Cardiokinase

Hi all.

I expect to be cleared to discontinue Xarelto in a few days having just finished my 7-day monitoring and remaining afib free since my January ablation by Dr. Natale.

I would like to start cardiokinase and resume fish oil as soon as I stop the Xarelto, to prevent hyperviscosity and to keep my blood thinned as possible by natural means.

I noticed cardiokinase isn't cheap. Any brands that rise to the top in terms of quality at best price? Stick to the package dosing of 3 softgels daily or a different amount?

Regarding fish oil, I know the best brands. How many grams daily...I've seen recommendations in the 4-6 gram range?

Finally, if I start on cardiokinase and high-dose fish oil, I am aware of the benefits, but are there any known risks? For example, is there any evidence that this combination, as maintenance therapy for the long-term, could create problems with bleeding as is the case with major anti-coagulants?

Thanks!

Hi Randy,

Is there a plan to transition you off Xeralto or will you just start natural means immediately?

Congrats on your post ablation NSR!

Thanks

Craig

Craig, hi. There is no plan to transition me off Xarelto. I assume it is an abrupt discontinue type thing, but I'll ask once I get the go ahead from Dr. Natale. One non-cardio holistic doc I consulted recommended a cross-over plan whereby I start nattokinase and fish oil 48 hours before stopping the Xarelto, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable doing this.

To all: I should have read before posting. Jackie and Hans put together a wealth of information on nattokinase answering most of my questions in Conference Room Proceedings 39 and 40 (updated to 2007).

I've now read those, obviously a lot of time and effort went into them (thanks again, Jackie and Hans), and when I get time, I'll summarize what I found relevant to my current situation of planning to start nattokinase and fish oil soon. One concern that did emerge is the lowering of blood pressure typically seen with nattokinase. Mine is normal but on the low end, wouldn't want much of a drop, something to monitor, hope it doesn't preclude my being able to go on maintenance nattokinase.

Thank you for the reply Randy! I'm also on Xeralto and hope Dr Natale will eventually take me off. I'm only 8 weeks post ablation so I'm guessing it will be awhile. A freind of mine is an ER doc who despises the drug industry and is a strong advocate for holistic medicine. He told me it can be dangerous to stop Xeralto cold turkey. He says the blood can actually be more prone to clots for a period of time following termination of Xeralto. He suggested I approach this with Dr Natale but also suggested I consiider nattokinase as a transition from Xeralto. He also suggest fish oil. He personally does not take nattokinase as a maintainance supplement. He does take it anytime he takes flights of any duration. He feels it is good protection from developing blood clots while in flight.

I'll also check the Conference Room detail.

Thanks

Craig

Randy - My natural Bp is typically around 116/65 and I've been using nattokinase regularly since my ablation in 2003. I didn't notice a change or lowering from my normal. When I did my initial consulting with various people including Dr. Holsworth, who were back then just starting to promote the benefits of using this fibrinolytic enzyme, there were no caveats about having it lower your blood pressure too much. I also use generous doses 4 grams (at least) daily of Omega 3 fish oil, vitamin E, 800 IU, Curcumin for inflammation, and a product by Designs for Health (Inflammatone), and Ginkgo biloba. Also, magnesium is anti-platelet aggregation.

As mentioned in the quoted post that follows... be sure once you are off the anti-coags to monitor your fibrinogen level and the HS -CRP routinely as indicators. My FM MD does all of the markers periodically as they all contribute to elevated blood viscosity.. .ie, besides the fibrinogen, and CRP... as outlined in the Red Flags post of long ago...

Red Flags to Beat the Odds
PREDICTING YOUR RISK FOR HEART ATTACK OR STROKE –THE SILENT SYMPTOMS
[www.afibbers.org]

Note: Interleukin is not on that post… it’s an important measurement to rule out inflammation.
Integrative Cardiologist Stephen Sinatra says:

Interleukin-6 is important because it stimulates the liver to produce CRP. And, in addition to heart disease, we are learning that this cytokine has a strong association with asthma (asthma is the result of airways swelling and constricting, so it makes sense that an inflammatory agent is behind the curtains here as well). The Iowa 65+ Rural Health Study demonstrated that elevations of interleukin-6 and CRP were associated with increased risk of both heart disease and general mortality in healthy older people.

I’m convinced that interleukin-6 may be an even better marker for inflammation than CRP because these “precursor” levels rise earlier. Therefore you should ask your doctor to conduct an interleukin-6 test.


There are other natural substances that also help to keep your blood from being thick and sticky as offered in those posts by that name..
Sticky, thick blood and the risk of stroke and MI with a focus on preventing silent inflammation that works behind the scenes and causes the clotting tendency as well. "

The following is a response some time ago on blood hyperviscosity.

........" Inflammation is a huge stroke-risk influence player and that’s why the higher doses of Omega 3’s are so important…both for inflammation modulation and the slippery platelet factor.

If you want to get into this from a causative factor, I suggest you Google some of these descriptive words as related to carotid artery involvement… Some years ago, I recall reading about causes of stroke traced to carotid artery blockage and plaque rupture. I can’t quote this verbatim but I believe the reasoning went something like this

The carotid is bifurcated.. (branched) and at the juncture of the bifurcation, the tendency is for atherosclerotic plaque to build because of the increased shear stress in areas of arterial branches higher risk of embolic clot formation…There is both high and low shear stress which cause endothelial dysfunction which then leads to formation of atherosclerotic lesions.

The forces of blood flow have various descriptive names… turbulent flow, pulsatile blood flow and laminar blood flow (I looked this one up in the book) and describe blood velocity flow profiles – that cause various problem areas). The engineers here will relate to this and the other descriptive term, tangential force flow.

Shear stress can result in a damage that is repaired by fibrin, fats and, of course, minerals collect and contribute to a hardened structure which encroaches on the interior diameter of the artery and reduces flow…. Plus, the more rapid flow in those area causes damage at those area and there is a higher degree of inflammation and also oxidative stress. Atherosclerosis is known to have a high prevalence in the carotid artery (and also coronary arteries).

The interior lining of the blood vessel..in this case the artery… called endothelial lining …is reactive to shear stress and the ROS… Reactive Oxygen Species that directly affects the action of nitric oxide on those endothelial cells… often adverse reactions. So Inflammation and ROS are major culprits in setting up the endothelial lining to trouble areas.

Major research was done several years ago by the late Ken Kensey, MD, who developed hemorheology testing for blood viscosity and linked blood viscosity, elevated fibrinogen, inflammation and such to a higher incidence of developing atherosclerosis and therefore stroke risk in areas such as the carotid artery. The dynamics of blood viscosity are discussed in his book, The Origins of Atherosclerosis: What Really Initiates the Inflammatory Process. The thickness or stickiness or fluidity of blood (or fluid) relates to its flow resistance.

Dr. Kensey’s diagnostic technology is used in the recently-introduced Hemathix testing at Meridian Valley Laboratories. See the posts on blood viscosity monitoring… and the articles by Drs. Pushpa Larsen and Ralph Holsworth that appeared in Townsend Letter. [www.townsendletter.com] (has a good research reference list as well).."

If you didn’t see the post on Thick Sticky blood – risk for stroke or MI… read here:
[www.afibbers.org] - be sure you do the marker testing regularly.

Protect against elevated blood viscosity if there is a history by keeping Omega 3 intake 6 grams a day; monitor fibrinogen levels regularly and use CardioKinase at the recommended higher doses if elevated. Magnesium serves to keep platelets from aggregating. Various herbals are well known to reduce inflammation … Curcumin in the C3 form.. ginger, boswellia, Quercetin, Rutin, Rosemary and protease enzymes all are known to reduce the inflammatory response. The combo product, Zyflamend has been a favorite of many afibbers. And the bioflavonoid, ginkgo biloba, has anticlotting properties similar to aspirin but without the adverse effects of aspirin. The garlic compound, ajoene that is in macerated garlic products containing Garlicillin or allicillin is also a helpful bioflavonoid.

I just read a reminder comment to be sure that Vitamin D levels are adequate to avoid sulfate deficiency (which could be an underlying cause of arterial plaque build-up). If you haven’t had your vitamin D checked… the 25 OH D test… be sure you do that. You want to be at least 50..ng/ml and preferably 60 – 70… if treating cancer or heart disease, 70-100. Over 100 is excess.

Years ago, it was common for doctors to routinely examine the carotid artery health by auscultation (listening with the stethoscope) to detect signs of bruit (brew-ee) sounds… a noise that indicates abnormal, turbulent blood flow in the carotids which could indicate stenosis. Today, it seems rare for a doctor to check. So easy to do while listening to heart and lungs. " end of post.

Go here to read more about the ginkgo recommendation....to help prevent platelet aggregation. It acts similarly to aspirin but without the adverse effects of daily aspirin. Check this clip from one of his Blaylock Wellness Reports and the Q/A section about blood clots. [www.justlikesugar.ca]

Lots of options to keep your blood viscosity in the safe range.

Jackie

Sorry to delay reply, been very busy. Thanks for the additional great information, Jackie.

I'm pricing the purified form of nattokinase (NSK-SD) now and finding significant variation:

Allergy Research Group wants $118 for 180 softgels (100mg)
Nutricology thru Swanson wants $60 for 180 softgels (100mg).
Pure Prescriptions wants $113 for 120 softgels (100mg).

All are the purified form NSK-SD and all provide 2000FU's per softgel.

How can Nutricology be 1/2 of what Allergy Research Group wants for the same product? Is anyone finding even better prices than Nutricology?

Thanks!

Randy - Long ago, the discrepancy in the quality of NK products was discussed and what was initially considered to be the "gold standard" in labeling, the NSK-SD designation, is no longer valid apparently because no one monitors what's actually in the bottle compared to the NSK-SD label. Therefore, there are a lot of imposter nattokinases infringing on the NK patent being bottled and sold that are substandard

Cardiokinase, while pricey, it is reliable... as verified on the .

Another similar fibrinolytic agent is that from earthworms, (lumbrokinase) or Boulouke. It's also pricey but highly effective and used by Integrative Physician Garry Gordon MD for many years. He says he has never had a heart patient have a MI or stroke while on that.

Best to you,
Jackie