCarr - AFIBBERS FORUM
Many thanks to those who've read and commented. Answers to questions: Colindo: no, I don't take statins or any medications of any kind (maybe two acetaminophen tablets per year). I completely doubt that it's cholesterol, or any variations in levels of it, that's had any bearing on the presence or absence of afib. I've always had exceptionally "good" cholesteby SteveCarr - AFIBBERS FORUM