A couple of thoughts. You might try hydrating early in the day & than back off later. Then you are less likely to need to get up at night. Secondly, if you wake up with a dry mouth or are thirsty, you may be breathing with your mouth open. This is dehydrating. A way to remedy this is mouth taping when you go to sleep. This is a search on mouth taping posts here:by GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteTed S Thanks so much, George, for taking the time to provide those thoughts. I really appreciate it. Now to investigate “taping”… This is the tape I use. It is pretty inexpensive and works well for me. My 33 year old daughter uses 1" 3M Micropore tape, which is available almost anywhere. There are other specialty tapes. Some find a tiny strip vertically works well enough. I findby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteTed S Basically, I’m fishing for insights/advice, here. Has anyone had a similar pattern where light to moderate exercise helped convert? My cardio’s PA seemed surprised when I told her that was a pattern that had been holding for me for multiple months. I had my first afib episodes in 2004, at age 49. For a few months I could convert them with exercise, then I had an episode that lasteby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Quotekenn_green I suspect the AFIB is from poor sleep. My wife is sure I have sleep apnea and a sleep study just confirmed that, and am scheduled to see a sleep Dr, but no appointments till November. Have you tried taping your mouth during sleep? It can, in many mild to moderate sleep apnea cases, dramatically reduce the number of events. In this post there are three heart rate vs time grapby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteCarey Maybe you should try to contact her and talk to her about the mouth taping. I tried a comment on her IG channel, but it wouldn't let me post. I posted this on the YT video. As there are a jillion comments, if you know a way to DM her, let me know. Hi, an admin in my afib group linked this YT video. I've had afib for 19 years and chronic endurance fitness was my path.by GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteGeorgeN along with CBT-I. I tried CBT-I with a coach last fall. They said they had 95% success. I failed. At least for me, the idea was to compress your sleep window, and once your brain adapted and you were sleeping well, increase your window. All I got was a lot less sleep, to the point driving was dangerous. My coach had me try other things, and increase the sleeping window.by bettylou4488 - AFIBBERS FORUM
Quotebettylou4488 along with CBT-I. I tried CBT-I with a coach last fall. They said they had 95% success. I failed. At least for me, the idea was to compress your sleep window, and once your brain adapted and you were sleeping well, increase your window. All I got was a lot less sleep, to the point driving was dangerous. My coach had me try other things, and increase the sleeping window.by GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
George, If I'm understanding well, your technique was basically, inhaling then exhaling and then hold for as long as possible, correct? QuoteGeorgeN Quick look: Serum CO2 lengthens ERP, and slows conduction This may be why apnea creates a risk for afib (slowed conduction after the apnea). There may be an opportunity to use this to convert episodes without meds (I did this). Therby Marco - AFIBBERS FORUM
I've posted a number of times about breath-hold conversions. Including here and here. My working hypothesis has been that it is high CO2 levels that are the mechanism, and in the first link, I posted a link to a paper where they demonstrated that high CO2 levels in breathing air in sheep were protective against afib. My general approach was to do a "Wim Hof" style breathing pracby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Thank you very much for all the info George. I guess I am more a hyperactive brain type than one in need of CPAP. I am energetic the next day, so am not suffering that way. Last night I tried the serial diverse imaging first with my seed word & then used their app to see what it offered. I like what they call the cognitive shuffle. Not sure after one try, but it seems more my need to triby Madeline - AFIBBERS FORUM
Yep, I was tested for sleep apnea a few months ago and it reported as being mild (6). EP suggested I go with CPAP machine (which was on back order for 4 months) and I've been given the head gear that has a nasal pillow fitting just below the nose. It's very comfortable and will not allow me to open my mouth because the rush of air would be overwhelming trying to catch my breath! I waby Muntz - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuotePavanPharter George, Do you have overnight O2 data from just mouth taping? Do you believe that mouth taping alone may raise O2 levels to suitable levels for some people? Thanks I do have data from while I'm taped. I don't have data without tape as I always tape and have for quite a few years. I've had this ring for 3 or 4 years. It reads & records SpO2 &by GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
I have severe sleep apnea. Nobody knew, least of all me, until my heart began to fibrillate near the end of a 10 km run. Five years later, I have been using a CPAP since December of 2017. I learned during the first night that I sleep with my mouth open...slack-jawed and with no tone in the lips. Unlike some who teach themselves to suck up their tongue to the palate and pharyngeal tissue, and tby gloaming - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteMadeline GeorgeN, I am interested in how one knows they need mouth taping. For years, I am a light sleeper. Sometimes I fall asleep for 2 hr & sometimes 4 hr, I have a lot of variability, but when I wake I can't get back to bed. Would this sound like an indication for some kind of diagnostic tests. Mouth taping sounds awful, but not sure why one uses it. The easiest thing iby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Quotebneedell thanks so much could you send me a link on Amazon or something to the exact kind of tape because I don't quite know what you mean. How wide,? what's blue tape versus green tape etc. and then how do you tape it and if the doc recommends a CPAP I will try it but that's not until January There are some suggestions in my post here. As well as by other posters in theby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
A possible simple approach is mouth taping during sleep. In this post, I have heart rate vs. time graphs showing the difference without and with mouth taping. In the three graphs, the top shows the entire time I was monitoring. Where I woke up, realized my mouth was dry (meaning I was mouth breathing) then applied tape is obvious. The second graph is a zoom during the time of no tape (the patby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Hi, It has really been on the afibbers forum that I have seen over the yrs someone discussing sleep & taping the mouth, maybe George N or gloaming or Poppino. I can't remember why they need to do it. I have been a light sleeper for very long time. I tend to be able to fall asleep reading & stay asleep 2-4 hr, but then wake & usually take 5 mg zolpidem, which does the tricby Madeline - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
I am diabetic and before I was diagnosed I woke to relieve myself 6-7 times a night because I was drinking so much water. At that time my A1c was 12.1. Now that it is under control I am only in need of the bathroom 1-2 times a night unless I drink a whole lot of water which I do not usually. Staying hydrated is a chore for me but I am trying to focus on it. That was a long way to say make sure yoby Geocappy - AFIBBERS FORUM
I have avoided drinking more than a late cup of almond milk to wash down a handful of nuts about two hours before bed. When I hydrate, it is with tea, rather weak, and I drink a liter of it before breakfast (I fast until late in the morning). My liquid consumption for the rest of the day, including the almond milk, might approach 0.75 of a liter. So, by bedtime, I'm somewhat short. I am 7by gloaming - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuotebneedellI wake up every few hours, quite thirsty, When I wake up with a dry mouth, it is an indicator I've been breathing through my mouth. For many years now, I've taped my mouth at night and it solves this. In this post from a couple of years ago, I have heart rate vs. time graphs showing the difference in heart rate patterns with and without tape on during the same night.by GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
I am well aware of the potential dangers of epi to the heart but sometimes a small amound is essential. I had an infected wisdom tooth root from a 20 year old root canal. To clean it out the Endodontist said he had to use some epi to dry up the blood enough so his scope could see well enough to clean. I was still using Eliquis at the time as it was 3 months after my last ablation and of couby ggheld - AFIBBERS FORUM
Re George's post above on mouth tape, my wife has very sensitive skin; indeed the 3M paper tape I use gives her blisters while the green 3M Micropore tape works great. We get both at Walgreens or Rite-Aid. We have been doing nasal breathing for over a year now and confirm that it does make sleep easier and more calm. We're now trying it for outdoor exercise, too, and find its beby ggheld - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteAfibber20 Interesting the mouth taping can make that much difference, though it seems counterintuitive. Did nasal strip help? I never tried nasal strips. While it won't work for all sleep apnea cases, mouth taping is a simple approach and nasal breathing can make a big difference. I use the snoreless tape from this site: There quite a few other tape options. My 32 year old daughby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteGeorgeN You have an irritable heart that doesn't like what it has to do to keep you alive 24/7. In this post I show what my heart rate looks like without and with mouth tape at night. One heart rhythm strip where I started without mouth tape, woke up with a dry mouth & realized I'd been breathing through my mouth. Put tape on and went back to sleep. The difference is drby Afibber20 - AFIBBERS FORUM
I taped starting on Night the Second on PAP. First night was a nightmare, but the kind RT offered two potential cures: a chin strap or taping. I decided taping was more positive. NexCare 'water resistant' tape has worked reliably for me since 2018. Just need to clean the mouth, apply with firm presses over the lips, and leave a small folded-over tab on one end of the tape for easy gby gloaming - AFIBBERS FORUM
Quotegloaming You have an irritable heart that doesn't like what it has to do to keep you alive 24/7. In this post I show what my heart rate looks like without and with mouth tape at night. One heart rhythm strip where I started without mouth tape, woke up with a dry mouth & realized I'd been breathing through my mouth. Put tape on and went back to sleep. The difference is dramby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Great posts George! Dominik Linz has many papers on AF and OSA. As does Prash Sanders Mike Mutzel is solid on mouth tapingby PavanPharter - AFIBBERS FORUM
I should note for those who live at higher elevations, it is normal to see lower saturations. I live at 5500' (1676m), but travel to sea level and also sleep at elevations as high as 10500' (3200m). I wear a ring that records SpO2 (and heart rate) every 4 seconds overnight. At home, it is common to see an average saturation around 94 or 95% with maybe 1 drop per hour of 4% and a fewby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Quoteadamh since we are on the topic, what do you do when your sinuses are clogged? just suffer? i went through an episode where i couldn't breathe through my nose for a few days. it was incredibly miserable. Here is an unblocking the nose exercise by breathing instructor, Patrick McKeown: Here is a post I just wrote on breathing in another group: Something to explore is breathing tby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Quotebettylou4488 Ok you have me on a mission to try the mouth tape tonight. I'd start by wearing it some during the day to get used to it. If you aren't used to breathing through your nose, that is something you can adjust to, but may be easier when you aren't trying to go to sleep.by GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM