Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's September 28, 2019 05:33PM |
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Re: Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's. September 28, 2019 07:35PM |
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Re: Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's. September 28, 2019 07:49PM |
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The Anti-Fib
I know this subject has been covered here before at length. I have read some of the old Threads, and if someone refers me to another old Post, that is fine. Bypassing the question of whether or not something like Nattokinese can replace, or is advisable in comparison with taking a real NOAC or Warfarin, I ask the following:
1) What is the best alternative option? Natto/Nattokinase has been discussed. Should other substances like Fish Oil be taken with the Natto?
2) Is there a test to determine if an alternative Blood Thinner is working? If I get a PT/INR blood test and it shows that my blood is taking long enough to Coagulate, then am I sufficiently covered?
3) Why is not PT/INR tested at baseline prior to initiating Anti-Coagulation therapy? Or does this test not analyze everything involved in accessing and preventing Clot formation?
Thankyou for any and all responses however brief or long.
Re: Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's. September 29, 2019 08:41AM |
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Re: Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's. September 29, 2019 11:19AM |
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Re: Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's. September 29, 2019 02:30PM |
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Re: Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's. September 30, 2019 07:07AM |
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Re: Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's. September 30, 2019 07:43AM |
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Re: Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's. September 30, 2019 12:12PM |
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The Anti-Fib
Maybe a Blood viscosity test would help define this?
Re: Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's. September 30, 2019 02:55PM |
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colindo
Before having a stroke I would think your blood would be in bad shape and your artries would be clogged up with calcium and fat etc.
Re: Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's. September 30, 2019 08:21PM |
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Carey
Before having a stroke I would think your blood would be in bad shape and your arteries would be clogged up with calcium and fat etc.
Not necessarily. Perfectly healthy young people with pristine arteries can and do suffer strokes.
Re: Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's. September 30, 2019 09:22PM |
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colindo
What then causes the stroke?
A new water pipe won't block, a rusty one will.
Re: Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's. October 01, 2019 11:40AM |
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Re: Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's. October 01, 2019 01:40PM |
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safib
However, there seems to be no evidence that natto is useful for afib related stroke. In fact, one study shows that a very large dosage of natto is required to achieve the same anticoagulative effect as a standard dosage of aspirin at least in an animal model. This suggests why natto may not be effective against afib, i.e., because it has too weak of an anticoagulant action for afib type clots.
Re: Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's. October 01, 2019 03:14PM |
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colindo
That was one test, I have seen a test where by Natto's effectiveness is not far behind warfarin, which I can't find at the moment.
If I recall correctly the new anticoagulant were 70% effective, warfarin 60% and Natto 55%. Something in that order.
Re: Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's. October 01, 2019 05:16PM |
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colindo
That was one test, I have seen a test where by Natto's effectiveness is not far behind warfarin, which I can't find at the moment.
If I recall correctly the new anticoagulant were 70% effective, warfarin 60% and Natto 55%. Something in that order.
But Natto is so much more because it also lowers fibrinogen levels, it dissolves calcium and transports it to your bones where it belongs. It dissolves clots, and its very kind to your gut.
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colindo
I know of the story of a lady who took nattokinase and had a stroke and was advise by her doctor not to. But there is no guarantee she would have avoided the stroke taking warfarin or one of the other anticoagulant.
Re: Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's. October 01, 2019 06:54PM |
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Re: Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's. October 01, 2019 07:03PM |
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Re: Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's. October 01, 2019 09:48PM |
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colindo
I know you and Carey are Natto knockers and what ever I have to say you are going to kick holes in it.
Re: Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's. October 02, 2019 12:25PM |
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Re: Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's. October 03, 2019 02:07AM |
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Re: Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's. October 03, 2019 08:52AM |
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<[www.afibbers.org]Quote
Shannon
I was on Cardiokinase at 100mg 3x/day, which is the most potent form of Nattokinase, when I had my small stroke. While concerning, its quite possible that if my stroke was due to necrotic debris from my previously closed LAA for some months, during which obvious necrosis would have taken place, and then upon the leak opening up and re-establishing blood flow between the LAA and Left atrium some of this necrotic debris could well have washed out of the remnant LAA pouch and gone right to the brain.
Re: Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's. October 03, 2019 01:39PM |
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Re: Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's. October 03, 2019 04:29PM |
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Re: Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's. October 03, 2019 07:26PM |
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Re: Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's. October 06, 2019 09:13AM |
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Re: Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's. October 16, 2019 05:14AM |
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Re: Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's. October 16, 2019 06:58PM |
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Joe
Anti-Afib i've been wondering as well - why don't they test the clotting factors/viscosity etc of one's blood prior to prescribing anti-coagulants.
Re: Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's. October 17, 2019 01:08AM |
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Re: Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's. October 17, 2019 01:43PM |
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Carey
So your job is to find a step in that cascade of events that you can interrupt to prevent clots from forming, but you can't interrupt it completely or your patient will bleed to death. I think that sounds like the work of an entire research career.
Re: Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's. October 17, 2019 03:16PM |
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Re: Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's. October 17, 2019 04:22PM |
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Re: Alternative AntiCoagulation to Warfarin/NOAC's. October 17, 2019 05:59PM |
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colindo
Nattokinase is a fibrinolytic enzyme, which means that it has the ability to break down or "degrade" excessive fibrin that our bodies produce when recovering from injuries or other health issues.