PVCs while running?

I know, that would be bad. But lately I have felt something almost like a depth-charge go off in my chest while I’m out doing my daily run (usually about 5 miles or so). It’s only ever like 1 or 2. I suppose another explanation could be a PAC coupled with the increased blood flow and extended refractoriness in the beat immediately following that just has greater inotropy, or force.

I suppose the only was to tell would be an event monitor. There’s just no way the Kardia is going to work. Can’t hold the thing for an hour while running and also looking at a cell phone. What are the chances an event monitor would hold up to sweat drenched skin and clothes? Any other ideas?

Hi wolf,

I can "see" PVC's in a heart rate vs. time graph if R to R times are captured every beat. Over the years, there have been a few Polar watches that will do the beat to beat recording. You don't see the PVC's in real time. you have to download and look at the data after. What you'd want to know is the time you felt what you are feeling, then you'd know where to look.

Today, I use an app, Heart Rate Variability Logger, (I think it was $5 or so, last I looked) it works on IOS & Android with a Polar H10 strap. It transfers files through Dropbox to Computer. There is old Polar software I use as I love the way it easily windows the data. I take one of their .hrm files (ASCII) and drop in the RR times in ms from the app files. (easy & I can provide a "bare" file). Then pull it up in the software to view it. Examples of PVC's are shown on p 17 and further on in this PDF [www.afibbers.org] As in your case, caring about a timestamp on the data, you can put a beginning time and date in the .hrm file, and can see this in a .csv that the app provides. Hence you can get the exact time a beat happens.

What happens is the strap doesn't "see" the malformed QRS waveform of a PVC. The next beat is then reported as taking twice as long, so it plots as a half speed beat. I ran an ECG in parallel with the strap and proved it ~16 years ago.

If you want to pursue, I can provide explicit details and I'm pretty sure I have an install for the software I can email as they don't support it anymore (it does work under Win 10 running on VirtualBox on my Mac.

I use this for recording overnight and so on.

Obviously, this does not provide a full ECG, so if you want that, you'd need a holter or event recorder.

George



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2021 09:02PM by GeorgeN.

I have these, usually at the start of a run, had them also during my stress test, but no mention of them being bad??😩😩

Occasional PVCs and/or PACs are perfectly normal. There's nothing "bad" about them until they become excessive.

I wonder if just two leads from an old 6 or 12 lead harness with the sticky electrodes would work with the Kardia. Just cut two of them off, keeping the electrode ends, and stripping the wires down. Then affix the exposed wires to the Kardia leads.

Worth a try, maybe, if I can find a cheap set of wires and pads on eBay.

Just ordered some sticky pads, TENS wires (guessing the snaps are the same size as the ECG pads but much cheaper) and a forearm phone holder. $40 all together.

If it works I’ll post details on how to turn a Kardia 6L into a far more ambulatory device.

I'm betting you run into technical roadblocks but I think it's cool you're going to try this.

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Juggsy75
I have these, usually at the start of a run, had them also during my stress test, but no mention of them being bad??😩😩

Same for me if I forget to start quietly. Mostly PACs, but some PVCs too.
I had PVCs during my last stress test too, but I was around 130 BPM. My cardiologist said it wasn't anything to worry about (at 62).

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wolfpack
Just ordered some sticky pads, TENS wires (guessing the snaps are the same size as the ECG pads but much cheaper) and a forearm phone holder. $40 all together.

If it works I’ll post details on how to turn a Kardia 6L into a far more ambulatory device.

My own device allows for the use of lead wires. I've tried sticky electrodes to use while exercising, but I had to stop while recording. Body motion ruins the tracings.

I anticipate technical issues. First step will be to see if I can get a “hands-free” trace in the most benign conditions (indoors, not moving). Then take it from there and figure out the limits.

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wolfpack
I anticipate technical issues. First step will be to see if I can get a “hands-free” trace in the most benign conditions (indoors, not moving). Then take it from there and figure out the limits.

Hope you can solve them! What are the recording time limits on the 6L? I think on my single lead it is 5 minutes, though I never go more than 30 seconds.

If you don't solve the issues and care enough, you can get a Chinese 3 lead Contec Holter on eBay for $300 or 12 lead for a little more (I have a wrist format Contec pulse ox with finger cuff that works well enough). I borrowed a Holter from one of the guys that was a member here in the early days for a while (back when they were ~$5K/copy). Decided I got enough info from my Polar (and in the last 6 or 7 years from my Kardia) for less hassle and much quicker interpretation so never bothered. My recollection is that it was a good idea to wear a tight fitting t-shirt over the leads to reduce artefact when moving/exercising.

This would work—48 hour continuous 12 lead ekg holter and software for a little over $400.
[contechealth.com]

[www.amazon.com]
Cheaper at $298 but some can’t download the software...thus 3 stars.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2021 10:59PM by susan.d.

Still waiting for one more part to arrive, but I did get the sticky pads and TENS wires. I can confirm the TENS wires will clip to the sticky pads. I wasn't really worried they wouldn't but it's always nice to get physical confirmation.

How long of a strip are you trying to achieve? Kardia has a short record time.

AfibAlert has the optional two bracelet band electrodes. Looks like a watch band. Maybe that would work.

OK so the TENS wires and pads work flawlessly. Basically I put two pads on the Kardia 6L "front side" leads, two pads on me roughly shoulder-area, snapped the leads on and connected the two sets of TENS wires using a female/female 3.5mm jack adapter. So all plug-and-play. I got a perfect EKG while sitting. No additional noise at all.

However, when walking things go wrong quickly. The electrical baseline in the EKG wanders all over the place. Once I stop moving, it quickly returns to normal. I tried a treadmill with disastrous effect. The electrical noise from a treadmill motor completely nukes the Kardia. Forget that. Then I tried a recumbent bike that is only DC battery powered. That didn't destroy the Kardia but still presented the same effect as walking, which was very noisy baseline. You can only make out QRS complexes and nothing else.

Then I let it record a 5-minute (max) EKG while I periodically walked around the house and then stopped walking to let the noise filter out. I started and stopped walking a few times. When the recording finished, I got a surprise from the Kardia APP. It told me I had "normal sinus rhythm with wide QRS complexes". Yikes! Obviously that's not a real finding for me but shows how a noisy EKG confuses the software.

So my conclusion is this - it can probably be used in a physical environment such as jogging or cycling, but you won't capture any arrythmia "on the fly". You'd have to pause the activity once you felt something, open the app, and start the recording hoping that whatever it was happens again while you're not moving. So a bit of a gamble there. And you'd be assuming, if you did manage to capture an ectopic beat or two, that it was the same arrhythmia that caused you to stop and take the recording. Probably a good assumption but an assumption nonetheless.

I'll post some pics if I can figure out how. And, yes, it hurt when I ripped the pads off. I envy you ladies!

And you do need to carefully clean the Kardia leads after you take the pads off of it. There's sticky goo left over. So take care doing that, if you choose, so as not to get any liquid intrusion into the Kardia 6L. They're expensive.