Natto vs. nattokinase daily?

Is anyone eating natto daily for its fibrinolytic/thrombolytic properties? If so, how much do you eat? Is one tablespoon daily enough to accomplish anything? Any suggestions for making it more palatable?

I am concerned about the possible bleeding risks associated with nattokinase. I don't see how that would be any different or better than bleeding risks from NOAC (which I am not taking). It seems to me, consuming natto daily instead of nattokinase would be superior/safer way to get the fibrinolytic/throbolytic qualities from this product? Because vitamin K2 is also part of natto but has been removed from nattokinase.

Thank you!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2020 01:49PM by PoetKim.

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PoetKim
Is anyone eating natto daily for its fibrinolytic/thrombolytic properties? If so, how much do you eat? Is one tablespoon daily enough to accomplish anything? Any suggestions for making it more palatable?

Kim, Dean from Australia has been eating natto for ~15 years to successfully keep his afib at bay. Hear is a search of his posts on natto. [www.afibbers.org]

You might like this post [www.afibbers.org]

I ate natto for a while in the 2006 or so period. Maybe 9 months, because of Dean's experience. Turns out my gut wasn't happy with the soy (even fermented), so I quit. As to palatable, it is an acquired taste. Most get used to it after a while. I got to where I looked forward to it.

Kim,

I used to eat natto daily for the K2 MK7 but don't anymore. My pro tip is to leave in freezer, let it partially thaw, cut into chunks and then drizzle about 20 grams of EVOO on top, eat with a spoon. This will raise the bio-availability of MK7 by a considerable amount. End result raises osteocalcin carboxolation. A great thing to happen.



Here's what led me to put my earlier statement in on the low bioavailability of nattokinase.

[www.sciencedirect.com]

[www.sciencedirect.com]

[pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

As I read it - this puts OTC nattokinase with an enteric coating (most do not) bioavailability at about 1.4%



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2020 02:59PM by NotLyingAboutMyAfib.

Thank you George & NLAMA for this info and these tips.

Poetkim.

I eat 1 packet of natto every 2nd day, (recommended by Dean)

I place one packet of natto on a piece of toast and sprinkle some Cajun seasoning on it and have eat it for breakfast with a cup of coffee.
I started eating Natto 2 years ago and over that time it has reduced my afib burden from 2 to 3 events a month to 2 or 3 events a year.
One event so far this year, I can live with that.

I also take nattokinase night and morning for blood thinning. I am a 77 year old loan afibber (no other health condition)
I dont think i need to take any blood thinners but do so because my Doctor threatened to prescribe some.

Thank you for this info Colindo. I may try it that way - on toast with seasoning. It sounds like it has been super effective for you! I will try my first natto tomorrow morning.

Some notes on natto and nattokinase

100g of natto contains 0.1g (1000IU) of Nattokinase.

Nattokinase units typically standardized to ~2000 U/100mg

So a serving of natto will yield about 1/2 of the pill - if I were to take nattokinase, I'd put the commercial capsules in an enteric capsule and try to get it past the stomach.

Alternatively - Intraduodenal administration of nattokinase (NK) will work very well.

[pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

If you're taking it for the K2 MK7 and carboxolation - EVOO is the best way to go of the research that is published.

I am interested in natto for both the K2-Mk7 and the nattokinase. I was reading that one tablespoon of natto has more than 150 mcg K2-Mk7. That means I can stop taking my K2 pill, which is just 100 mcg. And I am all for removing pills from my life. Will put the EVOO on it or some other fat for the K2 absorption. I am going to try my first natto tomorrow morning!

Kim,

Natto has the most amount of MK7 of any foods by far and is the most economical way of getting it. Muenster and aged gouda are fractional to natto.

I travel a lot and taking frozen natto to Europe is difficult so I use Koncentrated K - silly product, bad label but the best way to get consistent MK7 without the soy. I also take it with EVOO.

It's about the same price per MK7 unit - BTW MK4 never appears in blood serum so I am among those that suspect it doesn't do much.

MK7 peaks in first few hours and tails off over next 48.

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NotLyingAboutMyAfib
BTW MK4 never appears in blood serum so I am among those that suspect it doesn't do much.

Some will disagree strongly. I don't know who is correct.

Here's my reasoning - these 2 papers

MK-4 was not detectable in the serum of all subjects at any time point. Consecutive administration of MK-4 (60 μg; 135 nmol) or MK-7 (60 μg; 92 nmol) for 7 days demonstrated that MK-4 supplementation did not increase serum MK-4 levels. However, consecutive administration of MK-7 increased serum MK-7 levels significantly in all subjects.
Conclusions

We conclude that MK-4 present in food does not contribute to the vitamin K status as measured by serum vitamin K levels. MK-7, however significantly increases serum MK-7 levels and therefore may be of particular importance for extrahepatic tissues.


[nutritionj.biomedcentral.com]

[pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

I had my 1st natto this morning. It was.... okay. It smelled quite nice - like aromatic coffee beans. And I stirred it up first to get that white sticky webby thing happening. But more chewing was involved than I was prepared for.

I just stuffed a large tablespoon of it in my mouth, unadorned. That's about half of one of the frozen styrafoam packages (which claim to contain 2 servings). 1 Tablespoon is supposed to contain more than 150 mcg of Vitamin K2 -MK7. And of course nattokinase (but maybe not as much of that as I thought.)

Am trying to not add carbs to diet. So didn't want to have it with rice or toast - 2 popular options. Did have it with egg and some cheddar cheese for the fat needed to absorb the vitamin K. Did not really feel like drizzling EVOO on it. But maybe if I do something fancier in future.

Thank you everyone for the tips and insights on natto!

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PoetKim
I had my 1st natto this morning. It was.... okay. It smelled quite nice - like aromatic coffee beans. And I stirred it up first to get that white sticky webby thing happening. But more chewing was involved than I was prepared for.

I just stuffed a large tablespoon of it in my mouth, unadorned. That's about half of one of the frozen styrafoam packages (which claim to contain 2 servings). 1 Tablespoon is supposed to contain more than 150 mcg of Vitamin K2 -MK7. And of course nattokinase (but maybe not as much of that as I thought.)

Am trying to not add carbs to diet. So didn't want to have it with rice or toast - 2 popular options. Did have it with egg and some cheddar cheese for the fat needed to absorb the vitamin K. Did not really feel like drizzling EVOO on it. But maybe if I do something fancier in future.

Thank you everyone for the tips and insights on natto!

I should point out it took 2 months of eating Natto before I started to notice any reduction in afib events, so it's not a quick fix.

The Styrofoam packets of Natto I get are 50gms which I consume as one serving and the white sticky stuff is the good stuff.


BTW.
Most of the bacteria beneficial to the intestines such as bifidus are killed in the stomach by the acid before they reach the intestines if taken orally. But natto bacteria are able to survive the journey and reproduce in the intestines where they aid digestion.

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colindo
BTW.
Most of the bacteria beneficial to the intestines such as bifidus are killed in the stomach by the acid before they reach the intestines if taken orally. But natto bacteria are able to survive the journey and reproduce in the intestines where they aid digestion.

Interesting! Glad to hear that. I could use some assistance with digestion!

Congrats Kim - Kate Rheume Bleu had me worried as hell about natto smell and taste but I actually get a umami sensation from the natto and olive oil. I miss it to some degree. Other that have tried the EVOO route have loved it too.

I only let it thaw to be easy enough to separate from the foam container (why they don't use the plastic top and bottom is beyond me) then cut into pieces, put in a small bowl and then add the EVOO - stir a little bit then just get in and down. A bit like swallowing pills (or monolaurin). I never went back to soy, wasabi and mustard after trying EVOO.

I plan to try the EVOO approach tomorrow!

I know of some people that let it ferment longer on the counter and apparently the taste and smell head south of some cheeses but I'm happy with it as is.

I can't find the source right now but there is an expert in K2 MK7 that discussed in detail the issues surrounding nattto in America. Although the 3 brands I bought and cycled through (hedging my bets) all had Japanese packaging, I did not check to see if it was JNKA certified. I might go buy some this week and look closer.

[j-nattokinase.org]

The caffeine in coffee doesn’t trigger your AF? What about Cajun spices? Doesn’t spicy seasoning affect your vagal response to trigger AF?

I’m in AF and flutter since Friday again. It’s going to be a long four days with covid19 testing before my ecv and dodging covid19. I have not have caffeine or even chocolate since 2004. I miss chocolate but it wasn’t worth risking af. Now would probably not hurt since I am already in af and flutter but since my ablation I cannot self convert for some reason. I don’t want a higher hr by enjoying a cup of hot cocoa.

I would try natto but soy is a no no for those with breast cancer according to Sloan Kettering. FYI.

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colindo
Poetkim.

I eat 1 packet of natto every 2nd day, (recommended by Dean)

I place one packet of natto on a piece of toast and sprinkle some Cajun seasoning on it and have eat it for breakfast with a cup of coffee.
I started eating Natto 2 years ago and over that time it has reduced my afib burden from 2 to 3 events a month to 2 or 3 events a year.
One event so far this year, I can live with that.

I also take nattokinase night and morning for blood thinning. I am a 77 year old loan afibber (no other health condition)
I dont think i need to take any blood thinners but do so because my Doctor threatened to prescribe some.