Need for supplementation with magnesium and potassium

I posted this information on another thread but thought it was important enough to highlight so here it is again:

I eat a healthy diet with lots of fruits and vegetables. I did a 7-day detailed diet evaluation using the NutritionData program (http://www.nutritiondata.com/). My average daily potassium intake was 2700 mg/day and my average magnesium intake was 250 mg/day. So, my potassium intake was nowhere near the recommeded 4700 mg/day and my magnesium intake was lower then the average intake in the United States (290 mg/day (1)) and considerably below the RDA of 400 mg/day. So, I definitely need to supplement and I suspect the majority of afibbers do as well.

(1) Ford ES and Mokdad AH. Dietary magnesium intake in a national sample of U.S adults. Journal of Nutrition, Sep; 133 (9):2879-82

[jn.nutrition.org]

I should have mentioned that I do not consume a lot of dairy products which could be part of the reason why my potassium intake is so low.

According to NHANES 1999-2002 the average intake of potassium among adults in the US is about 2700 mg/day (1). However, it is substantially higher among people consuming 4 or more servings of dairy products every day (average intake: 3960 mg/day) than among people consuming only one serving per day (average intake: 2545 mg/day). Among adults only 16% met the daily recommended intake of 4 servings of dairy products and only 13% achieved the overall daily recommended potassium intake of 4700 mg/day. So again, unless you consume a lot of dairy products you are likely to be deficient in potassium and an extra intake of 1500-2000 mg/day will probably be needed to bring you up to 4700 mg/day.

(1) McGill CR et al. Contribution of dairy products to dietary potassium intake in the United States population. Journal of the American College of Nutrition, Vol 27. No. 1, 44-50 (2008).

[www.jacn.org]

Hans

Hans - I agree with what you say. I'm a small eater and there is no way I can get the max from foods easily so I supplement... Since I eat very limited dairy, if at all, I do consume meat but not in huge quantities. Check out this chart for meat/potassium content. This helps the tally for potassium in my diet but not nearly enough, apparently.

[www.stuartxchange.org]

Jackie

"I eat a healthy diet with lots of fruits and vegetables. I did a 7-day detailed diet evaluation using the NutritionData program (http://www.nutritiondata.com/). My average daily potassium intake was 2700 mg/day and my average magnesium intake was 250 mg/day. "

Hans, that is exactly why i keep harping on nutrient calculators and the need to use them. Hardly anybody wants to believe that their good diet containing lots of fruits and vegetables could be deficient in electrolytes, but most of the time it is. I know mine was. I cannot afford to purchase the amount of fresh vegetables needed to provide sufficient potassium in particular. I buy everything when my check comes, and produce will not last a month in good shape. There is always too much month left at the end of the money. I rely on frozen vegetables besides the little i can raise in my mixed flower and vegetable beds.

I think i do pretty well, but i do need to supplement. So do these stalwarts who tell us their diets cannot be at fault because they eat a very good diet. They cannot figure out why they keep getting afib episodes. Of those who actually do raise their K intake to around 4-5 grams of K each day, most of them do stop having episodes.

Rarely we find one who does not show this positive effect, and these later sometimes turn out to be doing something actively negatory, like the poor guy who knew that his diet sodas gave him afib episodes, but declared he could not stop drinking them. That was the guy who would post under one name and then answer himself posting under another name. I just called him by both names once i was sure that was what he was doing. I don't remember who outed him about it, but for once it was not me. No idea what was wrong with him, aside from the afib.

PeggyM

Hi Hans,

Just returned from a beautiful holiday in your province (near Invermere). Didn't have internet, but did have my laptop, so on a rainy day was rereading a stored copy of PC's insightful "Diurnal Rhythm of Potassium.' [www.afibbers.org]

I'd forgotten about these quotes about taking magnesium & potassium together:

"potassium interferes with the absorption of magnesium" (P 26)

"Magnesium is obviously important in maintaining potassium balance but there are some codicils. Mansmann once stated that potassium interferes with magnesium absorption and vice versa. I’ve personally experienced this effect when increasing potassium intake while maintaining the same magnesium intake through Waller water." (P 28)

This led to a search & [jas.fass.org] "Feeding 2.4 and 4.8% K decreased (P<.05) Mg absorption by 24.4 and 61.2%, respectively. Preintestinal absorption of Mg was depressed linearly with increases in dietary potassium. Larger amounts of Mg flowed to the small intestine and were excreted in the feces when the high level of Mg was fed. "

Thought this'd be applicable here with regard to supplementation.

Cheers,

George

Well it must not be impossible to get the required amount of postassium from ones diet---I do eat lots of fruit/vegeatables from my garden and what I freeze and store. My potassium bloodwork is always near the high end of the lab values, when I tried taking extra potassium glycinate, it gave me lots of funny heart palps and afib runs.

My strawberries are coming in--they are early this year---and I eat lots of them, spinach and my romaine lettuce will be in next week.

I went 4 months without afib but I have had a few episodes this past month, I have been working hard and getting shook up running my big tiller and mowing my lumpy lawn, moles are making mounds in my lawn. Don't know, last year I worked hard as well and was afib-free all spring, summer and early fall, sometimes things just happen. I have been fortunate that taking propafenone at the onset of an episode, plus magnesium and aspirin shortens my time in afib.

Liz

Liz,

You get enough (around 4,600 mg.) potassium from foods mostly? I'm impressed.

How much magnesium are you taking, from foods and supplements, daily?

Four months w/o afib! The credit goes to???

Keep it up.

George,

Given that "potassium interferes with absorption of magnesium," is it best then to supplement potassium and magnesium at different times of the day?

Thanks,
Steve

Steve... the intracellular stores need optimal magnesium so the potassium can work. Therefore, it often works best to hold off some on the potassium while slowly and incrementally increasing the Mg dosing. Otherwise, in the absence of adequate IC magnesium, adding potassium can worsen afib.

Jackie

Gregg:

Evidently I am getting enough potassium from my food as my blood potassium nearly always tests around 4.7, which is almost at the high end of the lab values. I do eat a lot of fruit, especially when in season, some here say not to eat fruit because of the high sugar content---I say nature knows best.

My magnesium is within range, but towards the lower end, I take a supplement called MagSense, it is a powder that is supposed to be easy on the bowel (I don't think they make any mag. supplement that is easy on the bowel), one scoop =280 mg. which is supposed to be 70% of the dietary requirement, this is from Iherb.

Gregg, who knows why afib goes away for awhile, then it returns, one can knock themselves out trying this and that---I grow just about all of my fruits/vegetables, can't grow citrus however in my climate, so I am sure that helps a lot, I work hard in the fresh air and sunlight and am a tough ornery person.

Liz

I see magsense contains a lot of stuff, including calcium and potassium.


Joyce

Hello Gregg, please let me call your attention to the Conference Room Proceedings session called Afib Friendly Recipes. That session lists 3 separate one day menus, each of which supplies 5 grams of K a day, from food sources alone, no supplements at all not even low sodium v8.
PeggyM

Steve,

Good question.

I don't have a good answer.

I've taken K citrate & Mg glycinate together for years. Splitting them up may work. If you're near bowel tolerance with the mag you are taking, you could try taking them separately & see what happens.

George

Joyce:

True, but only a small amount of calcium (18mg) and only 55mg. of potassium, this particular brand has magnesium glycinate, which is the preferred form to take. I used to take another magnesium powder, which didn't have all the extra vitamins in it but it wasn't mag. glycinate so I am using this one.

Liz

Good discussion on the Trio. But how can we take these minerals in so they enhance each other, but not interefere with each other and affect the other's effectiveness?

I understand there is Mag oil out there. Is anyone aware of DMSO? Would DMSO and Epsom Salts applied to the heart area be effective?

Hans, you're the chemist! What do you think?

Lois

Lois
I use an MSM with DMSO gel made by Dr Jacob's on painful joint areas with great success. DMSO greatly enhances the absorption of whatever is with it although it is a bit stinky (garlicy odor). Here is a link to his page.
[www.jacoblab.com].
Cyndie

Lois,


I have taken potassium and magnesium together for years and the combination always works like a charm to eliminate ectopics. It is of course possible that they may work even better if the magnesium is taken with the main meals and the potassium (potassium gluconate powder in water or juice) is taken between meals. One would have to experiment with this. I would think that the absorption of magnesium from either the oil or an epsom salt bath is sufficiently good that adding DMSO would have a very small if any effect. Also, I have no idea whether DMSO on its own may precipitate ectopics or afib so I would not recommend it.

Hans