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panic or arrythmia?
Posted by Rucan
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panic or arrythmia? May 12, 2024 01:08AM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 55 |
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 12, 2024 03:23AM |
Admin Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 5,856 |
Well, to begin with, do you have a history of panic attacks? If so, is a HR of 140 typical of your panic attacks? Second, feel your pulse. If it's a panic attack you'll be in sinus tachycardia, which is a rapid but perfectly regular rhythm. You should be able to tap your finger along with your heart beats and it should be a rhythm a drummer would play. Or is it totally irregular and without rhythm, a rhythm no drummer would play? If it's irregular, that's probably not a panic attack. And finally, are you also hyperventilating? Do you feel like you can't breathe and do you feel tingling sensations in your arms and hands? If you do, it's probably a panic attack.
You could also make it easier by buying a Kardia and seeing what it says. They're not all that expensive and you don't need to sign up for the plan.
You could also make it easier by buying a Kardia and seeing what it says. They're not all that expensive and you don't need to sign up for the plan.
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 12, 2024 05:27AM |
Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 1,090 |
A panic attack will be evident in breathlessness or heavy breathing, but mainly in the pounding heart. As Carey says, the rate will be cyclic and even, but it will be very forceful...pounding...in your head, your neck, you chest, and you may break out in a sheen of perspiration all over your upper lip and forehead, your scalp. It's in preparation to help you to flee or to fight.
If you feel flops and thumps only in your left chest, and your neck or wrist pulse is irregular, or hardly felt at all, that might be an arrythmia. A Kard ia or smart watch will take an ECG and let you know.
The rate, above 100, is only important if you're not exercising much, moving much, and only sitting or lying in bed and thinking of something that you know has gone wrong, or that probably will go wrong when it takes place. Worry, anxiety, fear, loathing...they can bring on tachycardia just through adrenalin, which is a key component of the flight-or-fight response. The high rate is also only important if it stays there for long periods, but certainly if longer than 24 hours. If that happens, but also if it really intrudes, and causes a great reduction in the quality of your life, you should seek help. The ER is probably the best place to be evaluated most quickly and helped if it won't settle after a few hours.
If you feel flops and thumps only in your left chest, and your neck or wrist pulse is irregular, or hardly felt at all, that might be an arrythmia. A Kard ia or smart watch will take an ECG and let you know.
The rate, above 100, is only important if you're not exercising much, moving much, and only sitting or lying in bed and thinking of something that you know has gone wrong, or that probably will go wrong when it takes place. Worry, anxiety, fear, loathing...they can bring on tachycardia just through adrenalin, which is a key component of the flight-or-fight response. The high rate is also only important if it stays there for long periods, but certainly if longer than 24 hours. If that happens, but also if it really intrudes, and causes a great reduction in the quality of your life, you should seek help. The ER is probably the best place to be evaluated most quickly and helped if it won't settle after a few hours.
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 12, 2024 10:01AM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 55 |
Quote
Carey
Well, to begin with, do you have a history of panic attacks? If so, is a HR of 140 typical of your panic attacks? Second, feel your pulse. If it's a panic attack you'll be in sinus tachycardia, which is a rapid but perfectly regular rhythm. You should be able to tap your finger along with your heart beats and it should be a rhythm a drummer would play. Or is it totally irregular and without rhythm, a rhythm no drummer would play? If it's irregular, that's probably not a panic attack. And finally, are you also hyperventilating? Do you feel like you can't breathe and do you feel tingling sensations in your arms and hands? If you do, it's probably a panic attack.
You could also make it easier by buying a Kardia and seeing what it says. They're not all that expensive and you don't need to sign up for the plan.
I do have a Kardia mobile and recorded it within 5 minutes of having this high heart rate. All it said was tachycardia like it usually does when they happen. I don't get any tingling but exreme fear like I am going to pass out or die like I am going ot stop breathing. I have worn a 14 day holter monitor before but had no episodes while wearing it so nothing was recorded. My cardiolgist and family doctor don't know what it is. My cardiologist said it could be an arrythmia but there was no evidence of it on the holter monitor, so he doesn't know. This started happening last year and I am 57 years old and have never had these before and have never had a history of panic attacks in my life. My family Doctor said there is a possibility that it could be from panic attacks. I just don't understand because up to last year I had never had this before and it just goes off on it's own while I am sitting at the table and just reading on my laptop or sometimes just watching tv. They happen about once a month but sometimes it can happen every 2-3 months. They are frightening when they come on. The last one sent my heart rate to 157 bpm within 2 minutes but went back to 100 bpm in 10 minutes. The one yesterday went to 130 bpm within a couple of minutes but heart rate back to 80 bpm withing 10 minutes. Left me scared and exhausted. For the first time yesterday when it started, I stopped breathing for the first 2 seconds. I just don't know if it is arrythmia or panic as I have never had either in my life.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2024 10:05AM by Rucan.
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 12, 2024 10:12AM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 55 |
Quote
gloaming
A panic attack will be evident in breathlessness or heavy breathing, but mainly in the pounding heart. As Carey says, the rate will be cyclic and even, but it will be very forceful...pounding...in your head, your neck, you chest, and you may break out in a sheen of perspiration all over your upper lip and forehead, your scalp. It's in preparation to help you to flee or to fight.
If you feel flops and thumps only in your left chest, and your neck or wrist pulse is irregular, or hardly felt at all, that might be an arrythmia. A Kard ia or smart watch will take an ECG and let you know.
The rate, above 100, is only important if you're not exercising much, moving much, and only sitting or lying in bed and thinking of something that you know has gone wrong, or that probably will go wrong when it takes place. Worry, anxiety, fear, loathing...they can bring on tachycardia just through adrenalin, which is a key component of the flight-or-fight response. The high rate is also only important if it stays there for long periods, but certainly if longer than 24 hours. If that happens, but also if it really intrudes, and causes a great reduction in the quality of your life, you should seek help. The ER is probably the best place to be evaluated most quickly and helped if it won't settle after a few hours.
I have gone to the ER before by ambulance for this. By the time they arrive to get me a couple of times in the past, my heart rate is still high but the episode has passed and the ekg is normal. I don't get perspirtation or feel nothing in my head or neck.My heart nevers feels like it's pounding, it just is very fast and usually my legs feel weak like I am going to fall or pass out but I have never passed out when it happens. Leaves me feeling exhausted sometimes for hours after it happens.
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 12, 2024 02:10PM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 942 |
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 12, 2024 02:23PM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 55 |
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Pompon
It's Murphy's Law.
Use your kardia as much as you can while you're feeling wrong and show the recordings to your cardiologist.
That's what I did, since nothing never happened while I was wearing a holter monitor.
I have done this and my kardia mobile only ever shows tachycardia and nothing else.
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 12, 2024 02:59PM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 942 |
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 12, 2024 03:39PM |
Admin Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 5,856 |
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 12, 2024 04:45PM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 55 |
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Carey
I have done this and my kardia mobile only ever shows tachycardia and nothing else.
Then it's very unlikely to be afib. I think what you really need is to wear a monitor again and keep wearing it until you capture an episode. Even a PCP can order a monitor.
My cardiologist (which isn't that helpful) thinks I may or may not have an arrythmia. He only put me on a 5 day monitor and doesnt seem interested in puting me on one again. He said to use my Kardia mobile. But my kardia mobile only records tachyardia every time. If it is an arrythmia I don't believe it is afib because my rythm is normal just very fast. (130-160 bpm) when I have an episode.
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 12, 2024 05:43PM |
Registered: 2 years ago Posts: 1,090 |
Quote
Rucan
A panic attack will be evident in breathlessness or heavy breathing, but mainly in the pounding heart. As Carey says, the rate will be cyclic and even, but it will be very forceful...pounding...in your head, your neck, you chest, and you may break out in a sheen of perspiration all over your upper lip and forehead, your scalp. It's in preparation to help you to flee or to fight.
If you feel flops and thumps only in your left chest, and your neck or wrist pulse is irregular, or hardly felt at all, that might be an arrythmia. A Kard ia or smart watch will take an ECG and let you know.
The rate, above 100, is only important if you're not exercising much, moving much, and only sitting or lying in bed and thinking of something that you know has gone wrong, or that probably will go wrong when it takes place. Worry, anxiety, fear, loathing...they can bring on tachycardia just through adrenalin, which is a key component of the flight-or-fight response. The high rate is also only important if it stays there for long periods, but certainly if longer than 24 hours. If that happens, but also if it really intrudes, and causes a great reduction in the quality of your life, you should seek help. The ER is probably the best place to be evaluated most quickly and helped if it won't settle after a few hours.
I have gone to the ER before by ambulance for this. By the time they arrive to get me a couple of times in the past, my heart rate is still high but the episode has passed and the ekg is normal. I don't get perspirtation or feel nothing in my head or neck.My heart nevers feels like it's pounding, it just is very fast and usually my legs feel weak like I am going to fall or pass out but I have never passed out when it happens. Leaves me feeling exhausted sometimes for hours after it happens.
What you describe is definitely NOT a panic attack. The dyspnea and weakness in the legs suggests to me that you are in arrythmia.
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 12, 2024 07:40PM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 55 |
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 12, 2024 07:59PM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 55 |
Quote
Carey
Well, to begin with, do you have a history of panic attacks? If so, is a HR of 140 typical of your panic attacks? Second, feel your pulse. If it's a panic attack you'll be in sinus tachycardia, which is a rapid but perfectly regular rhythm. You should be able to tap your finger along with your heart beats and it should be a rhythm a drummer would play. Or is it totally irregular and without rhythm, a rhythm no drummer would play? If it's irregular, that's probably not a panic attack. And finally, are you also hyperventilating? Do you feel like you can't breathe and do you feel tingling sensations in your arms and hands? If you do, it's probably a panic attack.
You could also make it easier by buying a Kardia and seeing what it says. They're not all that expensive and you don't need to sign up for the plan.
I only have these episodes every 1-3 months depending. But twice in the last 2 weeks. Heart rate is usually 130-160 when it happens. I am always in sinus tachycardia according to my kardia mobile when it happens. I can breathe when it happens but it is so scary it puts me in a panic when it is going on like I am about to die it's so scary. This started about 2 years ago. I had never had anxiety in my life so that is why I don't know if that is it like some have suggested. It is just odd that I would develop anxiety after 50 plus years of never having it. The problem I have is my cardiologist doesn't know either way . He said it could be anxiety even though I have had no history of it in my life. But he als says it could be an arrythmia.
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 12, 2024 08:49PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 253 |
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 12, 2024 09:27PM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 55 |
I have done numerous EKG'S and even wore a holter monitor. But during my EKG'S and wearing a holter monitor I did not have any episode. Episodes only have happened when not wearing a holter monitor or while not doing an EKG. I don't know if my Kardia mobile would catch flutter or svt. All it ever shows during episodes is tachycardia.Quote
mjamesone
You need an ekg and an experienced ep to analyze the situation. If your rate is regular, that rules out afib, but a HR of 130-160 could have other causes than panic/anxiety such as flutter or SVT.
Jim
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 12, 2024 09:33PM |
Admin Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 5,856 |
A Kardia can't identify atrial flutter or SVT. Nothing can if it doesn't have at least two leads, and even then it's dicey because the Kardia leads are so far from the heart. P waves are the key to diagnosing flutter, but P waves are very low amplitude and they're very diminished by the time they reach the Kardia.
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 12, 2024 11:37PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 253 |
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Rucan
I don't know if my Kardia mobile would catch flutter or svt. All it ever shows during episodes is tachycardia.
Kardia is not programmed to identify flutter or SVT. Both will always show as "Tachycardia". However, if you show the Kardia tracing to a good ep,
they will be able to at least give you an educated opinion. And even better if you use the Kardia 6L, because sometimes difficult to identify one tachycardia from another with a single lead.
Ideally, your tracing will show the "before" and/or the "after" as the transition into and out of an arrhythmia is also useful information in terms of identifying which arrhythmia it is. You didn't mention the frequency of these episodes, or how long you wore the "Holter"? If it was just a day or so, ask for a 2 week patch which can be repeated if necessary, assuming your episodes would reasonably fit into that time frame.
Jim
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 13, 2024 12:16AM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 55 |
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mjamesone
However, if you show the Kardia tracing to a good ep,
they will be able to at least give you an educated opinion. And even better if you use the Kardia 6L, because sometimes difficult to identify one tachycardia from another with a single lead.
Ideally, your tracing will show the "before" and/or the "after" as the transition into and out of an arrhythmia is also useful information in terms of identifying which arrhythmia it is. You didn't mention the frequency of these episodes, or how long you wore the "Holter"? If it was just a day or so, ask for a 2 week patch which can be repeated if necessary, assuming your episodes would reasonably fit into that time frame.
Jim
My kardia mobile is a 6 lead. I have these episodes every 1-3 months but for the first time I had it twice in 2 weeks. I wore the holter monitor for 2 weeks back in January but didnt have any episodes when wearing it for it to record. We don't even have and EP where I live. And I have no idea how to read my ekg's I record.
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 13, 2024 12:45AM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 4,497 |
My non-medical interpretation of what you've described is that the SVT or whatever is causing your anxiety, not the reverse. Seems like you are calm and casual, then BAM the SVT happens.
In my case, when I've been inadvertently consuming too much calcium, tachy is likely to present with no trigger. This never happens to me otherwise. In my case, the tachy can convert to afib (and the tachy may be flutter, I don't know).
In my case, when I've been inadvertently consuming too much calcium, tachy is likely to present with no trigger. This never happens to me otherwise. In my case, the tachy can convert to afib (and the tachy may be flutter, I don't know).
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 13, 2024 01:39AM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 55 |
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GeorgeN
My non-medical interpretation of what you've described is that the SVT or whatever is causing your anxiety, not the reverse. Seems like you are calm and casual, then BAM the SVT happens.
I thought SVT would not be in normal sinus rhythm? My episode always shows tachycardia but normal sinus rhythm.
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 13, 2024 02:00AM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 55 |
It is beyond frustrating living with this always worrying when the next episode will happen. Not being properly diagnosed with what this is. My cardiologist and family Doctor both do not know if it is an arrythmia or not means I can not be treated. I am open and desperate for a proper diagnosis. I do find it odd that it could possibly be panic attacks, only because I have no history of panic attacks and it would seem odd that panic attacks would just start after 55 years of never having them.
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 13, 2024 03:22AM |
Admin Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 5,856 |
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Rucan
I thought SVT would not be in normal sinus rhythm? My episode always shows tachycardia but normal sinus rhythm.
SVT is always a regular, sinus rhythm; it's just very fast (can't call it normal sinus rhythm because > 100 bpm isn't normal). That's why the Kardia is saying it's tachycardia because there's nothing it can see that makes it different.
I agree with Jim that a good EP could give you an educated opinion on it, and I also agree with George that it sounds to me like SVT is driving your anxiety, not the other way around. I've seen a lot of panic attacks and what you describe doesn't sound like one. You probably have atrial flutter, SVT, or atrial tachycardia. Unfortunately, the Kardia and other consumer devices can't identify these arrhythmias. Your EP is going to have to make the diagnosis.
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 13, 2024 04:03AM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 391 |
I have a Wellue, and it has consistently been able to diagnose my SVT, Bigeminy, etc. The Kardia never read it as anything other than Tachycardia. I agree with everyone else, but if you cannot find a Cardiologist or EP to talk with you and want to trouble shoot, consider looking at the Wellue. I just got the cheaper version and it has been fantastic. It is way more accurate than the Kardia. It has AI interpretation and seems very good, specifically for the not-so-straight forward rhythms.
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 13, 2024 04:24AM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 55 |
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MeganMN
I have a Wellue, and it has consistently been able to diagnose my SVT, Bigeminy, etc. The Kardia never read it as anything other than Tachycardia. I agree with everyone else, but if you cannot find a Cardiologist or EP to talk with you and want to trouble shoot, consider looking at the Wellue. I just got the cheaper version and it has been fantastic. It is way more accurate than the Kardia. It has AI interpretation and seems very good, specifically for the not-so-straight forward rhythms.
Never heard of it but will look into it.
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 13, 2024 04:29AM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 55 |
What was the cost of it?Quote
MeganMN
I have a Wellue, and it has consistently been able to diagnose my SVT, Bigeminy, etc. The Kardia never read it as anything other than Tachycardia. I agree with everyone else, but if you cannot find a Cardiologist or EP to talk with you and want to trouble shoot, consider looking at the Wellue. I just got the cheaper version and it has been fantastic. It is way more accurate than the Kardia. It has AI interpretation and seems very good, specifically for the not-so-straight forward rhythms.
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 13, 2024 04:50AM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 391 |
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 13, 2024 12:17PM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 4,497 |
Maybe Megan can point out which device she got. Here is a link to Wellue ECG's. [getwellue.com]
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 13, 2024 12:19PM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 4,497 |
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 13, 2024 01:17PM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 55 |
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GeorgeN
Maybe Megan can point out which device she got. Here is a link to Wellue ECG's. [getwellue.com]
Thank you
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 13, 2024 01:20PM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 55 |
I can not take beta blockers. When I do have one of these episodes (1-3 months), my heart rate is normal until they come on.Quote
GeorgeN
Another thought. Don't know if you have a rate control drug prescribed? That might be useful. Especially to only use when you have an episode, as infrequently as they occur. If the rate is controlled, it might materially help with your anxiety and other symptoms.
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 13, 2024 02:00PM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 55 |
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 13, 2024 03:52PM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 55 |
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 13, 2024 04:27PM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 391 |
No fees. Just buy the device, load the app on computer or phone, and have it interpret the rhythm. You get interpretations that look like this... It is excellent at interpreting SVT, Bigeminy, PACs, PVCs, Ectopic Rhythm, Afib,.etc.
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 13, 2024 05:49PM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 55 |
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 13, 2024 06:23PM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 391 |
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 13, 2024 06:29PM |
Registered: 1 year ago Posts: 55 |
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Re: panic or arrythmia? May 14, 2024 08:44AM |
Registered: 7 years ago Posts: 942 |
I think there's another interesting way to use a single lead handheld ekg monitor, being it a kardia or wellue: it's a method placing the positive electrode (left thumb or left leg) closer to the heart.
Instead of recording a lead1 (between hands) or lead2 (between right hand and left leg) tracing, one tries to get some sort of V3 or V4 tracing. One just needs to place the positive (left leg) electrode on one's left torso, under the breast.
Closer to the heart, the positive electrode can catch p waves more precisely.
Instead of recording a lead1 (between hands) or lead2 (between right hand and left leg) tracing, one tries to get some sort of V3 or V4 tracing. One just needs to place the positive (left leg) electrode on one's left torso, under the breast.
Closer to the heart, the positive electrode can catch p waves more precisely.
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