What does it mean? ( random, sudden increase in beats)

Hi,

I’m hoping someone might know what is happening.
Background: I am in the Uk and have written before about not coping very well with my paroxysmal A fib diagnosis since Sept after being out on a monitor in A&E. I’d suffered with ‘attacks’ for approx 10 years without diagnosis, but due to anxiety this year they became more frequent, I am currently on bisoprolol 2.25 mg for it. No anticoagulant, as I’m CHADS 0 ( I’m 56 and female with no underlying diseases). I am currently trying to wean off bisoprolol to at least 1.25 mg, slowly, in the hope I will feel better in myself as it is also affecting my quality of life. ( unable to breathe properly, tinnitus, twitches, frequent wakes during night). I tried weaning off bisop completely in November but as soon as out of my system, I went into Afib, so went back on it straight after.
I’m convinced my Afib is vagal, like many of you have. It used to happen after a meal in evening ( only some meals) , or when lying in bed. If it ever happened, it was on a Saturday night usually - between 8-9 ( though only some Saturday nights). I could go months and months without one. This year anxiety started being a trigger.
My resting HR and BP was ‘normal’ before bisop, so have I’ve also started magnesium taurate and B6 which I’m hoping will help snd looking at other supplements carefully in the hope I can beat this naturally. I have read lots of info from yourselves and the books that have been recommended, been a lot lower since being on it. On 2.25 mg bisop, at rest my HR is still around 55/56 and walking briskly for 20/30 mins ( outside) HR 116. Walking upstairs 74.I have an Apple watch with monitor and ECG.

The problem I have is: I walked into the kitchen earlier this morning and my HR went from 59 to 60 something then up to 126 bpm but the 126 bpm was only for 3/4 beats then it quickly went back to 59 bpm once I was seated again.I felt the sharp increase, which is why I looked immediately at my watch. I look back at my year’s worth of recordings and there have been very random ‘blips’ not many, ( 2 or 3 ocassions per month) where there’s either one or two beats above 125 when I’ve been in lower range. I attributed it to the watch, as I know that if loose, ( which it can be at times) or if I’m moving around a lot, this can happen. I’ve never felt any previous increases, apart from today.

Does anyone know what this is likely to mean? I tried ringing my hospital cardiac specialist nurse ( they have a helpline) but they rarely call back. I’ve been waiting for a few weeks for my cardiologist, who I’ve only seen once in October, to call me about being referred for an ablation as I feel this is the only way out for me, but I’m not sure what’s happening. It’s a 6 month waiting list and I know that I have a better chance with paroxysmal if I have an ablation sooner rather than later. I’m under the NHS so it is different here to the US. My GP isn’t that helpful on heart matters.

I have had a weekly ecg monitor and echocardiogram done. My heart is ‘normal’ apparently, no disease.

I just feel a bit lost. I still want to try and decrease the bisop as I know a lower dose will make me feel better but I’m now worried about these random blips. Could it just be anxiety? I’ve also started magnesium taurate and B6 which I’m hoping will help and looking at other supplements carefully in the hope I can beat this naturally. I have read lots of info from yourselves and the books that have been recommended.

Thankyou for your help,
Tweez



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2022 06:27AM by Tweez.

"The problem I have is: I walked into the kitchen earlier this morning and my HR went from 59 to 60 something then up to 126 bpm but the 126 bpm was only for 3/4 beats then it quickly went back to 59 bpm once I was seated again."

Could be a run of PAC's or PVC's.

I'm no specialist at all, just a "vagal" afibber. I may have afib at rest or after meal, so I know what you mean. I've ectopics too, now and then, in the same circumstances.

I'm surprised bisoprolol helps preventing your afib. It's just a betablocker. But why not? We're all different. For me, it did nothing against afib or ectopics. Just disabling side effects.

Are you continuously monitored? HR going suddenly from ~60 to 126 for just some beats then back to ~60 sounds to me like a short run of PACs. In this case, it's nothing to really worry about.

Just my 2 eurocents.

George answered faster than me.

Hi George and Pompon,

Thankyou so much for coming back. I don’t actually know what a PVC or PAC is, but I’ve heard the term…I will Google them, but glad it sounds like something not to worry about.
No, nobody is monitoring me. I have had a few blood tests this year since the summer, but as regards the effects of the beta blocker, or my heart rate, nothing since October when I saw my cardiologist. I had a weekly ECG prior to that but was on bisoprolol.
Bisoprolol does seem to control my Afib, though I hate how I feel. I think because it makes my HR and BP so low, it helps it in some way.

My blood tests are fairly normal apart from the fact I have a high mean cell haemoglobin level ( 34.1) the limit is 32.0 in the UK. I asked my GP about it and he told me not to worry, it means nothing…but it’s been steadily rising for the past 5 years. I think it’s my medication ( carbamazepine ) and it means I have macrytic anaemia …but my b12 levels are normal ( I’ve been taking high strength b12 since July as they were low) but my folate is 9.2. The range is 2.5 to 9999.99 in UK. He said I wasn’t low. My level was 20 in October so it has decreased in 3 months. I have bought folate tabs but scared to take them.
I feel a bit alone in it all to be honest. My GP Dr is no help and doesn’t really know how to help me and the hospital is a waiting game.

Thankyou both,
Tweez

Hi Pompon,
What do you take for your vagal Afib? How often do you have them?
Are you on blood thinners? ( I’m not) it’s another worry for me as I don’t really want to have them as the only one I can take is warfarin. My CHADS score is 0 currently.
I do worry about the future.

Tweez.

I think you're worrying more about these blips than is warranted. They're not going to do you any harm and asking what they mean isn't a very meaningful question. Focusing on them just amps up your anxiety level. You're taking a beta blocker that lowers your heart rate, so it's no surprise that every now and then your heart tries to speed up but runs into the beta blocker and falls back again. My advice is shrug them off and ignore them. There's nothing to be done about them, and the cardiologist isn't going to be able to tell you what they are without having you wear a monitor. You could buy a Kardia instead and get a recording of them and post it here. I'll be happy to take a look, but I predict it's going to be a boring recording that doesn't really tell you much.

Quote
Tweez
Hi Pompon,
What do you take for your vagal Afib? How often do you have them?
Are you on blood thinners? ( I’m not) it’s another worry for me as I don’t really want to have them as the only one I can take is warfarin. My CHADS score is 0 currently.
I do worry about the future.

Tweez.

Hi Tweez,
I don't take meds anymore. My CHADS Score is like yours, so far: 0.
My vagal afib is mostly cyclic: about 1 episode/week (on average - I have better and worst times), length 1hr or 2, self-ending without meds. Post-meal episodes are shorter: 30min. Whatever the food.
I may have lots of ectopics. They are harmless, I'm used to them, so I don't worry about them.

My advice: Don't wear a "connected" watch or things like this that continuously check your pulses. As Carey said, get a Kardia and record some tracings when you're feeling wrong. Other times, forget about those ectopics.
I know what it is, for it's a vicious circle difficult to break: you're "tuned" to your heart. It's stronger than you. Worryig about it increases your anxiety, which in turn increases your HR disorders.
Go out as often as you can, have quiet walks, drink water, take Mg supplements... Have a try with yoga, relaxation, meditation.
Good luck!

Hi Carey & Pompon,

Thankyou both….and for putting my mind at rest today. You are both right, I’m fixated on my Apple watch I look at it a lot…too much.
I will look into a Kardia , I’ve never heard of one.

If I get an afib attack, it can now go on for hours, unless I take a PIP. I was getting one every 3 weeks ( but only for 3 months) leading up to diagnosis in September. Before that I got an Afib attack probably once or twice a year. They usually lasted 8 -12 hours, which is why I am worried about having them without the bisop, but I do have Flecainide as a PIP.

Pompon - I’m glad your don’t last long and you do sound very relaxed about them…you are an inspiration
Carey, you made me smile when you said it would be a boring recording Thankyou for offering to look at my recording though

The trouble I have is I’m still learning all about Afib. Even though I have had this for 10 years on and off, I never really worried about them. If only I could go back to those days.

Funnily enough I’m going to Yoga for the first time tomorrow

Thankyou both,

Tweez

Re: magnesium….
Please can I just ask….as I am a bit confused.
I have started taking magnesium taurate. I’m taking 2 a day of what they regard as a ‘high potency’, maximum dose, but the bottle says that two pills = magnesium taurate 1500 mg, of which is providing 112mg of magnesium.

So by taking two tablets per day, I am only taking 112mg magnesium, the rest is taurate.
I did check this out with the company too.

Do any of you take more than this as I read on line that 320 mg is daily limit for women., but the taurate/magnesium ratio is confusing me. I am a pescatarian, but I do eat some foods rich in magnesium , but probably not getting the recommended dose per day in food alone.

I also started taking vitamin B6.
Thankyou,

Tweez

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Tweez
Do any of you take more than this as I read on line that 320 mg is daily limit for women.,

I'm an outlier, I have an extremely high bowel tolerance to magnesium. I currently take between 3-4 g (3000-4000 mg)/day of magnesium (magnesium weight, not the weight of the compound). Assuming your kidney function is healthy, what I suggest is slowly increasing the amount you take till you notice your stools getting a bit softer or watery. Then back down a wee bit. If you have a healthy kidney function, your kidneys will excrete the excess. In my case, I'm dumping a lot out of my kidneys as the total body store of magnesium (including bones) is around 30 g or 10 or less days of what I take in. While mine tolerance is really high, I know plenty of friends & other people (including women) in the 2g/day range.

Hi George,

Thanks as always. Looks like I can increase it quite a lot then….I will do slowly as you suggest. Is it ok that my magnesium is also already ‘mixed’ in with the taurate though? So I’m effect I would be increasing he taurate as well as the magnesium?

I have some magnesium glyconate too, but not taking that as I’m taking the magnesium taurate ( which I thought might be better for my case. Yes, my kidneys are fine.

Thankyou,

Tweez

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Tweez
Is it ok that my magnesium is also already ‘mixed’ in with the taurate though? So I’m effect I would be increasing he taurate as well as the magnesium?

I have some magnesium glyconate too, but not taking that as I’m taking the magnesium taurate ( which I thought might be better for my case. Yes, my kidneys are fine.

I take taurine separately, about 2g/day from taurine powder. There is no reason why you can't mix other forms in. I currently take 3 different forms and have taken just about every form there is, including several liquid forms that I create myself. For my body, the form doesn't really matter, I just need to take mag & in sufficient quantity.

Thankyou George,

I can’t seem to find magnesium in it’s own here, they seem to come with another form of something. If it’s ok with the taurate added to it, I’ll increase the pills as you suggest
Thankyou,
Tweez

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Tweez
I can’t seem to find magnesium in it’s own here, they seem to come with another form of something. If it’s ok with the taurate added to it, I’ll increase the pills as you suggest

Magnesium is going to be combined with something to make a compound: oxide, chloride, citrate, glycinate, malate, bicarbonate, taurate, acetate & so on. The oxide form is generally considered the least bioavailable (and also the cheapest). I've used them all, including oxide and all have been effective for me, taken is sufficient quantity (for me).

So take what you like, don't be afraid to combine and experiment and see what works best for you.

George is a phenomenon. Being able to swallow 2-3g of Mg element a day is largely beyond what most people can tolerate. More than 1g/day makes me run to the toilet, and I'm easily constipated...
But he's right about the way to experiment with Mg and to find the right dose. That's how I did. 1g/day is my max. Which means some 10 caps of Mg bisglycinate. Largely above the"recommended" 3 caps/day printed on the bottle...

As I’ve indicated to you previously in my PM, you can take magnesium to bowel tolerance. So take it until bowel movement is loose then step it back until bowel movement is normal. IHerb has heaps of magnesium which you can order on line . My son in England says Healthspan in the UK is good with free delivery as a bonus.