2 months post PVI/A

Greetings once again to Hans`afibbers.Monday will be 2 months since my PVI/A at NYU and I have many thoughts I`d like to share.First for the update on the procedure..Up to this point I haven`t gone back into Afib since the ablation.I am off of Coumadin and Flec but remain on a small dose of Toprol(between 25 and 50 mg per day.)I have resumed my life pre afib performing live music and writing music.As a bonus,my GERD symptoms(which began a few months after my afib began)have strangely disappeared over the last month.I continue to take reflux meds(20 mg of Aciphex) but that particular med seems really tame compared to the heart meds we all have been on.I dont know if there`s a connection between afib and reflux but I have been reading more about the relationship...As far as working out goes,I`m absolutely not back to where I was before the ablation. I find that it takes less activity to get my HR up to the 120-135 range.This is is one area where I`m not that satisfied as of yet.I have heard that 2 months is still slightly early to know where you`ll be for good...Dont get me wrong,I`m working out 3-5 times a week and have biked,kayaked,walked and all are ok,there just not where I`d like to be yet..Other strange occurances have been : prolonged spells of dizzyness,almost a feeling of vertigo(since stopping Flec,dramatic improvement)an involuntary muscle twitch which stays in the same place for a few days and then finds a new home somewhere else(Sarno`s book anyone?).Occasional rapid heart rate but not irregular....So,the news is mostly good with some minor blemishes....Now,I have a question for paroxysmal afibbers that I`d really like a response to..I came on to this BB in June of 03` after about 18 months of knowing I had afib symptoms.It`s now Oct. and I truly believe that I have been"cured." The question is-to those afibbers who have Lone AF,have health insurance,are not in permenant AF and have suffered with this affliction for years,what reason(s) can you give for NOT going this ablation route.As soon as I studied up on PVI/A I KNEW that I wanted to give it a shot.We can talk till we`re hoarse about whether coffee is a trigger,whether magnesium can lessen symptoms etc. etc. but people,if there is a cure which would let you enjoy your life the way you were put on this earth to,why not take the risk? I was always more into holistics that western medicine but in this case I believe that I made the correct choice..I`m not asking this question with any negative feelings about anyone in the group at all.I LOVE this BB and continue to read it 2-3 times a day..Before my ablation I fought hard with doctors actually firing my PCP over his unwillingness to believe that PVI even existed..I went against my 2nd EP`s referral of a PVI specialist(I couldnt find anything about him anywhere and he had only done about 50 PVI`s at the time.)So my friends,I know I`m writing an epic here but the point is,there is a cure with low risk..I have read most of Hans`reports about radiation,stenosis etc. and I can appreciate what he has written.All I can say is that symptoms began in Dec of 01`and have left in Oct of 03`.I`m enjoying red wine without going into flutter after 3 sips,and life is good again...Let me know what you think.....

Funny you should mention the disaperence of your GERD along with the ablation. Vicky, the girl who runs the vagal afib portal was telling me that Dr Hagiseure (sp) in France had written about how many autonomic problems cleared up 'mysteriously' alongside ablation. I wonder how it works.

That would be part of my problem about having an ablation. Once upon a time I was pleading with my Dr's to have one. But they told me NO. They tried to frighten me off - but then our local cardio does not have the experience of the world reknowned ones. Also alongside the stories of magic cures with ablation there are the stories - such as Pams, or the guy who has had 6. And the others who now experience flutter, or who got worse. As a last resort I focussed on nutrition and BINGO - that worked for me. If in the future it all falls apart and I end up how I used to be - I would reconsider, but I would save my pennies and go to France. But I would still be frightened as no -one knows really why it works. And the fact that it mysteriously works on other aspects of the ANS. What if it did something negative.

I'm so glad it worked for you. I'm glad for anyone who manages to rid themselves of this affliction. I suspect your heart rate is a bit erratic after stopping the flec. My heart rate went much faster than I was used to when I stopped meds but it settled down.

Fran

Sammy ...so glad to hear about your post ablation. I think I agree with Fran about the meds contributing your heart rate. I have heard that from many and I too had that and could not tolerate it ..so stay on just the toprol. It really works for me. I am symptom free. We are lucky in the USA as health insurance pays for this procedure. Depending on how your doc does his documentation prior to your procedure, indicates whether insurance will pay. I think you are suppose to have many episodes within a thirty day period for them to consider. Mine were not as frequent but were severe. Also if it is associated with alot of anxiety...this will help get the payment. I do insurance billing and diagnosis coding in my job. If you have to pay cash...trust me..you will try anything first. It is so costly. Yes it is a cure for many and any procedure is not without risks. I wanted to take the chance and did reseach my docs and believed in my cardio who referred me. Most people dont have a couple extra paychecks laying around let alone twenty thousand dollars. I feel very lucky that I was able to get mine paid for. If not I would have tried anything. There is alot of talk on here about what are triggers and the holistic approach....and I agree why not take a cure if its out there. For those who dont have any insurance its a whole other thing. I hope you continue to do well. If you havent had afib within four to six weeks after your procedure you are probably going to be fine. Keep us posted.

Sammy: I am meeting with the NYU group in two weeks. s there any resaearch offered about the long term success rates of ablation at NYU. Are there any such statistics. I spoke to Dr. L Epstein at Harvard(ablations) and he will not offer with certainty that the condition cannot reoccurr in 5 years time. His methods may be different.... as in italy. Any thoughts?
Garry

Sammy,
I guess I would answer your question philosophically by saying that I believe that the human body is naturally well built and optimally designed for survival of the species. I have tremendous respect for the enormous complexities of this divine design and believe in taking exquisite care of it .

When I drive by hospitals and see all the hundreds of cars in parking lots, I ask myself how so many human beings can be so poorly designed as to warrant huge medical complexes, doctors, nurses, technicians. etc. Then multiply that by the number of hospitals in a given city. It simply doesn't make sense. I realized, of course, tat most - not all - people are there because they don't take care of themselves. And the medical profession does little to advise people on taking care of themselves. They don't practice preventative medicine for a number of reasons, one of which is that they aren't motivated because it isn't a money maker.

Therefore, on a theoretical basis I believe that it is possible to prevent and cure most illnesses and disorders without going the drug or surgical route, both of which can damage the body further. Quick fixes are part of our culture, but I don't believe in them.

Carol

Sammy,

I am a LAF sufferer for twelve years. I am aware of a few triggers but mostly these attack come "out of the blue".

You ask why someone like me does not have an ablation? It is not money or lack of insurance. It is not because I do not live near a center that can do the proceedure. The truth is fear. The devil I know is better than the devil I don't know. At least for now. But as I read more and more about sucess stories like yours, I have hope and I get less fearful.

Thank you for your up-dates. I look forward to them.

Jeanne

Garry,someone can correct me if I`m wrong but I dont think that this method of ablation has been around for 5 years.Ablation,yes but not PVI.That`s probobly why no long term studies are that available or known..If someone can answer this question please do...Thanks for everyones feedback.I think that good health insurance is a real issue in persuing any surgery.The figure of 20,000 $ is about right for what my ins. company was charged...Like Carol, I also always believed in the pureness of the human body in it`s original form..Unfortunately even after treating our bodies well,time and other factors can give us problems...I always said I would NEVER take prescription drugs..that is until my father died from esophagael cancer..About 9 months later,I began having what eventually killed my dad,GERD.He never even knew it was GERD.To him it was just indegestion or heartburn.Maybe if there was a PPI drug many years back he might still be around.When I started getting those GERD symptoms I changed my thinking about prescrip. drugs..There is a time and place for many things and I figured that it would be in my best interest to keep acid production to a minimum...Not to be gloomy but my mom said to me"in the end,somethings gonna get you" and we cant argue with that thinking.While we`re here I think I`ll try to get a balanced mix of natural and when needed,medical help..In the meantime,I`m waking up tomorrow,juicing and going for a bike-ride.....

Working in the medical field I can tell you that no one is born perfect. People do all the right things and still get sick or develope problems. thank goodness for all the great medication out there. Its not without risks but many are excellent. Look at all the cardiac meds out like Zocor and Lipitor that are preventative medications. They help so many people. Also as Sammy stated...the GERD meds that are helping thousands. I know many including doctors themselves who eat right...live right etc etc. and out of the blue illness strikes....also children that do nothing but just be born and serious illness happens and sometimes takes their lives. The hospital parking lot theory just doesnt make sense and is too generalized. Hopefully for those who think their bodies are a perfect composition and nothing is going to happen to them...good luck...in the end something does get everyone. Few die of old age and pass peacefully...at least with some of our pain medications....it can make the end more comfortable for those who need it. It doesnt make all doctoring and medication right but it sure helps.

GERD medications have been shown to have bad side effects. Long term use is dangerous. There are more natural ways to handle Gerd.

I agree that there are people born with "abnormalities," and that they often require intrusive treatment in the form of pharmaceutical drugs and surgical procedures. Some abnormalities may be accidental, but, one has to consider in vitro exposure to drugs, pharmaceutical drugs, nicotine, alcohol, pesticides, herbicides, poor nutrition , etc. causing abnormalities.

There is too great a tendency in medicine (and in society) to rush for the technological or chemical magic bullet or quick fix. This is part and parcel of the whole litigation scene, which has doctors terrified of doing anything that might look the least bit "unconventional." This mindset predisposes against quiet, thoughtful working WITH - the body. Gerd , for example, is thought to be brought on by stress. Rather than address the causes of stress and eliminate them, we subject the body to further stress - unnatural, artificial chemicals or drugs.

Visualize, if you will, a typical "hospital" of the future in which 80% of it's space and services are devoted to free education on nutrition, stress reduction, exercise, counseling, weight reduction, alcohol and substance abuse, hygiene, sleep, posture, etc. These services would be the major part of a check up. Doctors would routinely refer their patients to these services. Yes, there would be clinics for setting broken bones and taking care of teeth and rehabilitation for torn muscles, etc.

Speaking of being in the medical field, I was married for 11 years to a brilliant doctor, from the time he graduated second in his class at Harvard Medical School, held top, coveted internships and residencies and received appointments to leading teaching and research hospitals. I know the medical field at first hand. I was immersed in it.

Carol

Carol, when I started getting GERD symptoms I researched very deeply, become a vegetarian for a year,was drinking aloe juice,tried accupuncture,deep breathing and meditation,made lists of "acid producing and alkaline producing foods",was taking licorice supplements and others all to no avail.It was only at that point that I decided I needed other kinds of help,especially after losing my father to that disease.I also have read about the negative effects of taking PPI drugs but in the end it`s just a balance I`m looking for.It seems to be working for me.I can appreciate the theory of trying to always go the holistic route and I am a fan of Gary Null but I`ve learned to become more open to all options.

Hi, Sammy

In light of your father's death, I can understand your feelings about developing GERD symptoms.

Believe me, I always keep an open mind towards traditional medical practice. Certainly there is a place for it. I have good internists, one in Boston, one more local, and I have yearly check ups. But, I feel that I have to second guess them all too often. However, they are respecful of my thoughts and wishes! One of them is impressed with my thinking and has often told me that I should have studied to be a doctor!!! Fancy that.

Who is Gary Null? Maybe I will try a search.

Carol

Carol,Gary`s website is garynull.com He`s been a big influence although I dont agree with his politics.Definately worth looking into. He has a radio show on WBAI(in N.Y.)from 12-1 in the afternoon.Maybe they have live streaming if you dont live close enough..

Just a quick follow up.I rode 12 miles today on my bike and Iam experiencing extreme dizzyness.It starts towards the 8th mile or so and lasts well into the day.There`s something not right as of yet.It`s a little bit concerning..It`s not even that I`m doing a fast pace.It took 45-50 minutes to do the 12 miles...Hopefully this wont last.

Sammy

If you are only juicing in the morning this may be your problem with dizziness. Can you eat protein in the morning? I eat fish for breakfast followed by my juice.

My sister has espohageal cancer at this moment in time. She has been very lucky so far. She was diagnosed 2 to 3 years after onset with a 5cm tumour. She had radiation and chemo earlier this year. IT zapped the tumour away to scar tissue. Her first set of biopsies (they did lots) showed 1 area with abnormal cells. The last set showed no abnormal growths - just extensive scar tissue. Her next appointment for biopsies and scan is on Oct 29 and I can see how worried she is. They can't do surgery due to her rheumatoid arthritis.... and they can't treat her RA because of her cancer....

My question. The Dr's have her still on losec and won't let her have the PPI's. I have read up on both and can't understand why. I know that these meds are no good long term, but we're talking extending life and giving some quality of life here, not re-gaining full health. I wish we weren't.

Anyway good luck with all your ventures

Fran

Sammy,

Just wondering how you are doing? I hope that the dizziness has stopped.

I agree with Fran about having protein first in the morning, instead of or before carbohydrates.

Carol

Fran,maybe you could give me some thoughts about this.I NEVER eat anything before I work out(besides hydrating myself).I think my post was misleading when I said juicing and a bike ride.It`s actually the other way around.I always work out in the morning and maybe this might be part of my problem.The dizziness pretty much went away today but it`s making me slightly paranoid about doing certain aerobic activities.I also tried a day of no Toprol and I found that my energy level was incredably higher.My HR was under control and I`m now thinking of staying off the meds for good if it goes well over the next few days.I`m so ready to leave those drugs behind.I`m hoping that this dizziness problem goes away soon.Thanks for your help as well as everyone on this awesome BB...

My thoughts:

What fuel is your body running on during your morning workouts?

You have just fasted overnight. Fasting is good for some people but not for those of us with electrolyte problems - especially if you are training. You have not broken the fast with break-fast. Then you do some hard physical work out. Your nutrient supplies are low. Your body runs out of glucose and fat so suddenly your brain does not get fuel - you get dizzy. So your body has to break into storage - ie. glucagen from the liver. This calls for the adrenals etc to kick in, which also calls for reserves of Mg, K etc. Whilst you are working out you are also going to break a bit of a sweat further depleting your electrolytes.

Its a vicious circle. You will always be playing catchup. Put the fuel in first. The best fuel you could have would be protein and a peice of mg and K containing fruit or veg before your work out. The protein will temper the sugar kick from the fruit and give you ongoing fuel with no need to break into stored glucagen.

Hope that helps and let me know how it went if you try it. Don't go for nitrite and MSG full bacon.

Fran

Fran,I will try your suggestion.It`s just that in all the years I`ve been working out I never ate before a workout.I does make sense that you`re running on empty after fasting overnight...PS,I absolutely can not get off of Toprol.Every time I`ve tried I`ve had problems.I almost fainted while shopping in a store yesterday after almost 3 days off of Toprol.Soon after dosing I was ok again..Today was a lot better and was able to do some weight training and Nordic Tracking...