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Flu Shot ?

Posted by smackman 
Flu Shot ?
November 27, 2017 10:08AM
I would like to hear the pros and cons of taking a flu shot with Affibers.
I am not in Afib and doing well. I just like to hear from the pros here about the yearly flu shot.
Re: Flu Shot ?
November 27, 2017 10:36AM
If you're not allergic to eggs, why would you not get a flu shot? It has nothing to do with afib.

People underestimate the flu. It's not the cold many people think it is. On average about 36,000 people die of influenza in the US every year. The last time I had flu was 1989. It put me in bed for a week, off work for two weeks, and feeling like crap for a month. I haven't missed a flu shot since.
Re: Flu Shot ?
November 27, 2017 02:23PM
Hi David - Glad you are doing well. You asked. Here's my opinion based on my experience.

How's your overall immune system function? Do you often get colds and flu? I think a lot depends on 1) your immune system and 2) how much exposure in public places you get daily during the flu season?

When I worked as a hygienist, I was always nose-to-nose with patients and even with the face mask barrier, some years I'd get a cold or flu even though I always got the flu shot. Once I quit working because of Afib, I decided to focus on shoring up my immune system, etc with nutritional protocols and stopped the flu shots because I had studied all of the negative concerns about the additional contaminants in the vaccines that I wasn't keen on having injected into my body.

That was over 20 years ago and during those years, fortunately, I've had only one cold and one short case of flu. I'm out in the public daily and work out at the gym where the jocks don't hesitate to cough, sneeze and sweat all over the equipment so I'm careful to wipe down and wash hands but I feel very protected, regardless.

One of my standbys for preventive 'insurance' is to use the liposomal form of vitamin C... (one 1,000 mg packet is the equivalency of 3,000 - 4,000 mg of vitamin C powder). If I ever think I'm feeling a cold symptom, I double the dose a couple times a day for 2-3 days and without fail, I'm good to go. Symptoms gone.

I know many people who always get the annual flu shot and end up getting the flu anyway; so, I truly think that working on supporting one's own immune system is an important factor.

Best to you,
Jackie
Joe
Re: Flu Shot ?
November 27, 2017 03:16PM
I'm with Jackie on this one. Flu shots 'protect' for how many varieties of flu virus? They don't state what ajuvants they contain, do they? I'm a cynic and think that the flu shot business (while there are some preventative benefits) are more beneficial for the givers than the receivers.
Re: Flu Shot ?
November 27, 2017 03:45PM
I never got a Flu shot ever. Have'nt had the Flu in 30 years. I have an over-reative Immune system.
Re: Flu Shot ?
November 27, 2017 06:02PM
I love flu shot discussions. They're always dominated immediately by people who never get flu shots, people who swear they don't work, and people who swear by holistic alternatives.

Meanwhile, the data are indisputable but nobody wants to discuss data.
Re: Flu Shot ?
November 27, 2017 09:09PM
From the CDC: <[www.cdc.gov]

"CDC conducts studies each year to determine how well the influenza (flu) vaccine protects against flu illness. While vaccine effectiveness can vary, recent studies show that flu vaccination reduces the risk of flu illness by between 40% and 60% among the overall population during seasons when most circulating flu viruses are well-matched to the flu vaccine. In general, current flu vaccines tend to work better against influenza B and influenza A(H1N1) viruses and offer lower protection against influenza A(H3N2) viruses. "

Flu vaccine safety, from CDC: <[www.cdc.gov]

"Some studies have found a possible small association of injectable flu vaccine with Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS). Overall, these studies estimated the risk for GBS after vaccination as fewer than 1 or 2 cases of GBS per one million people vaccinated. Other studies have not found any association. GBS also, rarely, occurs after flu illness. Even though GBS following flu illness is rare, GBS is more common following flu illness than following flu vaccination. GBS has not been associated with the nasal spray vaccine."

That being said, one of by friends got GBS from the vaccine. It changed his life forever (he can barely walk & talk).. Though statistically it makes sense to get one, I have not gotten one in 40+ years because of that (nor have I gotten the flu). - My n=1 means nothing statistically.

Because of my genetics, if I were to get one, I'd request the pediatric one without thimerosal.

<[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
"For healthy adults, the flu shot reduces the influenza rate when the vaccine is well matched (number needed to treat [NNT] of 12 to 37). A poorly matched vaccine has diminished effectiveness. For community-dwelling seniors, the NNT to prevent 1 case of influenza is 40. The flu shot has not been shown to decrease hospitalizations. Evidence that the flu shot decreases mortality is likely biased."

From Cochrane: <[www.cochrane.org]

"Influenza vaccines have a very modest effect in reducing influenza symptoms and working days lost in the general population, including pregnant women. No evidence of association between influenza vaccination and serious adverse events was found in the comparative studies considered in the review. This review includes 90 studies, 24 of which (26.7%) were funded totally or partially by industry. Out of the 48 RCTs, 17 were industry-funded (35.4%)."



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2017 09:19PM by GeorgeN.
Re: Flu Shot ?
November 27, 2017 10:05PM
If you're going to quote studies on infectious diseases, you need to include the other ones for balance. Sure, GBS is a terrible outcome, but so is being dead, which is a far more likely outcome.

Don't worry, 1918 will repeat itself. It's just a matter of time. For those of you interested in infectious diseases it's a fascinating look at a global pandemic and how it broke all the expected rules.
Joe
Re: Flu Shot ?
November 28, 2017 02:36AM
Are flu shots still optional in the US? I know with other immunization your government is fascistic and makers of vaccines can't be taken to court if the product turns out to have been dodgy?
BTW, i'm for immunization and free choice but wouldn't wan't to have everything under the sun that is promoted.
Re: Flu Shot ?
November 28, 2017 06:27AM
The 1918 Flu was bad. My Great-Uncle was a Medic at Ft. Riley. They were swamped with sick and drying Soldiers. He got got the Flu also. He died, and they took his body outside to a make-shift Morgue, and sent a courier to notify of his passing. When my relatives got to the Fort to pick up his body, they found out that he somehow was still alive, being incorrectly taken for dead. They took him home and he recovered.
Re: Flu Shot ?
November 28, 2017 07:56AM
Quote
Carey
If you're going to quote studies on infectious diseases, you need to include the other ones for balance. Sure, GBS is a terrible outcome, but so is being dead, which is a far more likely outcome.

Don't worry, 1918 will repeat itself. It's just a matter of time. For those of you interested in infectious diseases it's a fascinating look at a global pandemic and how it broke all the expected rules.

Here is what you are asking for, study compilations from the CDC. <[www.cdc.gov]

Overall Vaccine Effectiveness (VE) % ranged from 10%-60%.


Season (year), Study, Site(s), No. of Patients , VE ( 3rd from last number), 95% CI (last 2 numbers)
2004-05 Belongia 2009 WI 762 10 -36, 40
2005-06 Belongia 2009 WI 346 21 -52, 59
2006-07 Belongia 2009 WI 871 52 22 ,70
2007-08 Belongia 2011 WI 1914 37 22, 49
2009-10 Griffin 2011 WI, MI, NY, TN 6757 56 23, 75
2010-11 Treanor 2011 WI, MI, NY, TN 4757 60 53, 66
2011-12 Ohmit 2014 WI, MI, PA, TX, WA 4771 47 36, 56
2012-13 McLean 2014 WI, MI, PA, TX, WA 6452 49 43, 55
2013-14 Unpublished WI, MI, PA, TX,WA 5990 51 43, 58
2014-15 ACIP presentation, Flannery WI, MI, PA, TX, WA 9329 23 14, 31
2015-16* ACIP presentation, Flannery WI, MI, PA, TX,WA 7563 47* 39, 53*

Not arguing that flu isn't bad. Most general public think that vaccines are 100% effective. They are not.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/2017 08:00AM by GeorgeN.
Re: Flu Shot ?
November 28, 2017 10:45AM
Quote
Joe
Are flu shots still optional in the US? I know with other immunization your government is fascistic and makers of vaccines can't be taken to court if the product turns out to have been dodgy?

I don't know where you get your information but you need a better source.
Re: Flu Shot ?
November 28, 2017 10:47AM
Quote
GeorgeN
Not arguing that flu isn't bad. Most general public think that vaccines are 100% effective. They are not.

No vaccine is 100% effective and I don't' know that the general public necessarily thinks so.
Ken
Re: Flu Shot ?
November 28, 2017 02:08PM
Why not get the shot?

"The CDC recommends that all American adults get a flu vaccine every year. Even though the current vaccine is not perfect, there are many good reasons for you to get it. The vaccine does reduce your chance of getting the flu, especially when it matches up well with dominant flu strains.
The benefits of flu vaccine are particularly impressive in older adults. If you are 65 or older, it lowers your risk of death by 48%. One reason for this lowered risk is that getting the flu increases your risk of developing bacterial pneumonia, which is responsible for many hospitalizations and deaths. But this is not the only reason.

Inflammation is bad for your body, and increases your risk of heart attack or stroke. If you’ve ever had full-blown flu, and you remember how feverish, achy, and miserable you felt, you know that influenza is great at filling your body with inflammation. So, as you might expect, another benefit of the flu vaccine is that it reduces your risk of heart attack and stroke."

From a 2015 article: [www.health.harvard.edu][/url]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/2017 02:09PM by Ken.
Re: Flu Shot ?
November 28, 2017 04:01PM
Quote
Ken
Why not get the shot?

My (tested) genetics clear many of the additives very slowly and therefore this creates an Alz D risk. This is me, not suggesting for anyone else. All my serum inflammatory markers are stellar as are my immune markers. I'll take the flu risk rather than the known increase in memory issues with my genetics. Always tradeoffs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/2017 11:13PM by GeorgeN.
Re: Flu Shot ?
November 28, 2017 04:23PM
Ken - While I've not had the genetic testing... my immune system markers and inflammation markers are also great at age 81. In addition to the immune system support nutrients, I add extra vitamin D during the cold and flu season and that definitely helps boost immunity. My Functional Medicine MD tests periodically so all is in proper range.

Jackie
Re: Flu Shot ?
November 28, 2017 11:16PM
I keep my 25OHD level > 120 ng/mL (300 nmol/L) & basically don't get sick even though many around me are sick all the time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/2017 11:17PM by GeorgeN.
Re: Flu Shot ?
November 29, 2017 08:45AM
Yes, George... Great. I'm sure keeping the vitamin D levels elevated contributes to my success as well as it has worked for so many years.

Jackie
Re: Flu Shot ?
November 29, 2017 06:49PM
Just got my shot today. IMO, the statistics are clear. Flu is a killer.
Re: Flu Shot ?
November 30, 2017 08:47AM
Last night's news reported officials at the National Institutes of Health predict this season’s flu vaccine may only be 10 percent effective – but that Americans are still better off getting it.
Re: Flu Shot ?
November 30, 2017 11:54AM
Jackie:

I'm with you, I have never gotten a Flu shot, I live out in the country, raise a lot of my food, try to keep healthy. My mother went through that flu epidemic of 1918, my uncles, aunt, grandparents and didn't get the flu. They lived on a farm so they were more isolated, I would think that people living in close proximity to one another like the cities were more prone to getting the flu. Anyway we do what we think is right for ourselves.

Liz
Re: Flu Shot ?
November 30, 2017 01:23PM
I also get a flu shot. With the flu shot the data shows a much higher percentage avoid hospitalization and death versus simply avoiding the disease, and the risk of getting Alzheimer's is actually decreased.
Re: Flu Shot ?
November 30, 2017 03:02PM
Quote
Elizabeth
Jackie:

I'm with you, I have never gotten a Flu shot, I live out in the country, raise a lot of my food, try to keep healthy. My mother went through that flu epidemic of 1918, my uncles, aunt, grandparents and didn't get the flu. They lived on a farm so they were more isolated, I would think that people living in close proximity to one another like the cities were more prone to getting the flu. Anyway we do what we think is right for ourselves.

Liz

Physical isolation can certainly factor into the decision to vaccinate or not; however, in many folks' cases (my own included) we are commuting to work 5 days a week. I, for instance, could find myself on an airplane flying cross country on just a day's notice. With such little control over my surroundings and interactions with numerous people from all over the world, I've chosen to vaccinate myself and family.

I certainly hope this year's batch is better than the 10% effectiveness reported above. Last March I was sidelined by the flu with 104.1F fever for two days and unable to move. I narrowly avoided hospitalization by sleeping naked in freezing weather to break the darn thing. It was not fun.
Re: Flu Shot ?
November 30, 2017 04:15PM
Yes, Liz - as I commented in my initial response to Smackman... a lot depends on the current status and functionality of one's immune system and how much 'community' exposure one has. To me, it makes sense to optimize that status continually because flu isn't the only health hazard influenced by a weakened immune system. Of course, everyone has different requirements to reach and maintain that status consistently. I stick to the core protocol that works for me regardless of the season or where I'm traveling, flying or participating.

It's certainly an individual choice. I'm more than happy with my success and I'm certainly not living in isolation.

Be well,
Jackie
Re: Flu Shot ?
November 30, 2017 06:14PM
The interesting thing about the 1918 flu was that instead of killing the very young and very old as is usually the case, it selectively killed young adults in the prime of life. The middle-aged and older, and the very young were largely spared. Soldiers were very heavily affected with nearly entire camps coming down with it.

It was also downright vicious. People would wake up feeling fine, symptoms would appear suddenly in the afternoon, that night they'd start coughing up blood, and they'd be dead by morning.

Isolation certainly matters with any infectious disease, but that's hard to achieve. Even in 1918 during a world war the pandemic spread worldwide. Today a similar flu would spread as fast as jets can fly.
Re: Flu Shot ?
December 02, 2017 01:05PM
Following are a couple of informative clips from the November 2017 issue of Blaylock Wellness Report which is devoted to vaccines.

Dr. Russell Blaylock is a nationally recognized, board-certified neurosurgeon, health practitioner, author, and
lecturer. He attended the Louisiana State University School of Medicine in New Orleans and completed his
internship and neurosurgical residency at the Medical University of South Carolina in Charleston, S.C. For 25
years, he has practiced neurosurgery in addition to having a nutritional practice. He recently retired from his
neurosurgical duties to devote his full attention to nutritional studies and research.


Quote:
Studies: Flu Vaccines Don’t Benefit Adults
Most doctors get their vaccine information from the
CDC, which they assume is a reliable, highly scientific,
independent agency that has the best interests of the
public in mind.

Nothing could be further from the truth.
The CDC is one of the most corrupt arms of the
federal government. It owns more than 20 patents on
vaccines and according to activist and author Robert
F. Kennedy Jr., the CDC makes $4.6 billion in profits
from vaccine sales per year.

Pharmaceutical companies virtually own the CDC.
This corruption also extends to medical insurance
companies. For example, Blue Cross Blue Shield
financially punishes pediatricians who do not fully
vaccinate their patients.

Dr. Paul Thomas has explained that his medical
practice is rated by his insurance company for vaccine
compliance, and that pediatricians are given substantial
rewards for each child fully vaccinated on the CDC
schedule. Conversely, the doctors are punished if they
do not follow the schedule.

Pediatricians are paid $12 to $14 per shot. That
becomes a large part of the doctor’s income. This
explains why they get angry when mothers refuse to
follow their vaccine recommendations.

Dr. Thomas estimated that by not following the
CDC recommendations, he has lost more than $1
million dollars in payments.

One of the most impressive academic reviews on
vaccines was reported in the “Archives of Internal
Medicine.” It looked at studies covering 33 flu
seasons over 20 years involving people in multiple
communities.24

In 1980, only about 15 percent of elderly people
received the flu vaccine. By 2001, about 65 percent got
the vaccine. You would have expected to see fewer deaths
from the flu, as well as hospitalization, incidences of
pneumonia, and loss work. But the review found no
benefit from the vaccine in any of these areas. Other
studies have confirmed and extended these findings.25



Important Books and a Video on Vaccines
(from page 9)

The Vaccine Safety Manuel for Concerned Families and Health Practitioners
by Neil Z. Miller. This is an extensive review of all the major vaccines along
with analysis of numerous studies. I wrote the foreward to the book.

Miller’s Review of Critical Vaccine Studies
by Neil Z. Miller. This book contains all the major studies concerning vaccine safety and
effectiveness. Each of the studies is analyzed for the major findings.


Saying No to Vaccines: A Resource Guide for All Ages
by Sherri Tenpenny, D.O. Sherri is one of the leading experts on vaccine
safety and has written an excellent guide and analysis on vaccine safety.

Vaccine Whistleblower: Exposing Autism Research Fraud at the CDC
by Kevin Barry, Esq. This book exposes how the CDC purposefully
covered up data that proved a link between certain vaccines and autism.

A Shot in the Dark
by Harris L. Coulter and Barbara Loe Fisher.
This is the book that started the investigation into vaccine safety.
It mainly discusses the danger of the pertussis vaccine, but also
demonstrates how scientific fraud works.

Thimerosal: Let the Science Speak
by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.
This book discusses all the major information, based on the best
science, concerning the harmful effect of thimerosal, the mercury-
containing additive in vaccines.


Dissolving Illusions: Disease, Vaccines, and the Forgotten History
by Suzanne Humphries, M.D., and Roman Bystianyk. This book is a
treasury of information and history of infectious diseases and vaccines
by a recognized expert in the field.


The Truth About Vaccines.
In this seven-episode set of DVDs, prominent experts of vaccine safety are interviewed.
Comes with a written transcript. It is excellent. It is hosted by Ty Bollinger.

24. Simonsen L et al. Arch Inter Med 2005;265-72.

25. Thompson RE et al. Cochrane Database Syst Rev 2013; No 7, CD005187.[/small]

Subscriptions to Blaylock Wellness Report : [www.blaylockreport.com]

There is also a segment titled Better Ways to Prevent and Treat the Flu
that may be of interest to those who forego the annual vaccine shot. Glad to share with you... just send me a PM.

Healthy regards to all,
Jackie
Re: Flu Shot ?
December 02, 2017 01:54PM
Jackie;

Thank you for your splendid reporting on an important subject.

liz
Re: Flu Shot ?
December 02, 2017 05:10PM
I'm not going to waste my time addressing some of the utter nonsense and outright lies posted above.
Joe
Re: Flu Shot ?
December 02, 2017 05:48PM
Can't really speculate on the lies given my dodgy sources.

Did listen to a talk by Suzanne Humphries, M.D. and thought that she is extremely well qualified and able to talk sense.

I do think that flu shots, given that the exact strains have been chosen, do give a person immunity - at least to a degree. Of course, there are better ways of preventing a really bad flu but most people won't have the discipline or opportunity to achieve that. I choose not to have that stuff injected into me - not even if they payed mespinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Quote

The CDC is one of the most corrupt arms of the federal government. It owns more than 20 patents on vaccines and according to activist and author Robert F. Kennedy Jr., the CDC makes $4.6 billion in profits from vaccine sales per year.
If that is indeed a lie, it should be countered. BTW, the other lie that vaccine makers can't be sued by vaccine damaged persons ...
Re: Flu Shot ?
December 02, 2017 06:53PM
Quote
Joe
If that is indeed a lie, it should be countered. BTW, the other lie that vaccine makers can't be sued by vaccine damaged persons ...

Yes, it's a lie, along with so many other lies in that post I don't know where to begin.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.... Why the hell does anyone care what a f*cking lawyer/author/radio host has to say about the CDC or vaccines? Why on earth would anyone think he knows a single thing about the subject? He makes his money saying outrageous crap to gain listeners and readers. You'd be better off getting your medical information from a Playboy bunny (which many anti-vaxxers do).

Here, read this if you want to begin to understand the depth of the lies posted above. It raises my blood pressure too much to consider replying in the detail that crap deserves.

I'm truly disappointed to see this site being turned into a forum for pseudo-science conspiracy theorists. There is no quicker way to destroy my confidence in this site and ruin its reputation among people who hold science and evidence-based medicine in esteem.
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