Shortly after my first episode in 2004, I learned of the saying, "afib begets afib." Then I had an episode that lasted 2.5 months. I thought my chances of controlling afib were very low. During the episode, my EP wanted me to stay out of rhythm as my afib heart rate was < 100 BPM (as determined by a holter monitor) & said I was doing well. My path to afib was excessive enduraby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Hi Brian, First, on Verma. I've never had an ablation (and I live in the US), but have been on this board for 19.5 years, so am relating what I recall. Here is a search on the terms Verma ablation, so you can see what others have said. On flec vs ECV in the hospital. I've never had an ECV and I've used flec as PIP for 19 years. My use has generally been infrequent, but hby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
In my post to you here, I mentioned vagal, adrenergic and mixed triggers. Exercise most commonly works (IF it works) for those with vagal triggers. Initially, I converted all my episodes with exercise (including running). This lasted for a couple of months, then I had a 2.5 month episode where it didn't work and converted that episode with on-demand flecainide. The length of the 2.5 monby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteMarco is the book below still the bear read on AiFib or you would recommend also something different? It is dated, but it reading it realizing that would give you an excellent background to start. I gave it to my son-in-law and my daughter to prep them when they had a visit with a military EP. Between that and coaching from me and moderator Shannon, they had a short visit and gotby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteYuxi I wonder if someone successfully managed to avoid all his/her triggers (I know it's hard but presumably), will he/she be able to put Afib into remission? This is a bunch of stories put together in 2007 by member Peggy Merrill. It is kind of hard to find since the website got reorganized a few years ago. Here are other things from that time: I'll have had afib for 19 yeby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Quotegloaming The only way to be sure is to adopt a self-sacrificial and methodical approach to trials. Despite one's fears, one should repeat the apparent association and see how often the unwanted outcome follows. Quotesusan.d In the past stevia never bothered me. Maybe I am more prone to flutter triggers since long covid. I don’t know. In my case, inadvertently increasing calcium intaby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteCarey Try it at least 2-3 times and see if it holds up. As I've posted before, when I was unknowingly consuming a lot of calcium (at least for my body), during 2012-2013 many things that weren't prior triggers became triggers. One of those was the immediate aftermath of orgasm. You can bet I tried it many times to see if held up! Actually, I learned I would initially get aby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
See the definitions here. As far a exercise goes, I think of vagal afib triggers as being delayed, as in after you've quit exercising. In my case, when I used to do long duration strenuous races, it might even be a several day delay. I think of adrenergic triggers as occurring during exercise. Like my friend who was hunting and killed a deer. In trying to pack it out, the exertion triby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
For me, I've had times when I can't identify triggers and when I can. When I have my electrolytes optimized, triggers are few and the primary one is overdoing exercise meaning too long a duration at too high an intensity (creating a delayed vagal trigger). When electrolytes are out of sync, then I have episodes with no trigger and also many other things become triggers like ice coldby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteElectroBluTo be more precise, I mean that sex is one of my main triggers for an afib episode! During that time, I put on a recording beat to beat heart rate monitor and performed self gratification to see what my heart did. My triggers have always been vagal. From memory, my heart rate increased to around 115 BPM at orgasm, then went on a pretty steep slide to 65-70 BPM. It was duringby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteElectroBlu Curiously, when doing a search on this forum, I could not find one post that mentioned afib and sex. Am I the only one whose sex life is impacted by afib? During parts of 2012 and 13, I was going through a divorce and stress eating wheels of bire. I later figured out that this increase in calcium gave me many more afib triggers, including the time after orgasm when heart rby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Kim, Yes, in the short term after afib starts, it does matter. Many vagal afibbers can exercise their way out of an episode. Adrenergics can use vagal maneuvers to likewise convert. If an episode has been going on for a long time, these are less likely to work. I've written about time around 2012 when I was going through a divorce and stress eating wheels of brie. It took me 14 mby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteThe Anti-Fib George: Does Steve's Ca reduction protocol effect ANS, as far as less issues with VMLAF? Good question that I don't know the answer to. In my case, I'm not sure that reducing Ca impacted the ANS, it impacted the atrial sensitivity to ANS changes. For example, I've noted that during my high Ca period, the time immediately after orgasm when the heart ratby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteMikeN Also, my resting heart rate at the start of my afib 2.5 years ago was around 52. I stopped my vigorous exercise and over the course of 6 months it increased to 57, where it is now. I'm wondering if this small increase of 5 beats per minute is what has lowered my afib burden. In my case, it doesn't appear to be the heart rate, per se. It has to do with the ANS & I reallby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteMikeN What I don't understand is, if there is some damage to the heart from chronic fitness, albeit electrical, why does the afib start at night even though the 'damage' is there during the day as well. I can over exercise during the day and feel great, but I'll probably wake up in afib sometime during the night or even the next evening. For a vagal trigger, the autoby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Quotelds001 My 3rd and last AF episode started immediately after I rolled onto my left side when trying to get to sleep. Then I read somewhere that sleeping on your left Side can be a trigger for AF. I haven’t slept on my left side since that night and I MISS sleeping on my left side. Is this a “tale” or is it true? Thanks! Left side was never a trigger for me. Then, as I've prby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Quotemwcf I'm also convinced that there are folks who hardly get any ectopics but when one or two do show up it nearly always precipitates AF, and those like me (as I was from 1999 (first AF) to 2018 (ablated) who got hundreds of ectopics but hardly any AF (one or two nocturnal episodes per year). Mike, Interestingly, in the 2 month interlude between my first episode in 2004 and the stby GeorgeN - GENERAL HEALTH FORUM
QuoteCarey What I'm looking for is evidence (ie, published clinical studies) that vagal afib is harmed by (or benefits from) being treated differently. The bonus question would be what to do with the mixed types, which is probably most people. Wonder if you were a treating doc, would you treat a young (34), fit, paroxysmal afibber who gets episodes 3x/year with afib rates in the 150'sby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
I'm not sure 100% that Wolfpack is correct on your being adrenergic. I say that because your exercise was intense, but the episode happened 10 to 15 minutes later. I had a period of time when I was consuming excess calcium and became much more sensitive to triggers. One of those times was the time after orgasm. So my heart rate was relatively high at orgasm, then would cascade down.by GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteCatherine The “ncbi” link is interesting. Two criteria for cardioversion for the 29 y.o.; one, patient has to be on anti-coagulant and two, a digital rectal exam to eliminate occult blood. The patient converts. The article, however, does not commit to the digital exam as the only way to convert to sinus because the patient was also put on a beta blocker. George...correct me, if I’ve mby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Sam, I understand a lot of afibbers have indicated that being on their left side can be an issue with PAC's or a trigger, but I wouldn't worry about it as an ablatee. During the 18 month time I was consuming excess (for me) calcium through food (cheese) and unknowingly changing my electrolyte balance to make me more sensitive to afib, left sided sleeping could be an issue. Howeveby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteAnneC So far the only thing I have identified which will most likely put me into afib is a long run - not during the run, but within an hour or so of finishing (is this a vagal afib characteristic)? What have you found that causes you to leave sinus rhythmn? How long after the triggering event do you go into afib? Does the trigger seem to have any relationship to how long it takes youby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteAnneC I am sure l have daily episodes, most lasting several hours. My question to you all: what, if anything, do you do to try to convert? So some vagal afibbers can convert episodes with exercise, I could during the first couple of months of my afib journey, 14 years ago. Then I had a 2.5 month episode that wouldn't convert ( ultimately converted with 300 mg flecainide). Iby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteCareySo I don't encourage people to look for triggers. I think it's largely a snipe hunt. I disagree, and I do repeat testing like you do. Never a one-off. I also found that when I was consuming too much calcium from food, as I've previously reported, I was sensitive to many more triggerst than when not consuming the Ca++. Triggers - low Ca++: not consuming enougby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Quotekong2018 Thanks George, this is impressive! Glad you found a way to keep it out. While you've been doing so good, may I ask how your quality of life has been like? Would afib still be in your mind most of the time? Sorry I ask because I'm pretty new to this thing and wanted to see what to expect. Thanks! I don't think about afib all day every day. I am very aware of the conby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
QuoteRJS4Basically if my heart rate is depressed for too long, it seems get thrown off when it starts speeding up again. I'm very vagal. When my electrolytes were not as balanced (too much calcium), I was subject to a lot of triggers that I'm not now. One of these triggers was the time after orgasm when the heart rate was dropping quickly. I could feel PAC's and if I did notby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
Liz, For me, afib control has 3 components: 1. don't train or do long duration endurance exercise (as this plus genetics brought me to the afib party) - my limits here are actually pretty high 2. keep well repleted with magnesium 3. keep calcium intake very moderate. At least in the short term, I could likely eat & drink (including alcohol) anything in any quantity and it wby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
When I first had afib, nearly 13 years ago, it would work. For the first 2 months I would have episodes every 10-12 days and I could terminate them with exercise (sometimes a full on sprint or hard run). Then I had an episode that lasted 2 1/2 months and would not convert. I converted it with flecainide and then started my remission program - detraining, magnesium to bowel tolerance and an oby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
tsco Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > George now that makes sense and thats where it gets a bit confusing. Seems there is a def lapse > of time between the exercise and then during a "cool" down period at some point triggers. This > is adrenergic If it is during the cool down, I would say it is vagal. I'll give another exampleby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM
I've had the experience that Monty has had. During my first couple of months of life with afib, I could exercise my way into NSR. Then it didn't work and I had a 2 1/2 month episode converted with flec. Later, during my excess calcium time, I'd feel the PAC's in the time after orgasm. I could ward off an episode by not being prone. Even just sitting up would typicallyby GeorgeN - AFIBBERS FORUM