Latest Episode - read all about it!

Hi folks,

Well last night at 3.20am I awoke in the throws of a visit by our collective adversary AF. Seemed to kick off with a few longish (10 secs) bouts of rapid flutter interspersed with some thuds and bangs, then it settled into 'proper' AF. For the first half hour the resting ventricular rate (RVR) was around 85-95. Then for an hour it was steadier at around 70-75 (could hardly feel it during this time). Then it got a little more agitated for another hour at 85-95. Then I turned over and lay on my stomach and it self-converted.......... BLISSFULL NSR!! The whole episode lasted some 2.9 hours, and once my initial concern abated (with the help of my girl in the form of some soothing pampering and reassurance), I must say that the episode was not too uncomfortable/symptomatic. I did, however, note that changing position and having a (typically long) pee did aggravate things a bit as is to be expected.

I am SO SO grateful for the collective knowledge, support, reassurance, and kindness I have received from this forum. I did not panic this time, and comfortably resisted the urge to have myself transported to hospital. I chilled out and experienced my shortest episode to date.

Just to recap my episodes:
1. Oct 99 - awoke into episode which lasted around 3 hrs - not too symptomatic - self-converting - no alchohol the night before, but came at time of great stress (death of estranged father and trying to sort out debt-ridden mess of an estate). I had let off steam dancing in a hot nightcub for hours till late the night before........... dehydration??
2. May 02 - 10pm in HOT bath after LARGE meal (at 9 pm) and after 2 bottles of malt in previous 2 days. OK OK I know. RVR around 130 and quite unpleasantly symptomatic. Went to hospital where I was given lashings of digoxin and 'threatened' with amiodrone........ I'm SURE the episode would have ended sooner than the 20 hrs it lasted (self-converting) without the digoxin.
3. Nov 02 - awoke 7 am with episode - RVR 80 or so - not too uncomfortable at all really. But anxious so attended hospital anyway. No meds administered and episode ended after 4.5 hrs. I'd had some VERY rich choccies and best part of a bottle of red wine the night before.
4. Last night. OK. Admission time. I had a 5 mile rocky coastal foreshore walk yesterday and sweated profusely and drank little water. Then I had a bottle of red and a 9pm HEAVY lamb and rice meal and 2 bags of chemical-laden crisps.

So, I guess I'm REALLY gonna have to cut out the booze (and late eating). I did cut out ALL spirits after my May 2002 episode, but have gradually over tha 11 months since my Nov 2002 episode lapsed into pushing a bottle of wine or the best part thereof per night. Yeah I know. I REALLY do know better, but it's amazing how weak and pathetic human beings can be. I must admit, I love the release a bottle provides, but....... it's gotta stop.

Funny thing is, I'd had LESS ectopy than is the norm for me the last couple of days preceding my latest episode. And I'm right back to having my normal ammount now the next day. Looks like I'm definately vagal for sure. Maybe I should get some Norpace or Flec for on-demand self-medication upon episode onset. But then again, if I can get away with shortish self-converting episodes in the night for the near-medium term future, then I should leave the meds alone altogether for if and when I really need them. Maybe cutting out booze, being more meticulous with my diet and supplements, and continuing with my psychotherapy might well, in time, do the trick as regards eliminating AF. Knocking on wood as I say this, but I can't grumble too much with how things have gone the last 4 years..... 4 episodes with the last 2 almost a year apart and self-converting after a few hours. Not too bad at all really, and a record I know many of you would gladly substitute for their own. Last thing (at last I hear you say!): the calmest hour of last nights episode reminded me of how I felt for 2 days some 16 years ago when I remember my heart skipping all over the place - no symptoms at all though and young and daft (errr dafter) and didn't pay it much attention. I'm almost certain that it was an early AF episode........... 16 yrs ago. That spell of palps came after I'd crash-dieted 4 stones off in 4 months........... Yeah I know.......... for all my purported intelligence, what an IDIOT I have been over the years.

Still, now I'm on board with all you great folks here, I'm learning learning listening listening.

Thanks again y'all for being there/here.

Mike F.

Hi, Mike
Your episodes of vaf are so infrequent and you seem to be handling them well on your own, that I would think that holding off on medications would be a good idea.

You seem to have insight into what is triggering them, so with a little mindfulness about getting plenty of water, cutting out the booze , what food you are putting into your body and not eating late, you should be able to keep it in check. Sounds like you are on top of it.

I find that a steady awareness or mindfulness - not obsession - about how I go about my daily living is very, very helpful. I kind of monitor myself, physically and emotionally.

Carol

Hi Mike - Sorry to hear about your recent event, but very pleased to learn how you are handling it. Becoming educated seems to result in this control over the tendency to panic. Postural changes often seem to end an event; also taking an additional dose or two of magnesium may help lessen the duration and intensity. Your awareness of your obvious trigger last night should put you on notice about consequences and choices. We all do it - or used to. Once one has the feeling of control over risking an event or avoiding one, the choice seems pretty easy.

I agree with Carol - mindfulness is the key. Since you have done so well and have had so few episodes, why not wait to see what the magnesium does for you. I think you will find that it helps tremendously and you probably won't have to go on medication. If you give it time, you may even find it "cures" the problem.

Since your indulgences are all contributors to magnesium depletion, you may notice a huge improvement if you avoid the indulgences and add the extra magnesium. Eventually, it could be possible to indulge occasionally at the risk of backsliding. That would be your choice.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. It's good to know the input from this forum has been helpful to you. Take care. Be well. Jackie

You're like me Mike

You learn by your own experience. 'Just because it works for someone else doesn't necessarily mean it will work for me.' I was like that in the beginning with alcohol. I just didn't want to believe that something so enjoyable and social could possibly have such a dramatic influence. Funny thing is now I don't miss having a drink, though there are times when I could certainly do with one - to deal with a shock or celebration. That is the only time I miss it, but it is only momentary.

Keep at it

Fran

Mike, you are doing great! My last few episodes have been similar, but with a much higher HR. I take an extra propafenone, go back to sleep, and it's gone when I wake up.

For me, it is purely gastronomical. I do not think moderate alcohol affects mine at all, but late, big meals do. Do you keep some pepcid or something similar on hand? That can help. My pattern sounds like yours--I eat late or bigger than usual, wake up with those damned flutters and go into afib for 3 or 4 hours.

Try magnesium, that really helps, and if you get stuck with a later than usual, or richer than usual, or whatever meal, take a heartburn medication or something. Experiment and see what happens!

John-in NSR, for the most part!

Mike I hope you are settled now.

I get self imposed AF now and again, I really beat myself up over it .Yes it’s stupid and all that but at the time well you are having such good fun. I've learnt to run the rough with the smooth. I ‘m very aware of heart remodelling i.e. AF begets AF. Thus if you can avoid triggers then you should do so. I have set myself limits on what and how much I drink and also when to eat , but now and again!!. Human nature being what it is we all make mistakes. Gradually you think was a couple of hour’s fun worth the anguish and apprehension that goes with it. Your choice. Now and again I make the wrong choice and often it wasn’t worth it. I love life and hope to do so for a long time hence trying to help myself with this condition. I am learning and to limit myself most of the time and bad choices are becoming less and less. I learn slightly very time and feel confident I can find my own balance.
Try not to get to morbid I’m sure a lot of fellow suffers do it and learn from it.
I always think that my AF isn’t half as bad as other’s here on the forum who would never put themselves in a position to get AF, massive guilt trip, but yes I am weak, but we all try in our own way. Never give up don’t let it beat you, find your balance.
Remember if you don’t wear any sock then you can’t pull them up!!.
Take it easy
Chris H

Mike,
Thanks for sharing your journey with this. As others have said, we all play around with what we think we can get away until we realize it's not much and the misery of the aftermath is not worth it.

I partied hardy the other night, and even though I don't drink at all and did drink enough water that day, I was up way too late at night and ate a buncha bad stuff like chocolate and chips and butter, thinking I could maybe cheat just a little.

Well, here I am at 1 a.m. trying to talk my heart out of going into afib. So far I'm still in NSR but there are definitely flutters and my heart is not a happy camper. I'm also bloated as heck.

Making these dietary and lifestyle changes is a journey, sometimes a very long one. Go easy on yourself and keep hanging out here. Like you, I avoided panicking and going to the hospital during my last episode two weeks ago, thanks to the support and excellent research and sharing of the people here. It's nice to know we have a place to go to share with others who understand what we're going through!

Hang in there!

k

you said it best. Your condition is nowhere near the point where you should even be thinking about it. So don't drink a bottle of wine a night,
eat a little better, take the supplements talked about on this board,
hydrate well and live your life. Using the meds on demand might not be a bad idea, so have it around in case you need it. Otherwise, this condition
is a mere nuisance for you, and I think it is going overboard to eliminate
anything in life you enjoy completely because of four episodes over four
years.

I have episodes monthly and if I gave up everything that has been associated with an episode I would cease enjoying my life. So I moderate
the alcohol, moderate the exercise, spicy foods, blah blah blah. But my
condition would have to worsen greatly to consider total abstinence.
I tried that for a few months, no exercise, alcohol, spicy foods, etc. Guess
what, instead of an episode every two weeks, I had them twice per month.

Enjoy your life, Mike. You stress out over your Afib much too much.
First suggestion, spend a little less time on this board. You know the things you can do to help. At some point, even this board can become an unhealthy obsession, as helpful as it can be.

Mike--

Your episodes are not unlike mine were. I, too, gave up alcohol for a while and eating late meals, especially big ones.

Now I drink occasionally and occasionally eat a little bit late, but I always am mindful of the risk of afib. Three or four hours of afib in the middle of the night may not be life-threatening but it certainly cuts down on your sleep for that night. And your performance the next day at work or wherever.

So I try to limit my alcohol intake to one drink--a beer or a glass of wine and no more. Actually one drink seems like plenty these days. I get that moment of bliss and that is really quite enough. More alcohol seems to lead to eating more and drinking more and thus adding to the spare tire in addition to the afib risk.

I don't think moderation is so bad. Avoiding afib is definitely good.

Hi again folks,

Just a note to say a BIG thanks for the responses to my post. Kestra kinda sums it up with:
"It's nice to know we have a place to go to share with others who understand what we're going through!"

I note the word 'obsession' creeping into a couple of responses............. OK OK guilty as charged. In fact, I have in the past been diagnosed and councilled for OCD. I make a big effort NOT to obsess, but it is very easy for me to slide into it. I have contemplated looking in on this board less frequently........... but I guess that:
1. I am genuinely interested in keeping up to date as regards my options should my AF get worse in the future;
2. I am genuinely concerned as regards how you lot (who I honestly consider as my friends and allies) are getting on with tackling and dealing with your own AF;
3. Errrrmmm......... OK I am a bit of an obsessive!
Maybe half an hour per day is too much time to spend here?? And I do take some folks' point that life is there to be lived and one should NOT be TOO pre-occupied with ectopy/AF.

No booze since Sat evening - longest abstinence for some time! I know that I could reasonably have one or two small glasses, but I'm afraid I'm a bit of an (as Richard Harris once said) an 'excessive' personality sort of guy. Sooooooooo hard to NOT have a full bottle of wine once I start (for many years I thought that stopping halfway through a bottle of malt represented commendable self-control!) So I think best to leave it alone.... Well...... I cut out spirits 18 months ago. Now I'll cut out wine. I MAY permit myself a beer or two as this is a drink that I've never felt the urge to 'throw' down my gullet in bulk.

Cheers,

Mike F.

Hi, Mike
Alcohol of any sort is known to seriously deplete magnesium. (Seelig, The Magnesium Factor)
Good luck cutting down or completely out.
Carol

Carol,

I just got an email from Amazon saying that my Seelig book is being shipped............. so I'll be reading it real soon.

Mike F.

Mike, Sorry to hear about the afib episode but congrats on your tempered response. It quite possibly could be the reason you converted so quickly. I really do understand how one glass of red can turn into two or three. Wine never seems to taste better the next day. Perhaps if you were to purchase a wine keeper, you know, that thing that sucks the air out of the bottle so the wine doesn't oxidize and go bad, then you would be able to keep it for longer periods. Just a thought.

Adrian v49

Mike:

Susan's post, for me, is absolutely spot-on. Don't eliminate everything you enjoy. You sound like you get similar triggers to me. But if it were alcohol, my guess is that you should have had a hell of a lot more episodes than you've had. Put it this way: we often blame whatever we feel guilty about as the cause of our episodes. Why don't we ever attribute preventative qualities to those same 'triggers' when we DON'T experience episodes having taken them??

Having said that, there may be other reasons why you should cut back on the amount of alcohol you consume, unrelated to AFIB.

Mindfulness is one half of it: Moderation is the other: magnesium might be the 3rd M (can't be sure yet): Maintainning perspective is the fourth half!!

Slainte

david