180 bmp

Sunday, I was kicking back in my chair, when I started feeling not quite right. Felt as if my semi-weekly afib episode might becoming on. I jumped in the shower, trying to avoid it. (sometimes that helps) I had had several lub dub, lub dub, lub dub-dub-dub's , earlier that day, so I was pretty sure it was gonna hit. It did. While in the shower, my heart rate jumped up extremely high. I got out of the shower, dressed quickly, and then checked the timer, 180 bpm, but it felt like NSR. I jumped in the truck and drove the 2 miles to the ER. By the time I got there, the rate had slowed some, and I had gone into afib. I took a seat out front, for about 15 min. Feeling a little better, I started walking around. After about 20 minutes I was in "normal" afib. No high rate, just the afib. I went home and waited it out. Just like always(almost) I converted at home in about 12 hours.

What did I do wrong? I was under extreme financial stress the entire week. Also had a house full of relatives in from out of town. An absessed wisdom tooth had been causing the worst toothache ever, for 48 hours straight. I took quite a bit of Advil(ibuprofen). I ate a bunch of junk at the family bbq, and against my better judgement, ate some store bought macaroni salad, loaded with preservatives. I didnt have any LSV8 that day, so I might have been low on Pot. Everyone had gone to the beach, and I took the opportunity to smoke some Weed. Not 5 minutes later, the episode hit.

Was it the weed? The Extreme Stress? The extreme pain? The overdoses of ibuprofen? The MSG? Or was it just my time?

I only ramble on because Im trying to demonstrate the many triggers we think we have. Many of which may not be triggers at all, but coincidence. The same holds true for "cures". Try some Hawthorn, try extra supplements. Get more Sun, Get more rest, Try some quick exercise.... Try tossing some salt over your shoulder.

Ive heard many of you blame episodes on the smallest variations in your daily routine. Its understandable to want to think you have some control over this thing, but I'm sure, many of those episodes would have occured anyway, even if you didnt lose your rabbits foot. Im not a big fan of the AMA, but at least their treatments are based in science. Many of the things I read here seem more like superstition, coincidence, and conjecture. I say many, not all. If you can get through the sea of false opinoins, There is much hard scientific data to be found here.

When I first found this site I made many life style changes that have had no effect on my afib. So I gave up my occasional beer for nothing. I skipped the popcorn at the movies for nothing. I gave up pepperoni pizza, for nothing. Every little piece of our lives we give up to afib, makes the condition that much worse. I do try to lead a more helthy lifestyle, but that is good advise even without afib. But I know now, I can have a beer, or some pizza, and its not gonna kill me. You cant give up every possible trigger, and you cant try every possible "cure". So far I've heard of at least 50 different causes. And at least as many suggestions on how to stop it.

Dont get me wrong, Im not bashing this site, I love it. It has helped me more than anything else over the last 6 years. I only seek to improve it. And there is nothing wrong with trying new things, many here are helped by the suggestions here. But perhaps we could be a little more careful when a newcomer asks for help. Giving false hope, that an unproven treatment might help them, only slows the learning curve. There is no quick fix. You might say ive had my "bowel tollerance".

Curt, interesting post. I totally understand where you are coming from. I have used this site for 4 yrs, and for 4 yrs have tweaked my routine, supplements, diet constantly. My afib is about 4 times a year on avg but my last 3 (Oct 09, Mar1, 10 and May 31 all had to be cardioverted.

The triggers, yes I am a believer in them......alcohol, stimulants, dark chocolate and indigestion are without a doubt triggers for me,,,,,but I still get afib almost like clockwork every 3 or 4 months and I like many here blame it on something.....my May 31 episode was absolutely indigestion though, without any doubt. I had taken on the Paleo diet, and broccoli that night sent me in to intestinal distress and bam!

No I am back on my diet.....and I eat pasta, hamburgers, yogurt, whey protein drinks etc and nothing now for 6 weeks!

I get your frustration....but.....have you ever earnestly attempted trigger avoidance, and taken the supplements in correct amounts? I own a natural food store and have everything at my beckon call, and I take it! magnesium, fish oil, d-ribose, hawthorn, co Q 10 etc etc.....I now drink coconut water, eat bananas and take 4 to 6 postassium glycinate tabs per day......so I work at my supplements

I have an appt with my cardio EP today as a matter of fact, he has said I am not a canidate for ablation (yet)......

One thing for sure, all us afibbers are different, no 2 cases alike. I went to Italy last summer and drank no wine, ate no chocolate and drank no coffee for 9 days in fear......

It's a pisser.....and you are right maybe no matter what we do we'll get "our" episodes.....but if I were you I'd be an experement on one and try a strict regimine and see.....you get frequent episodes so itd be easy to test and who knows maybe the Paleo Diet would work for you as it does for some

My stategy, last as long as I can and then maybe in 2 or 5 yrs they nail afib with a precise 90%+ procedure......I take no meds....do you? I have flec as PIP.....did not work in May.....my EP wabts me to take it daily but I will not....

Tom in NC

Curt,
I personally have 3 friends besides myself that have or have had Affib. One has completely eliminated his with supplementation for over 7 years now. One has greatly reduced the number of events with diet change and meditation. Another had limited success with supplementation and diet changes but eventually went the route of ablation. I was never able to control mine with supplementation but was able to thwart it with exercise and changes in diet. I do know for a fact that triggers played a big part in all of our affib. Some of mine were alcohol, MSG and Gatorade, or any other type of drink like that. I also believe taht I probably would have had better success with supplementation if I had been more regimented with it. I too had an ablation and remain in NSR. Had one minor glitch a few weeks ago, not affib but an irregular heartbeat, but am quite sure it was due to electrolyte and mineral depletion.
So based on just 4 people I think the odds that you can control or eliminate affib via methods found here are pretty good.

curt r,

Your comments and insights are right on target. Although obviously well intended certain reports regarding positive outcomes with certain supplements (ie, herbs,etc) is at best anecdotal and based on personal beliefs/experiences rather than any substantive evidence that can be objectively corroborated. Therefore, these reports of efficacy are not evidenced-based and are not reliably transferable to the vast majority us.

In fact we have no idea whether the positive experiences certain posters' report are due specifically to a particular herb (or other supplement) or whether it was due, for example, to the fact that they exercised more or less frequently, ate pizza with or without beer, slept an additional hour each night, recently got married, ceased eating wheat products, obtained a less stressful job, etc,etc, etc. We also have to consider the presence of the placebo effect as a contributing factor in these glowing reports.

FYI, I belong to another forum dealing with a major ocular disorder. There significant numbers of posters are presenting reports of sudden cures or significant improvements in their visual field tests and vision due to certain foods(ie, coconut oil, lemon juice in their eyes, radishes, etc, etc, etc). These individuals swear that their vision has improved miraculously BUT in fact we have no way of knowing the baseline severity and loss of vision of these individuals presenting these reports and no way of objectively measuring whether in fact there has been an improvement in their vision!

I can assure you that lemon juice, radishes and coconuts would no longer be available for sale in the US IF these foods brought about such miraculous improvements because millions of people would be grabbing these products up in a nano second to regain their vision.

For sure, this is the place we can come and share our personal experiments and wins-losses that are absolutely valid for an audience of ... one. Ourself. I have alwasy accepted that the suggestions offered here are offered in the spirit of sharing, but not necessarily transferable to my own situation.
When i read the posts here, I just hope to come away with some ideas and clues that may work for my situation. If the disciplines of science and medicine knew more about the root causes of LAF, we wouldn't have this need for trial and error, and subjective reporting.

I, also, share the frustration that whether I have frequent episodes or not, I'm not really sure if that's related to what I do...or it's just coincidence.

Two things have been consistent in my LAF recurrence/episodes...stress and which part of my menstrual cycle I am in. And even those aren't 100% consistent for me!

So from time to time I throw up my hands...and then continue trying and looking for clues. Thanks for sharing, eveyone.

Roger,

There is a way to approach this with science. My EP once advised me that being your own control was perfectly acceptable. I took this advice and implemented it as follows:

In the Conference Room archives, PC discusses AERP shortening as a risk for aifb.

[www.afibbers.org] p. 3
ERP shortening due to (P cells + low potassium + ANS tone) => AF Risk

Many more references here: [www.google.com]

My assumption is that a proxy for ERP is PAC/PVC counts/hour. That is the higher the PAC/PVC counts the shorter the ERP.

I objectively measured PAC/PVC counts using a recording heart rate monitor as described here [www.afibbers.org]

I then looked at this relationship to see what I could adjust:
ERP shortening due to (P cells + low potassium + ANS tone) => AF Risk

P cells are not variable.

ANS tone can be addressed by detraining (less exercise) for a vagal afibber (me). More recently Propantheline Bromide has been suggested as a way to modify ANS tone. See: [www.afibbers.org]. I've not tried this. There are additional ways address change ANS tone that I did not try, but others here have.

Low potassium can be addressed through electrolyte supplementation (since magnesium has an impact on potassium utilization).

I then adjusted my electrolyte intake to minimize PAC/PVC counts. This minimization has resulted in a relative drop in afib burden (% time in afib):

57% for 4.5 months before starting the above.
0.06% for 5.5 years after starting the above program.

George

Thank you George for that scientific data. This is evidence that people with electrolite deficiencies can benifit from electrolite supplementation.

Do you have any data to show what % of afibbers are deficient? A breakdown of possible causes, and the % of afibbers in each category would be very helpful.

Curt,

I totally agree with your statement : "There is evidence that people with electolite deficiencies can benefit from electrolite supplementation". I also suspect that those who have afib caused by electrolyte deficiency do well on the minerals so often referred to.

I have come to believe that afib has MANY causes. Not everyone who has liver disease, kidney disease, or cancer has the same causes. It is the same with afib. What becomes furstrating is the absolute belief by many that because they corrected a mineral deficiency and it improved their afib that this will work for EVERYONE. If someone reports that minerals had no effect that are often told that they didn't take enough minerals or for a long enough time period. I believe that afib is more complicated then just mineral balance. I also am concerned that taking megadoses of some minerals and not taking other minerals could cause imbalances that could create other problems.

I believe another common cause of afib is endurance exercise and the changes it creates in the heart. (Being big and tall creates a similar problem). The heart is healthy but the electrical system is not as efficient in the big healthy heart. In time the impaired elctrical system can cause changes in the heart. Electrolytes may or may not have any effect on this problem. Even cutting back on exercise may not help once the afib has been let out of the bag. Ablation may be the only solution. Thank goodness for ablation!

I also believe that people who have found ways to improve their afib truly want to help others so I don't offer these words to be critical but as an observation. Those who find things that work for them should be mindful that everyone is unique.

I love this board, the collective wisdom, and the willingness of members to help one another. Afib can be such a frustrating condition and forums like this certainly can help.

Debbie

Curt,

Unfortunately I'm not aware of the data you ask for. As Debbie suggests we each have a uniqueness to us.

For afibbers who are not lone, one way to get there is inflammation in the area of the heart. Afib is a very common outcome for those undergoing lung or heart surgery. Probably, this connection is an issue for those who find they can help their afib by solving digestive problems.

As to electrolytes, there are many reasons for depletion, including:

- intense physical activity
- stress
- insulin/blood sugar issues
- hyperaldosteronism (see: <[www.afibbers.org];, [www.google.com]),

In my case, when I first had afib, I was trying to analyze my situation. I noticed a serum potassium level of 3.2 on the day of my first episode. This was followed by a 4.2 four or so days later in my GP's office. Reviewing recent annual blood tests showed serum levels on the last few years of 3.5 (the bottom end of "normal'). I reasoned that I most likely had intermittent hypokalemia (low serum potassium). PC's description of the diurnal level of potassium [www.afibbers.org] led to the conclusion that this diurnal low on top of an already low base level could lead to my 3 AM afib sessions. I determined to keep an early morning fasting level above 4.2. Fortunately my GP cooperated with test ordering for me. My mid-day post prandial level & post supplment intake was 4.8.

I also had an Exatest performed for intracellular magnesium levels. I don't recall the exact number, but it was at the very bottom of the "normal" range. Four or five years ago, in one of Hans' surveys, of 7 afibbers reporting this test, all 7 were at or below the low end of the range of magnesium.

I am most likely an outlier on magnesium intake. When I first started my afib remission supplement program, I took 800 mg elemental magnesium/day as glycinate. Over time, I've added more as breakthroughs seemed to be related to magnesium depletion. I'm now closer to 3 grams elemental a day from a combination of sources: glycinate, citrate, chloride and bicarbonate.

One other indicator I have of low magnesium status are PAC's in the immediate vagal aftermath of sexual climax. When my mag status is low, I get PAC runs at this time. When mag status is fine, no PACs at this time whatsoever.

There was some anecdotal evidence on this board several years ago that adrenergic afibbers were less likely to be helped by electrolyte supplements.

Certainly electrolytes don't work for everyone and cause ectopy in others. However there is enough of a group that are helped that they are worth trying. Especially since there really isn't a big downside for those with normal, healthy kidneys.

George

Debbie - I can understand your frustration over the "one size fits all approach"... the mineral/electrolyte issue is truly at the very 'heart' of the afib problem. Unfortunately, there can be many reasons why some afibbers fail to reverse the trend and therein lies the conundrum. Figuring out why the critical components are not inside heart cells where they work to stabilize NSR, is a major project.

Watch for my report announcement coming out hopefully for the weekend on this very topic.

Jackie

Jackie,

This is exactly where we disagree. The electrolite issue may be at the heart of the problem for some, possibly most, afibbers. But to claim that all afibbers can benifit from supplementation is, in my opinion, false.

Does sleeping on ones left side deplete electrolites? Consuming MSG? Haital hernia? H. Pylori? Congenial conditions? Being an athlete? (most serious athletes supplement anyway, and still develop afib) The list goes on and on.

In fact, many afibbers experience a worsening condition when supplementing with potassium.

I truly appreciate your input, you have helped many afibbers. I respect your opinion, but I believe your objectivity is being clouded by personal experience.

This is not afibduetoelectrolitedeficiency.org We need to cast a wider net, if we wish to help those with other root causes.

Please dont think me argumentative, I only seek to shed as much light on the subject as possible. The more we discuss this thing, the closer we come to helping all afibbers.


Respectfully,
Curt R

Curt.... in my statement: "the mineral/electrolyte issue is truly at the very 'heart' of the afib problem"... does not mention supplementation if you re-read that again.

When I have the report ready, you can read the many reasons why my statement is true and it will be supported by science that offers statements on how the imbalance influences the triggering of afib.

Jackie

Curt:

A few years ago we had a much broader discussion about afib---there was a poster, P.C. who was a medical doctor, he would bring forth many ideas. P.C. also tried some drugs, potassium and most of all magnesium on himself, he would then discuss what was happening. Eventually however, he too went to France and had an ablation. He now lives the good life in Hawaii and we no longer have his input.

I believe that afib, like cancer and some other diseases, you either have the benign form or the more aggressive form, thus, the supplements work for some and not for others. Having said that, certain supplements do help ones over-all good health, especially magnesium. In order to really help your health, you would have to either grow your own food, or make sure that you buy it from someone who doesn't use a ton of sprays.

You have to cook all of your food from scratch, eat a lot of fruits/vegetables, good proteins (chicken, fish), nuts, it is work, and many people can't go that route. I think first of all eat a good diet, have good digestion, take some supplements, but don't take supplements instead of good healthy foods.

Liz

Well said, Liz - food is your best medicine. Unfortunately, sometimes in some people, they can't get enough of the cricical nutrients from food because of systemic interferences. Some of these can be organic dysfunctions or even gene flaws that prevent the the nutrients from accessing the appropriate cells. Eating whole, fresh, organic food and cooking from scratch is a great start. Jackie

Although I eat well and buy fresh, whole organic produce whenever possible there are many people who don't and who live long and disease free lives! In fact my father who recently died at age 92 had no cardiac or vascular problems whatsoever, was extremely muscular and spry but yet ate a fatty corn beef sandwich almost every day along with other not so healthy traits (smoked cigars, candy bars, etc). My grandfather also ate a great deal of meat and no vegetables, fish or fruit and lived to 96 in excellent health and with his mental faculties intact.

My point is that there is no proven formulas (specific foods, vitamins,minerals, herbs, etc) that guarantee a long life without debilitating illness or serious medical conditions because there is obviously genetic factors involved that contribute to certain disease states and are not amenable to dietary modifications.

I find this thread VERY interesting.

especially Tom's comment "but.....have you ever earnestly attempted trigger avoidance"

This brings me to an experience I had yesterday at Trader Joe's market. I am an "A" student regarding my earnestly and anal attempt to avoid triggers. Since 2004 I only had one AF and have remained in NSR straight. Yes it is very important for me to remain in NSR...for even 10 minutes of AF is so unbearable I have gotten to the point of doing anything in my control to avoid AF...even if it is just a theory and not a scientific approach that MSG, calcium, chocolate, caffeine, etc. could possible have a small percentage chance of triggering AF.

So I was at Trader Joe's market. They had a sale of a liter of O.N.E. coconut water for $2.99. It is usually $5.49. I piled up the entire cart with coconut water. I got the manager of the store to pull out all the cases in the back with this stuff. I was in my glory...I was set for months with my coconut water....thinking there is nothing "odd" that I was purchasing so much of this stuff....until an employee came up to me and asked "why so much coconut water?". I replied that is all I drink. This lady then said "I'm sorry but I eat food" and she shook her head and walked away.

Then it dawned on me...or actually I started to pity myself how on earth did I get to this point of not eating to stay healthy? At what cost?

I started down this road 6 years ago with being so anal and strict with cutting out all processed chemicals [msg] in my diet. I found through experimenting that Lactaid fat free milk enriched in Calcium would trigger AF immediately....so I cut out anything with calcium...carefully checking like a crazy person the ingredients of cereals, protein bars, anything that had enriched calcium. My list of foods were decreasing. Then I stopped eating chocolate and having a coke...even decaf is legally 3% caffeine and I didn't want to take a chance. The list of forbidden foods grew and my enjoyment of eating lessen until one day I walked by a Starbucks watching a complete stranger drinking a hot chocolate and lingered by just to smell the scent.

Then I went one step further...I read on this board about the paleo diet and [thank you jackie!] gluten free. It was June 2009. I was considering adding "NSR insurance" to my at that time 100% perfect record of being 5 1/2 years AF free. However my NSR record ended briefly on June 30, 2009 when I started throwing up. Long story short by body was fighting food and my intestines were so swollen I had a blockage. So that started my "coconut water". I got to this sad state that I couldn't eat at all. I went to the hospital 3 times in July 2009 and stayed a total of 3 weeks on IV. I had a food allergy serum testing and was found positive to meat, chicken, turkey, fish, eggs, milk, whey, potatoes, rice, gluten, and a whole list of "real food". Can you believe this? I was allergic to food? I spent the following 24 days drinking only coconut water.

Since last July to now I am eating a modified diet...I am 100% gluten free, dairy free and mostly eat small portions every so often "food" and mainly survive on coconut water.

which brings me back to yesterday's comment from that woman "i eat food". One has to do what they think is best for them. "but.....have you ever earnestly attempted trigger avoidance". Yeah...I paid my dues and am not in the hospital throwing up nor am I [knock on wood] in AF. Who said it is easy? Nuts? yeah...going 100% in attempting to avoid an ER visit? for sure! The question is of course at what price...it's an individual decision everyone has to make...on how important it is for them to have a healthy quality of life and what sacrifices are they willing to give up?

I treated myself today to a "food day" and my husband drove me north in CA to eat at a fancy winery where I had puree beet soup and a plain salmon...so far so good. I am not throwing up.

It was a wonderful meal...

Roger:

Our grandparents lived a different kind of life, most lived on farms, worked hard, ate foods that were grown on the farm plus raised their own aminals. They had a good start in life which made them strong and healthy, I am sure as kids they didn't eat potato chips, sodas, junk food.

I too believe our genes determine a lot of our good or bad health, there are people that can get away with a lot, while some have problems so they have to
try harder.

Who said we are all created equal and that life is fair.

Liz

Susan, Am I understanding you correctly that your previous afib attacks were probably allergy related? So you have no vitamin/mineral deficiency?

You must be relieved to have found the root of you afib. If only we could all get to the real cause of our attacks...

Susan:

Your regime sounds very drastic for only one afib episode.

Liz

Curt
Quite the opposite. My food allergies are from GI issues. Separate issue. My immune system fights the foods I eat.

I suspect my NSR success is from avoiding certain foods such as MSG, calcium, sugar- that I know from trial and error -prior 9-2004 AF episodes I encounter after repeatedly eating such foods and getting AF. I'm sure flec & tenormin, prilosec helped as well as luck.

Liz
I was getting AF daily with up to 240 heart rate..not just one time. I don't know how severe your episodes are but mine were unbearable. As I wrote earlier- one has to determine at what length they would go and is it worth the price. For me changing my diet wasn't even questioned. A Msg meal denial isn't worth an ER visit and cardioconversion. My GI issue is a different issue. If I eat I will throw up. I had 5 catscans last year. I have no choice at times. Today I felt like a million dollars. I ate. I kept soup and 4oz of salmon down.

I only posted because of Tom's post of earnest attempt of avoidance comment. It hit me reality-wise because I have to go long lengths of not eating food and fasting on only coconut water while there are those who whine about giving up pizza. Imagine having a condition of getting so sick you have a choice of lengthy hospital stays with IV or staying at home drinking coconut water. Today was a food day. It was a treat. I embrace life when given the chance, the gift to appreciate eating at all. I don't whine what I have to give up. My glass is half full.

Susan:

From reading your post, there was no way for me to know that you had many and severe episodes.

Glad you are now is SR.

Liz

Hi Susan - Nice to see you posting. Your story is indeed an interesting one and you deserve a medal for all your heroics in determining what works in your body and what doesn't. I thought of you the other day when I was listening to a recorded teleconference on chronic digestive ailments and the relation to Crohn's and gluten and how devastating that can be when the that gluten intolerance issue goes undetected. Best to you, Jackie

Liz - I like that about life and fairness. One thing that can level the playing field when it comes to inherited genes, is learning how to circumvent the negative gene expression. Many influences today help bring out adverse gene expression whereas our grandparents weren't exposed to the wide amount of toxins that have such devastating effects in some individuals....that's just what you're doing with your healthy home-raised foods. That's what our forefathers relied upon and all these chemicals were unheard of back then. Jackie

Susan, I never had your problems, but for awhile I was close to that when I had the h.Pylori bacterial attack on my system. I couldn't eat without it going straight through my body. It took months to get over it and I lost from around 120 lbs to 105 lbs. I also avoid gluten, processed foods, sodas etc. because I know for a fact they effect my AFIB. Good luck with all you are doing to help your body. Sharon

thank you sharon and jackie.

believe it or not I am not loosing weight from minimal/non eating. I lost 10 pounds this past year. My weight is stable. I guess my body has adjusted to my minimal eating...plus there is natural sugar in coconut water that has kept my weight stable without loosing the days I only drink coconut water.

I agree about being gluten free. I have been gluten free since the last week of July 2009. I really noticed the difference. It wasn't only a theory to try being gluten free. I was scoped and my GI saw redness caused by Celiac although I was tested three times negative on all celiac serum tests. It must be an allergy. Also dairy free. The times I did cheat with dairy last year I had immediate bloated stomach and extreme pain. I believe our bodies signals guide us on our decisions. If I eat fat free ice cream I will double up with pain and look like I was pregnant with a bloated gut.

I am a huge fan of L-arginine and probiotics [especially saccharomyces boulardi [good yeast] supplements. I just am waiting [year already] to be able to start eating food every day. I am low in mg and the supplements are too painful to take. I posted if anyone knows of any coated mg supplements without calcium. I already tried Han's site but they were not coated.

Susan - just a thought on the magnesium supplement issue.... in the past have you tried using the Waller Water as a source of magnesium. It's a low dose but consistent and you could easily add it to your coconut water.
It's alkalizing so that should be non-irritating to your GI tract.

I don't know of any uncoated magnesium product, but if it requires a coating,then it requires stomach acid to complete the reaction. The magnesium glycinate forms do not require stomach acid and are ready to go as is once they reach the small intestine. Now, that said, Lynn of San Diego who used to post here was extremely sensitive to all sorts of chemicals but needed the magnesium. Initially, she used to buy a Klaire Labs product (magnesium glycinate) because they guaranteed it to be hypoallergenic. She dumped out the capsule ingredients and ingested the powder with various foods. Eventually, her doctor and she decided to go the Intra-Muscular (IM) route for more efficacy and she eventually repleted her magnesium stores but it took quite a while..plus going for the injections.

You do need to increase your Mg stores so those are my thoughts on how you might accomplish that. I'm not a fan of using any of the forms that are bound to any relative of something aspartic or aspartate because they can have the excitatory tendency.

I wish you well. Jackie

Susan, something just occurred to me - when you were scoped, did they test you for eosonophilic esophagitis? It's an allergy based in the esophagus that doesn't show up on regular allergy tests - unless something has changed in the last few years, the only test for it is a biopsy from the scope. It's becoming more and more common, and although vomiting is a more common reaction in children, it still seems like a possibility in your case. Just a thought.

curt r,

You may find this of interest:

"Afibbers are magnesium-deficient
HARTFORD, CONNECTICUT. Magnesium (Mg) is an enormously important mineral being a cofactor in over 300 enzymatic reactions continuously taking place in the body. Magnesium is also a vital component of the skeletal structure and about 65% of the body’s magnesium stores are found in bone, another 34% is found in transcellular fluids, and the remaining 1% is found in extracellular fluids such as blood. It is thus clear that measuring magnesium in blood serum is not likely to be a very accurate measure of the body’s overall magnesium status.

There is increasing evidence that magnesium plays a crucial role in preventing and terminating cardiac arrhythmias. A group of cardiologists and pharmacologists at the Hartford Hospital reasoned that a pre-procedure infusion of magnesium might help prevent the acute development of atrial fibrillation following a radiofrequency ablation for this disorder. As a first step in proving or disproving this hypothesis, they decided to do a trial in which half the participants would have saline solution (0.9% sodium chloride) with 4 grams of magnesium sulfate (800 mg elemental magnesium) infused over a 15-minute period just prior to accessing the left atrium in a standard PVI procedure, while the other half would just have a saline solution infusion.

The trial involved 22 patients with paroxysmal or persistent afib. Samples of venous blood (for determination of extracellular Mg concentration) and buccal scrapings (scrapings from inside the cheek) were collected before the start of the procedure, 15 minutes after the completion of the infusion, at the end of the ablation procedure, and at 6 hours after the infusion. The blood samples (serum) were analyzed for extracellular magnesium concentration and the buccal scrapings were analyzed (using the EXAtest) for intracellular magnesium concentration as well as for concentrations of calcium, potassium, sodium, chloride, and phosphate. At least one study has shown that there is an excellent correlation between the magnesium (intracellular) content of buccal scrapings and that of myocytes (heart cells). The major findings are as follows:

• None of the study participants were deficient in Mg at baseline when considering blood serum values only. The average serum Mg concentration was 2.08 mg/dL versus the normal lower limit of 1.6 mg/dL.

• The majority (89%) of participants were magnesium-deficient at baseline when considering intracellular (EXAtest) values only. The average intracellular Mg concentration was 32.2 mEq/IU versus a normal lower limit of 33.9 mEq/IU. NOTE: The unit is defined as x-ray intensity (peak divided by background) divided by unit cell volume.

• There was no correlation whatsoever between serum magnesium and intracellular magnesium concentrations.

• Serum levels of Mg rose rapidly in the magnesium infusion group 15 minutes post-infusion and, although declining over the 6-hour observation period, remained considerably higher than the level in the placebo group (saline infusion only).

• Intracellular level of Mg increased rapidly in the magnesium infusion group 15 minutes post infusion and continued to rise throughout the 6-hour observation period. Somewhat surprisingly, the intracellular Mg level also increased somewhat (over baseline) in the placebo group over the 6-hour period. The Hartford researchers speculate that the ablation procedure itself, most likely the anaesthesia, facilitates the transfer of magnesium from serum to intracellular space.

• The intracellular calcium concentration increased significantly in the Mg infusion group post infusion, but gradually reverted to baseline over the 6-hour period.

• The intracellular potassium concentration increased by about 50% from baseline to the end of the PVI procedure and then began to drop off at the 6-hour mark.

The authors of the report conclude that future studies are needed to evaluate the electrophysiologic benefits of magnesium repletion and the effects of routine procedures and anaesthesia on intracellular electrolytes.
Shah, SA, et al. The impact of magnesium sulfate on serum magnesium concentrations and intracellular electrolyte concentrations among patients undergoing radio frequency catheter ablation. Connecticut Medicine, Vol. 72, May 2008, pp. 261-65

Editor’s comment: A 2006 LAF Survey (LAFS-11) found that, among a small sample of 7 afibbers who had EXAtest results, all 7 were either below or very close to the lower normal limit. The Hartford report provides important additional evidence to support the conclusion that afibbers are likely low in intracellular magnesium even though their blood serum levels may be normal. It is also of interest that replenishing magnesium via an infusion not only increases intracellular Mg concentration, but also increases intracellular potassium levels. This is all good support for our long-held conviction that lone afibbers with normal kidney function are likely to benefit from supplementing with magnesium, potassium, and taurine (facilitates the uptake of Mg and K)."

Hans

Darcy,
No I wasn't tested for eosonophilic esophagitis but I suspect that is not my problem -- my issue is mechanical. When I eat foods [i.e...proteins-meats, chicken, turkey, fish, eggs, etc. and veggies] my body's immune system causes an allergy which swells up my guts and I get a blockage-- plus scar tissue fusing to good intestines from prior surgeries is causing me problems.

Interesting if I take my probiotics my body absorbs the minerals and vitamins...if I stop for a while [doing a on and off three month cycle to test my theory-- with blood testing--to see if probiotics are actually helping me absorb foods] I get low in vitamin K, zinc, iron and others when off of probiotics. Probiotics seem to help and raise my levels.

There is a Hawaiian ped. doctor who is on this board who posted in the past that he feels GI issues/GERD is strongly related to his AF. I agree with him.

Jackie: thanks. Hans suggested Waller water but it contains sodium bicarbonate and I am on Flec. If you google side effects of flecainide and sodium bicarbonate you will find the combo decreases the effects of flecainide. I believe from my readings that they give sodium bicarbonate for flec toxicity. I am between a rock and a hard place. I need mg.

Jackie, can you think of any mg rich foods that are GI friendly that I can either juice or make into soup? Celery juicing causes GERD...so that is out.

Susan,
I'm brand new here and weeding my way through discussions, but I don't think I saw anyone mention Epsom Salts (magnesium sulfate) baths or other topical ways of getting magnesium into your system.