Right-side Sleeping Awareness

Hello to all...

The practice/habit of sleeping on the right side only… as described in PC, MD’s report in Conference Room Session #36 (2005) and reading the many posts he offered on the topic, definitely helped me maintain a calm heart after my first Natale ablation in 2003. (and just for the record, that ablation lasted for 11 years and then I developed A-flutter…managed with a Natale flutter ablation in 2014 which also isolated the Left Atrial Appendage, and followed by a touchup 7 mos. later in 2015. Thanks, to Dr. Natale, my heart has remained calm since.

However, I wanted to bring up an occurrence which may have origins in the ‘habit’ of right-side sleeping.

While I do not intend to risk changing sides, I want to share what I presume to be a side effect of at least 16+ years of right-side sleeping …coupled with the age factor. I’m now 85 years old and in basically good health except for this problem that may have been caused by the right-side only sleeping for so many years.

Since early last year, I’ve had periodic bouts of what I’ll call a syndrome. Initially, it started in the evening if I’ve been sitting and watching TV, reading or knitting and I believe it has to do with cervical posture… and, it can also can happen during sleep and I awaken with the same type symptoms…. which are… loud ringing and/or buzzing noise in my head; flashing lights at the corner of one eye; often, I actually hear the very loud pulse sound or beating of my heart. I can change it by changing position. If I adjust positions slowly but immediately, I can almost always avoid syncope. However, one time, early morning around 6 am while I was still asleep, I awoke just enough to heed the signal I needed to urinate… but apparently, I moved the wrong way, too quickly… and my next ‘awareness’ was that I was face down, collapsed on the carpeted floor, legs crumpled under and I had no recollection as to how I got there. A foot bone, third metatarsal, was slightly fractured since I collapsed on it but, fortunately, no other injury. (When this all began, I consulted with my local EP who had me wear a Zio patch for two weeks to rule out heart involvement… all was good except for a couple isolated ‘blips’ )

The collapse began a series of consults with a neurologist and second opinion, MRI’s and MRA, CT, Physical Therapy consult and eval sessions, ruling out the ear-crystal causative potential, and then with no improvement, a repeat consult with my orthopaedic doctor for a focus on the cervical vertebrae which led to a second PT therapist who is more ‘attuned’ to symptoms related to cervical spine, TMJ and aging PLUS… the habit of sleeping in, basically, the same position for all these years.

It will be a long and slow process because this PT has found the discrepancy between right and left shoulder relationship to cervical vertebrae which are displaced in the area of the Atlas and first cervical and that can elicit the ‘syndrome’ symptoms. She demonstrated by manipulation, just how that happens.

So… The reason for my post is to alert “right-side sleepers” to try do specific exercises to help balance out muscle tone in the neck and upper shoulder/back area so you don’t risk having this really annoying nerve issue. I’ve been working out at our local fitness center for almost 20 years and now I have some additional, targeted weight exercises to add to my routine. My career as a dental hygienist probably contributed to the larger muscle development on the left side … working with that arm up and around the patient’s head.. and the unrelenting tension in the hand/grip.

In the long run, I’m so thankful that PC’s right-side sleeping tip helped keep my heart calm for so many years, and I hope for all of you who live into their 80’s and longer…that you do so with this ‘awareness’ caveat.

Good health and longevity to all,

Jackie



Reference: [www.afibbers.org]

Wow! That is really interesting, Jackie! Thank you for sharing this. I had quite a while ago discovered on my own that my heart felt a lot more stable and a lot less crushed/pressurized if I slept on right side. Or rather, that everything felt normal if I slept on right side, but things got tricky and feel very iffy sometimes if I would roll onto left side. So I just started accepting that and stuck to right side. I will look into some balancing exercises now to try to even out muscles. Because I can see how sleeping always on same side would lead to uneven alignments.

Jackie

Strangely enough, I've had an interesting experience with sleeping posture as well. I was a back sleeper for most of my life until AF 20 plus years ago, and so for many years I slept on my right side as I read it was better for my heart. And initially, it was. Then I found increasingly that my heart kicked into AF during the night so I changed back to the left side. It was a 50/50 result so in the last couple of years I have slept on my back again. Because of my poor sleeping and my waking up during the night, I sometimes roll to my right side (habit?) but I find it very uncomfortable.
I had a couple of sleep tests in the hospital, first one I went into rapid AF and they admitted me to the Cardiac Ward, much against my wishes, the second one I think I slept for an hour and a half. So no results.
Not sure where I go from here, sitting up being the one last resort, or I guess I could try standing up as well
Hope yours resolves soon. Keep us posted.

Interesting thread!
It seems common among us experiencing differences in HR (dis)comfort while laying on the left or right side.
Coincidentally, yesterday I decided sticking electrodes on my torso to record some tracings in my ECG device. I do this from time to time and print some tracings to show to my cardiologist and EP, since the disorders nearly never show up while being close to their pro grade 12-lead devices.
I've had ectopics yesterday after meals, which is usual, followed by a good night of sleep, all the time laying on my right side. I got some recordings each time I woke up, and they were fine. Around six, I took a last one laying on my right side (still fine), then another one laying on my back (some PACs), finishing on my left side (more PACs, mostly bi and tri geminal pattern).
I never thought this could be related to neck or shoulders positioning! It's not obvious in my case, but who knows?

Semi-related

A long time ago a friend of mine was in a movie theater and stood up to go to the restroom. Their foot had fallen asleep while in the theater and when they stood, it collapsed and twisted and shattered many bones from the knee down. It took years of surgery and treatment to get back to health. (this was a man in his mid 30s!)

Ever since then, without fail, last night included, when I have a nature call in the middle of the night, I sit on the edge of the bed briefly and wake up both my feel and ankles to ensure they are working properly. And weird as it sounds have to think about my friend while doing it. I actually hadn't seen or contacted him in 30+ years but tracked him down in the last year to tell him this strange story of how I think about him practically every day of my life.

Semi related to NLAMA:

I can’t count how many af I got upon getting out of bed quickly. Now I prop myself up slowly and sit on the edge of the bed for 5-10 seconds before standing. Knock on wood no more af from abrupt laying to jumping out of bed.

In my opinion all of this points to low blood volume almost like hypovolemia caused by an electrolyte imbalance. I have seen many of my overweight friends going on quick fix diets and suddenly end up complaining of fainting or palpitations, especially with any sudden movements, laying on the left or even bending over would provoke ectopics. In most people this is going to be the case and it has nothing to do with heart, especially if they are on some sort of a diet restricting calories which promotes loss of electrolytes. An easy fix is to increase sodium intake with plenty of water and taking electrolyte mix which contains potassium. I don't know why sodium gets so much bad press but without it potassium will never stick around to do its job, and guess what? No matter how much magnesium you add it won't change a thing, because magnesium is useless without potassium. Any low carb diet or keto adaptation requires higher sodium intake, the reason is that when insulin levels drop, the rate at which sodium is excreted through the kidneys increases significantly and everything else follows.

I think I commented on this before but adding higher sodium back into my diet with increased potassium resolved within a day any funny skips or movement provoked arrhythmia.
Now if your diet is regular and you consume enough sodium to hold the other electrolytes in its place then the fix is even easier; drink more water.


Here's a few options of electrolyte mixes with stevia sweeteners, and yes they all taste like ass unless you chill the water prior to mixing.

[www.amazon.com]


[www.amazon.com]

My case is definitely related to the cervical spine area and slight disc degeneration. The orthopaedic specialist demonstrated with a skeletal model of that area where the nerve is encased in the bone channel and the disc is right there as well. It's apparently not uncommon with diminished disc size for pressure from bone on that nerve to cause the sensations I experience. And with the imbalance of muscle size/dominance along with head/neck posture, these events occur. The challenge will be to build up right side muscle to offset the bone/nerve impingement. That takes time....and the exercises can bring on the 'events' so it's not motivating to keep doing it on a regular basis. Catch 22.

My electrolytes have been stable and I've been supplementing for over 20 years guided by regular lab testing to ensure I'm in the desired range. I do take potassium and sodium along with magnesium....and many more nutrients as directed by my FM MD. I also drink plenty of water and always have. I live in a rural community and have well-water.

Additionally, insuring stability before getting out of bed has also been a practice I've followed at least for 15 years if not longer. In the instance I mentioned, apparently, I was pausing and sitting on the edge of the bed but hadn't yet stood up when I blacked out. I had something similar recently happen... while I was still in bed, but just starting to rise up on elbows when I blacked out for just a few seconds...loud sounds and all... I waited about 15 minutes... and I went through the process and got out of bed. Yesterday, I was doing minor yard work... cleaning up twigs and branches after another wind storm blew through. I learned quickly what positions would allow me to bend over without revving up the prodromal buzzing in my head.

This is just going to take time, patience and diligence.

Thanks for your comments.
Jackie

Greetings,
I sleep primarily on my back with shorter periodic periods on my right side. I need a small pillow on my right side to prop up my left arm to prevent stress on my neck and left shoulder.
Resting on the left side for 11 - 20 minutes after lunch helps digestion and possibly balances the right side sleeping at night.
Rattana :+)

Per the original post, I can't ever get to sleep on either side (though when I was in my too much calcium phase, the left side would trigger ectopics or afib), so start out face down and end up on my back. Always tape my mouth so I breathe through my nose. It is very common for me to otherwise breathe through my mouth if on my back. I previously posted what happens to my heart rate when not taped.

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NotLyingAboutMyAfib
A long time ago a friend of mine was in a movie theater and stood up to go to the restroom. Their foot had fallen asleep while in the theater and when they stood, it collapsed and twisted and shattered many bones from the knee down. It took years of surgery and treatment to get back to health. (this was a man in his mid 30s!)

Have a friend whose foot did the same thing during a Zoom meeting last June. She stood up on it and significantly broke it, though not as bad as your friend. She'd previously started using the KAATSU BFR setup due to me. None exercise cycles materially accelerated the bone fill in & healing faster than the doc's projection.

I followed George's postings on taping mouth closed at night and have now been doing it for about 6 weeks. It has made my sleep better and, according to my wife, much quieter plus sheets that no get pulled out or otherwise messed up during the night.

I use the medical tape available at any pharmacy and my wife tried it but her skin is too sensitive and she ended up with sores so she had to quit. We both wish she could still use it, too.

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ggheld
I use the medical tape available at any pharmacy and my wife tried it but her skin is too sensitive and she ended up with sores so she had to quit. We both wish she could still use it, too.

Gorden, here are some alternatives for your wife.

Myotape. This is the description. (ordering here ships from Ireland) and you can order in the US here.. I've used the snoreless tape, shown on the ordering page, for years. Both are supposed to be hypoallergenic. This is another option.

I know James Nestor, author of Breath uses just a small vertical strip of tape in the middle of the mouth. Using the snoreless tape, I cover my whole mouth. The Myotape actually goes around the mouth and uses slight elasticity to encourage keeping the mouth closed. It is also a good option for those who might be afraid of having their mouth closed.

Funny the sides in this fickle malady.
Before my suc. ablation in 2018 the right side was my safe side with my left being 50% of the time i woke up there....i was in ARR.
Now my left side is totally calm and my right side i get short bursts of pacs and flutter for a few seconds to a min. or so when first get into bed.

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vanlith
Funny the sides in this fickle malady.
Before my suc. ablation in 2018 the right side was my safe side with my left being 50% of the time i woke up there....i was in ARR.
Now my left side is totally calm and my right side i get short bursts of pacs and flutter for a few seconds to a min. or so when first get into bed.

This might be another sign of the evolutive tendancy of those troubles.
Each time I find something that appears to work at keeping afib at bay, it does not last long. One month at best. Being it a med, a diet, a supplement, a way of life...
The more I try to understand, the more I'm lost.

Jackie
That's a very interesting post. I need to consider it and try to balance my sleeping on the right side with the left side. Since 2005 when AF appeared I was not able to sleep on the left side. Left sude= AF trigger or abundance of ectopic beats . After this last ablation on 14 December 2020, I try to lie on the left side halfway. This is because I have noticed that often I have a pain on my right side, shoulder blade and ribs ,down to my waist. I suppose my right lets me it's overused. I will focus now on balancing left and right sleeping. Aldona.

Hello Aldona - Good to see you posting!

Just keep in mind that the focus of my post is to 'alert' about potentials for those of us who are older.
It's still very relevant to consider which side we sleep on can impact the 'calmness' of our hearts as described in that report by Dr. Chambers. .

But, it's also very important to consider ... just as I have pointed out here.. .that in our senior-most years, muscle tone,
strength and function can become somewhat impaired and that can have a 'downstream' impact on factors like
spinal alignment... and, especially, in my case... i.e., cervical spine complications from disc degeneration.

These bouts of vertigo have served to alert me regularly so now I am in the process with the Physical Therapy to build up and balance the muscles involved. After three treatments, I am much more aware of posture habits etc and am noticing what influences the weakness or brings on vertigo.

Sleeping posture is just one factor... but since we typically spend quite a number of hours daily doing that, it makes sense to be aware.

Best to you,
Jackie

Thank you, Jackie.
I will keep in mind all your interesting points. I am currently in process of balancing my side sleeping. I am also trying to sleep on one side standard latex pillow. After my 3 ablations, I had to sleep with the raised upper body, two high pillows. if not my heart did not feel comfortable. I want to go back to my sleeping flat. They best position for me and my spine.

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aldona
Thank you, Jackie.
I will keep in mind all your interesting points. I am currently in process of balancing my side sleeping. I am also trying to sleep on one side standard latex pillow. After my 3 ablations, I had to sleep with the raised upper body, two high pillows. if not my heart did not feel comfortable. I want to go back to my sleeping flat. They best position for me and my spine.

Aldona maybe you should look into trying a new mattress or mattress topper where your body just form fits into.....to help get you relief from some of those pains you mentioned when lying in dif. positions in bed.
I have read glowing reviews on amazon ect. about some really good gel memory foam mattress toppers that elim. the stuff you get so to allow you to sleep in any position pretty much pain free + we all know how important sleep position is in Afib so just because YOUR current bed is not treating you right does not mean others will not give you near total relief....lots of fish in the sea.

GL

Jackie, you aren’t alone. Ever since my ablation I noticed that sleeping on my left side always made my heart a bit jumpy. Some nights were worse than others but I discovered that if I elevated by hard and back a bit instead of laying flat on my side, it seemed to improve the results. Since my surgeries I can never lay flat or my heart gives me a fit. Not sure why? Strange how our bodies change as we age....