Magnesium and Fib

I'd like to share my fib story....I am a generally very healthy 47 year old marathon runner (last one this past October). On 1/2/04 I was diagnosed with lone arterial fibrillation. I was electrically cardioverted twice and remained in fib 24/7.

I researched the internet for any information on cures and found numerous references to magnesium as a possible symptom easer. I asked my cardiologist about taking supplements. He told me that if I wanted to waste my time and money and risk diarrhea (over 1000 MG/day), go right ahead. Due to his lack of enthusiasm, I basically dropped the idea.

Several nights later I woke up with a bad case of heartburn (too much spicy beef jerky right before bed) and took some Maalox. A couple hours later I woke up again - this time in a weird position where I could hear my heat beating. I quickly realized that I was in normal rhythm for the first time in weeks. I went running the next morning and felt like my old self. I had an EKG that confirmed normal sinus rhythm.

I suddenly remembered I had taken the Maalox the night before. I checked the ingredients and found each dose contained 400 MG magnesium hydroxide! When I told my cardiologist he naturally made light of any magnesium connection, however I feel it is too coincidental.

Contrary to what my cardiologist may believe, I feel magnesium is what stopped my fibbing. I have been taking 500 mg of magnesium a day and have been totally clear of any fibbing. I was cardioverted twice with the paddles to no avail. My thought is they can shock me all day, but if the reason for my fib is lack of magnesium, when they finish shocking me, I'm still short of magnesium.

I would recommend any of you lone fibbers out there try taking some magnesium. It won’t hurt and it certainly might help.

Mark

I forgot to add one interesting observation......Like most of you I'm on Coumadin and am avoiding leafy green veggies and the vitamin K.

Do you know that about the only natural source of magnesium in any quantity (and it's not much) is leafy green vegetables! In other words, if magnesium can help some fibbers, they are probably avoiding just the foods that could help them, thus perpetuating the problem.

Mark, don't forget nuts and pumpkin seeds as a magnesium source. Congratulations on your success, and thank you for sharing it.
Peggy

Another endurance athlete with an otherwise healthy heart!

Mark, what is your resting HR, just out of curiousity? Mine has always been in the low 40's, and I did run several marathons and a lot of shorter races back in my pre afib days.

And the mg definitely helps! John

John,

My resting heart rate has been low as long as I've been a runner. When I'm not in afib it is generally 44 - 48 at complete rest. During fib (and taking 100 mg toprol) it was in the 70 - 80 range.

Now I'm just curious, why do you say another endurance athlete? Is that a risk factor? You are correct about an otherwise healthy heart. I had all the tests and with the exception of borderline hypertension, they found absolutely nothing wrong with my heart.

Mark

Mark,
Being on warfarin 5.5 mg and having macular degeneration, I know eating spinach has saved my eyesight and I have had no problem eating a lot of it with the blood thinner. Being a runner you might appreciate my having once run with a guy who beat Frank Shorter , the Olympic champion, in college back in the 60's. I like to say I ran with him for laughs, what actually happened was I met him at Belmont Lake in North Babylon on Long Island and we started running. I saw him for about 30 seconds off in the distance ahead of me as I could barely manage to lift my feet and he was in great shape as you would expect. His name is Michael DeMicco and he was captain of the St. John's Track team. Maybe you have heard of him?

Howie,

I agree you can eat the leafy green stuff and take coumadin. My point was that they generally tell you to avoid the leafy geen stuff. So unless you knew you should eat them (as in your case), you probably wouldn't and would miss out on needed magnesium.

I haven't heard of Michael DeMicco, but thought you migt like to know I once run a 4 mile race with former Boston Marathon and olympic woman's marathon champ Joan Benoit-Samuelson - and am proud to say I only lost to her by 26 seconds. Of course she was 9 months pregnant at the time....!

Mark

Mark, long term endurance type training seems to be a common factor with a lot of vagal afibbers. Larry Bird and Bill Bradley both get afib, and as former professional basketball players, definitely fell into the very fit category.

Your rate in afib is much lower than mine. I go really high, and it stays around 130 or so when I am in afib and not doing anything. The local cardiologist advises against me taking anything, other than propafenone, for rate control because my rate is normally so low.

Anyway, it is a very common thread. By the way, my best marathon time was 3:27, but that was 20 years ago or so.

John

John,

Although I am not an endurance athlete, the body perceives over exercising as stress. It takes a lot more nutrients for the individual who over exercises, as well, because of this. There have been many athletes that have frequented this site for the same reason as yours. Everything in moderation, including moderation itself.

Mg is also very well known here and there are several here that have eliminated AF by its use. Your cardiologists does not keep up with the research, otherwise he/she would have known about the positive effects of Mg. Mg has been used in hospitals to convert arrhythmias, and worked better than Amiodarone. A serum test, which is done in hospitals, does not indicate intracellular levels of Mg., therefore is not a true marker.

You should really read as much as you can here, and purchase a copy of Hans's book, for I believe he too was a runner, and now has the adrenergic form of AF that comes every two weeks. You have the opportunity to educate yourself as much as possible, and stop the progression, for you now know that it is a predisposition of your genetic makeup.

Take care of yourself,
Richard

Richard, I just got Hans' book about a week ago and have read it, but not studied it. I take mg supplements every day. For whatever reason, the afib has just been worse lately. Hopefully, it will go back to "normal" soon and visit me infrequently. I'm still trying to eliminate triggers, but I have to be missing something!

John.

Mark/John et al:
Check the profile of members here. I am typical of the endurance, otherwise healthy heart, athlete. I now exercise only sporadically, but it's a very common characteristic. Paula Radcliffe take mega doses pf Mg supplementation, because it's well known that endurance training depletes Mg levels. Nobody told me this stuff at the time!!

David
2:53 PB 10-times marathoner

John,

As it took your body sometime to develope AF, it will also take awhile to heal it. Make sure you're avoiding all MSG, sulfite, nitrate, and aspartame containing foods, along with alcohol and caffeine. Just remember that any chemicals that are put into the body, the body must take nutrients and energy to dispose of it. That's not to mention the effects that can be caused by ingesting any chemicals.

I hope you figure this out.

Richard

John -

Although you said magnesium hydroxide was what put you back into NSR, in case you didn't read this already, you would be better off with magnesium glycinate or magnesium taurate which are the most absorbable forms.

Lorraine

Mark:

I can't imagine your doctor scoffing at your suggestion of Mg supplementation. Magnesium sulfate has been used in hospital for many years in treating arrhythmias. In "code" situations which are usually V Tach, Magnesium is given in the form of either IV bolus or drip. It would act the same way in V Tach or Afib. He is very behind the times and narrow minded. If I told my doctor that I read where if you ate a 4 leaf clover it would convert you, I would expect him to deal with it respectfully. Any doctor who scoffed at me would be sumarily dismissed. Hope you find a new doctor who isn't so arrogant.

Stay well Mark, and thanks for your story,

Pam

Pam, i can imagine it very well, because my own experience of physicians is that they have a knee-jerk reaction to any mention of vitamin or mineral supplementation, and the one described here is typical. I just don't mention supplementation of any kind to them, and they never ask. It is as though they cannot think outside of whatever was in their medical schoolbooks. It doesn't do much for my respect for their intellect.
Peggy

It's a real shame that on top of having to deal with afib, we also must deal with arrogant, ignorant physicians. Unfortunately, I don't have holistic doctors nearby, so up to this point I have chosen to use this forum and the internet instead. A year ago I told my cardiologist I didn't want to take the Toprol XL or digoxin he prescribed, and would rather try magnesium, etc. He asked why and I told him I read a lot about it on the internet. He said in that case, perhaps I'd better use the internet as my doctor. I gladly took his advice that time!

Lorraine

Lorraine, that's another real typical response. Its as though their selfesteem is damaged by the thought of a lowly patient daring to think things through for herself. They experience it as a challenge to their authority. I tend to seek out female physicians when i have any choice in the matter because they tend not to have this particular reaction, it is an older-male thing, it seems.
Peggy

Peggy -

The cardidologist was in fact an elderly man who talked small talk on the phone with his wife as I sat there for 15 minutes in the middle of the session! He told me that from what I described, he was pretty sure I did not have afib. I had suggested I did and was treated like an overly nervous woman. Two months later the monitor confirmed the afib.

Lorraine

Lorraine - now that's what I call a very insecure doctor. My doctors welcome the articles I bring in and one even asks me to do research on the Internet. It's been acknowledged that with the advent of the Internet, patients are becoming more conversant on their conditions than some of their doctors...and they don't always like it. Some even get an "attitude" as yours did. Glad you looked elsewhere.

I continue to be amazed at doctors and cardiologists who refuse to look into the basic "fuel" that runs the body and evaluate of there is enough or if the body is even utilizing the fuel.

Just as you can't expect a car to run without gas; we can't expect our body to run without the right fuel....and it isn't written on a prescription pad.

Many are just not tuned into the importance of something very basic, like magnesium....and more than basic, critical when it comes to heart function.

Kinda shakes one's confidence, no?

Jackie

Jackie -

Sure does shake one's confidence and also sometimes one's spirit! And this guy was highly recommended by a colleague at an Ivy League University. He got the "Best Teacher" award, too. I would hope that the medical students are learning more than he can offer.

Lorraine

You want to know why some doctors don't favor trying simple things like magnesium?

Hospital/tests/doctor visits sine I was diagnosed 1/2: $25,700.00
Cost of a bottle of 100 500mg tablets of Magnesium: $3.98