Vaccines

I'm sure I missed this in the forum......I'm scheduled for my first Mederma covid vaccine Wednesday. I actually had Covid over Christmas and lived!! As an afibber how do you all feel taking the vaccine?? Is this an increased risk of danger for us? Do you feel it is the right thing to do? Opinions appreciated
Tim

Afib is irrelevant to the vaccine. So is having had COVID previously. Go to your appointment without concern.

Thank You Carey

If you had Covid you'd have antibodies to many more proteins of the SARS-CoV-2 virus than what you'd get from any vaccine.
Getting the vaccine would most likely not hurt (if you are good with all the other parts contained in the vaccine), may or may not improve your immunity.
Just my 2 cents

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Joe
If you had Covid you'd have antibodies to many more proteins of the SARS-CoV-2 virus than what you'd get from any vaccine.
Getting the vaccine would most likely not hurt (if you are good with all the other parts contained in the vaccine), may or may not improve your immunity.
Just my 2 cents

I'm sorry, Joe, but I think that's overstated, at best. Actually having COVID doesn't necessarily protect you from future infections, as proved by the many people who've had the disease twice. There's no evidence that having the disease makes you immune to future infections and pretty good evidence it doesn't.

As for COVID producing antibodies to more proteins than the vaccine, whether that's true or not, it's misleading. We all have antibodies to the coronavirus family because we've been around it all our lives. Coronavirus has always been a cause of the common cold (about 5% of all colds), so we've all got plenty of antibodies to almost all the proteins SARS-CoV-2 makes. But the protein that counts is the unique one that allows SARS-CoV-2 to attach to ACE2 receptors, and that's the protein the vaccines target.

So the current recommendation is that even those who've had COVID should get the vaccine. It cannot hurt you to have COVID and then get the vaccine, or get the vaccine more than once (or twice), or have more than one type of vaccine. The only contraindications are a known allergy to the vaccine or its ingredients.

The bottom line is that over 160 million vaccines have been given worldwide, which is kind of the biggest clinical trial in history. The only problems found so far are minor side effects that are trivial, and serious allergic reactions that are extremely rare and typical for any vaccine.

There have been no deaths confirmed to be attributed to the vaccine, which is remarkable for a 160-million person trial.

Folks, there are no surprises left. The vaccines are safe and effective.

No problem, your understanding is probably better than mine.

As far as i'm aware there are 31 reported documented cases of re-infection but no doubt there are more undocumented ones.

Don't know if it is known how many binding domains of spike proteins our body makes various (along Th1 and Th2 pathways etc.) antibodies against when a wild infection occurs?
It is known (but i don't know it) how many of the spike proteins binding domains are put into the vaccines.

Guessing a re-infection can occur when one has a compromised immune system subsequent to a wild infection or even a vaccination? And/or if the virus's spike domain has mutated to the extent that previously effective antibodies don't recognize the new variant?

Following this path of 'reasoning' a new vaccine with ability to address the new/recently mutated spike protein(s) would indeed be good.

Carey said:

There have been no deaths confirmed to be attributed to the vaccine, which is remarkable for a 160-million person trial.

Folks, there are no surprises left. The vaccines are safe and effective.

i have read that there are cases of deaths after getting the vaccine but nothing is being said about them by the CDC, and as far as the whole world we don't know about the whole world if it being kept quiet.

There were 20 or so in Norway for a start. Of course it is spun that the recipients had problems to start with and the 'side effects' pushed them over the edge. If they caught SARS-CoV-2 then of course they would have died because they caught the virus

However, the risk of having a serious or even deadly SARS-CoV-2 infection is infinitely greater than having problems after a vaccination (provided one is careful and takes ones underlying problems into consideration).
Suppose people get anxious when there is not full disclosure or spin?

Repeat: There have been no deaths attributed to the vaccine and that includes Norway.

It's not in the least bit surprising that if you start a vaccine campaign by vaccinating millions of the oldest, frailest, and sickest, you're going to get some deaths following the vaccine and that's going to happen even if you give them nothing at all.

Nobody's hiding or spinning anything. Why reach for conspiracy theories when the facts are right in front of our eyes? We're injecting millions of people and those people are dying at a lower rate than the unvaccinated. How does anyone spin a conspiracy theory out of that data?

There are probably some bad effects from the vaccine, but are just not known, I have read of a few deaths after getting the vaccine but whether it was due to something else is not told. This doctor in Florida is a puzzle:

Health authorities are investigating the case of a Florida doctor who died from an unusually severe blood disorder 16 days after receiving the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine.

Dr. Gregory Michael, a 56-year-old obstetrician and gynecologist in Miami Beach, received the vaccine at Mount Sinai Medical Center on Dec. 18 and died 16 days later from a brain hemorrhage, his wife, Heidi Neckelmann, wrote in a Facebook post.

Shortly after receiving the vaccine, Dr. Michael developed an extremely serious form of a condition known as acute immune thrombocytopenia, which prevented his blood from clotting properly.

Liz-you are picking out a few people who died out of millions who will benefit from the vaccine who are already vaccinated, I speculate if not vaccinated and contracted covid19 and in the icu—the number of prevention deaths are higher than those who died after a vaccine. IMHO.

Trust me, I’m not trilled on getting my upcoming second moderna vaccine this weekend because I had a reaction after the first. The health department Rn said a metallic taste in one’s mouth is a reaction. I had this feeling similar to after drinking a scolding hot drink sensation immediately on my tongue then it spread to my lips and roof of mouth. An hour later to my throat. I still am going through with the second because I am a frequent Er patient and want protection. I just hope no over zealous dr jabs me with an epi pen and triggers af or flutter. I just returned home from the Er today in the middle of the night from flutter and have ecv burns already. But I’m taking the risk.

Today marks 11 months I’ve been self isolated at home. I want to get out other than to a hospital or dr. If it means being vaccinated, that’s the price of admission to have a semi pre covid19 life and actually go to a market for food or shop in person.

Susan:

Sorry, but Carey said NO ONE has died from the vaccine and that includes Norway/whole world, now I think that is a statement that may not be true, he cannot prove that. I have always sought the truth, bad or good.

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Elizabeth
Sorry, but Carey said NO ONE has died from the vaccine and that includes Norway/whole world, now I think that is a statement that may not be true, he cannot prove that. I have always sought the truth, bad or good.

Any deaths attributed to the vaccine would show up in CDC adverse events reports, and none have been reported.

The supposed deaths you've read about are people who died of something in the days or weeks following the vaccine, but so far not one of them can be tied to the vaccine itself. Some of those deaths in Norway that have been reported by shady sources as having been caused by the vaccine happened weeks after they received the vaccine and there was no evidence whatsoever they had anything to do with it. They are old, they are sick, and having such people die isn't a surprise.

The Florida doctor is a mystery, but again there's no evidence his illness had anything to do with the vaccine. When you administer millions of doses of anything, you're going to get a lot of coincidental deaths.

Susan:

I have a couple of neighbors that got the vaccine and they are fine, there are a few more that havn't gotten the vaccine and they are ok as well.

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Elizabeth
Susan:

I have a couple of neighbors that got the vaccine and they are fine, there are a few more that havn't gotten the vaccine and they are ok as well.

The pandemic will be around and with all the new strains unless your neighbors lives isolated in a cave, there is a possibility in the future they maybe exposed. You are not young. You should consider protecting yourself Ike your neighbors who got vaccinated and are fine.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2021 06:36PM by susan.d.

Susan:

I am a believer in my Holistic doctors protocol, i try to keep my immune system in good condition. I take vit. C, D, Zinc and vit. A. Also, I try to eat a good diet, I have lots of veggies in my freezer from my garden, make soups etc. In case of getting the virus, dr. B. has a protocol which i have posted about in the Health section. I live out in the country and a lot of my neighbors go outside a lot as I do as well, they are pretty hardy.

liz-
if it is of any comfort, the following two sites are of interest and mentions there has been no recorded direct vaccine related deaths.
[www.publichealth.lacounty.gov]

[www.cdc.gov]
very interesting info here. If you are 16 and up, you can get a Pfizer vaccine but you must be >18 to get Moderna.

I did talk to a public health nurse who told me there are more side effects from the second vaccine. The idea that you have to wait an additional week to get your second Moderna vaccine and the fact that the Moderna vaccine contains more cc of volume would suggest to me IMHO that Moderna is potent and stronger [but less overall effective against covid]. After the first Moderna vaccine one is protected 86.4% while after the first Pfizer jab I believe the numbers is in the low 50s.

I wasn't looking for comfort, just facts----i don't intend to get the vaccine, which isn't a vaccine it is a mRNA gene therapy. I have read about the process about which this mRNA does its work. It is about your immune system, which I have said that is why I take the supplements that i do plus I forgot to add i take Magnesium all of which is to help my immune system.

good luck to everybody

Do as you wish, but the vaccine does not alter your genetic makeup. It is not gene therapy.

10 months later my antibodies are gone......time for the vaccine!


McHale

. COVID-19 vaccination works by teaching your immune system how to recognize and fight the virus that causes COVID-19, and this protects you from getting sick

Doesn't sound like the vaccine gives you antibodies, operates a little differently.

[www.cdc.gov]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2021 02:47PM by Elizabeth.

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Elizabeth
Doesn't sound like the vaccine gives you antibodies, operates a little differently.

Yes, the way an mRNA vaccine works is a bit different from older vaccines, but the end result is the same.

There is no vaccine that provides you with antibodies. They all cause your body to make the antibodies itself. Most vaccines do this because they contain either dead viruses or live but weakened viruses. You body sees these viruses, knows they're foreign, and so it makes antibodies against them.

With the mRNA vaccines, there are no viruses in the vaccine, not even pieces of the virus. Instead, mRNA vaccines contain the mRNA instructions for making a protein found in the virus. Our immune cells take up this mRNA, use it to produce that protein, and then promptly destroy the mRNA. Once your cells begin producing this new protein, your body recognizes it as foreign and starts making antibodies to it.

After the vaccine is completely metabolized, there is no trace of the RNA in your body. The RNA is destroyed quickly and flushed out, your cells stop making the protein, and your DNA remains completely unchanged.

So, basically, all vaccines work in the same fundamental way: they cause your body to produce antibodies against the invader. The only difference is how they go about provoking your body to do that. Older vaccines do it by injecting actual viral material into you, and RNA vaccines do it by fooling your body into temporarily producing one or more of the same proteins found in the virus. Either way, your body sees the foreign protein and begins making antibodies to it.

Car,ey:

Thanks. Why didn't they use the dead viruses in the vaccine, is the mRNA a better way, it does sounds like it.

There are some traditional dead virus vaccines on the market. Not sure if they are available in the US?
If you have any concerns for whatever reason then perhaps Novavax is an option. No mRNA, no adenovirus, nothing grown in aborted human cells, nothing grown in monkey kidney cells....

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Elizabeth
Thanks. Why didn't they use the dead viruses in the vaccine, is the mRNA a better way, it does sounds like it.

Time and safety.

Going with a killed/weakened virus vaccine probably would have taken years because it's complicated finding just the right mix of killed/weakened virus that's actually effective (and sometimes none of them are), and it also has to have super rigorous safety testing because it involves a real virus (they learned that lesson with polio). So to have any hope of developing a Covid vaccine within months, they had to use the mRNA approach because it doesn't use real viruses and therefore testing could be shortened without great risk. Also, the mRNA technology isn't actually new. It's been in development for years and it had just reached the stage where companies were beginning to develop real vaccines using it, so they already had tons of data and know-how. Covid just happened to come along at the right point in time. Had it come along 5 years ago I doubt we'd have a vaccine at this point.

Isn't Sinovac a killed/weakened virus vaccine? It's efficacy (nobody talks about NNT) is much lower than the mRNA vaccines but not that far behind AZ vaccine (depending where one looks) However, it seems to work better against the S.African virus. AZ is pretty woeful against that strain.
Anyhow, killed/weakened virus vaccines aren't without potential problems. Nothing is 100%safe but are a hell of a lot safer than COVID if one is in the wrong age/health problems bracket.

What type of vaccine was the H1N1 vaccine used in Scandinavia a few years ago?

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Joe
Isn't Sinovac a killed/weakened virus vaccine? It's efficacy (nobody talks about NNT) is much lower than the mRNA vaccines but not that far behind AZ vaccine (depending where one looks) However, it seems to work better against the S.African virus. AZ is pretty woeful against that strain.
Anyhow, killed/weakened virus vaccines aren't without potential problems. Nothing is 100%safe but are a hell of a lot safer than COVID if one is in the wrong age/health problems bracket.

What type of vaccine was the H1N1 vaccine used in Scandinavia a few years ago?

It's efficacy (nobody talks about NNT) is much lower...

Efficacy could be related, but are in no way the same as the effectiveness in the real population.
According to the experts, the efficacy stat (95%) from a controlled clinical trial
are not usually matched in the real world. We know this from past vaccines such as the flu shot in certain age groups where the effectiveness is much lower than efficacy. We also know this, there’s abundant evidence that people can get infected with the coronavirus without ever showing symptoms. And so it’s possible that a number of people who got vaccinated in the clinical trials got infected, too, without ever realizing it. If those cases indeed exist, none of them are reflected in the 95 percent efficacy rate.
So myself and Elizabeth will be in the Placebo group, who are actually part of the real and greater trial to compare the vaxxed group
to the unvaxxed group, according to the CDC for a true comparison of prevention.
Heres a thought, why not have a clinical trial and use Ivermectin as the Placebo vs the rMna vaccine?

I wrote a long paragraph.. then I erased it. For anyone that wants to look at side effects reported from the vaccine on the CDC website.. here is a link. You can search for any side effects or all of them based on the type of vaccine etc. J&J of course isn't on there yet-- just those approved. I found it helpful this weekend. (I am not 65+ but in 1C and also a caregiver.. to our son.. which actually makes me valid to get one when available which they aren't here.)

[wonder.cdc.gov]

No money in giving Ivermectin, it is an inexpensive drug.

I had my second vaccine today. All went well and I dodged the epi pen. I did get the metallic tingling tongue lip roof of mouth sensation as before. Headache started after an hour and a monster dizziness and high BP kept me there an additional 15 minutes.

Questions:
Why was I repeatedly asked when I was directed to a room if this was my first moderna or second dose? Aren’t they the same liquid volume?

While waiting to leave another jab-ee commented the lot number was the same. I checked my card and it is true.

It’s been 28 days plus I was told they used that dose the prior week 5 weeks ago. How potent is a vaccine left in fridge/freezer for 5 weeks? I’m surprised it wasn’t used up m...unless this lot was reserved for those seeking the second dose.

UCLA just got Pfizer this week if anyone in CA is interested.

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susan.d
Questions:
Why was I repeatedly asked when I was directed to a room if this was my first moderna or second dose? Aren’t they the same liquid volume?

Yeah, it's the same dose, but they're trying to keep track of who's had what doses and make sure people get both doses but only both, not one and not three or four. I know it's annoying and it seems silly to keep getting asked the same question over and over, but spend a little time asking people medical history questions and you'll soon understand why they do that. Five people can ask one patient the same question six times and get the same answer, and then one more person asks one more time and gets the opposite answer. You'd be surprised how common that is. I mean, seriously, it happens multiple times per day for paramedics, ER nurses, and other front-line people whose job it is to ask those questions. So, basically, they don't really believe your answer because they've heard too many people reverse their answer 3 minutes later when someone else asks.

I don't know why people do this but I've seen it hundreds of times myself.

Thanks Carey but they had my vaccine card that showed I was vaccinated once already plus my printed appointment sheet stating my name and “2nd dose” moderna appointment. “People may forget but ink doesn’t fade”, my favorite quote, applies without repeatedly being asked. Thus my curiosity if the doses are the same.

It must be more confusing now at the medical clinic because the Pfizer rooms have signs and moderna not and they are on the same floor. They never asked to confirm if I am getting another moderna because you can’t mix Pfizer and moderna.j

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Elizabeth
I wasn't looking for comfort, just facts----i don't intend to get the vaccine, which isn't a vaccine it is a mRNA gene therapy. I have read about the process about which this mRNA does its work. It is about your immune system, which I have said that is why I take the supplements that i do plus I forgot to add i take Magnesium all of which is to help my immune system.

good luck to everybody

I signed up to v-safe. Doing a good deed since we are all lab rats. They text daily for 5 weeks collecting data about potential side effects. No app needed. No invasive questions other than name and date of birth. You are then assigned an ID number for their studies and follow ups. Questions include to rate injection site pain, to check off all common temporary side effects such as headaches, chills, etc., other box to fill in your reactions that were not listed, plus they asked if you were able to return to work. Benign quick questions.

[www.cdc.gov]

How long do v-safe check-ins last?
During the first week after you get your vaccine, v-safe will send you a text message each day to ask how you are doing. Then you will get check-in messages once a week for up to 5 weeks. The questions v-safe asks take less than 5 minutes to answer.

If you need a second dose of vaccine, v-safe will provide a new 6-week check-in process so you can share your second-dose vaccine experience as well. Finally, you’ll receive check-ins 3, 6, and 12 months after your final dose of vaccine.

How does my participation in v-safe make a difference?
By participating in v-safe, you can tell CDC if you have any side effects after a COVID-19 vaccine. This information helps CDC monitor the safety of COVID-19 vaccines in near real time. If any serious health problems are reported, they can be quickly investigated by CDC’s medical experts and scientists. In addition, traditional vaccine safety systems, such as Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting Systemexternal icon (VAERS) and the Vaccine Safety Datalink (VSD), will also be used to monitor the safety of COVID-19 vaccines. These systems are part the nation’s comprehensive approach to vaccine safety.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2021 01:23AM by susan.d.

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susan.d
Thanks Carey but they had my vaccine card that showed I was vaccinated once already plus my printed appointment sheet stating my name and “2nd dose” moderna appointment. “People may forget but ink doesn’t fade”, my favorite quote, applies without repeatedly being asked. Thus my curiosity if the doses are the same.

It must be more confusing now at the medical clinic because the Pfizer rooms have signs and moderna not and they are on the same floor. They never asked to confirm if I am getting another moderna because you can’t mix Pfizer and moderna.j

My answer still applies. Vaccine card or not, re-verifying your info is SOP for them. And I bet you anything they get more than one conflicting answer per day.

This doctor explains and backs up what he is saying with data about vaccination for people who had COVID.:
[www.youtube.com]