DNA/stress

I have been reading that a lot of posters believe that stress causes their AF---I believe that we have the DNA for AF, sometimes certain things can bring it on. For me, I was over medicated on my thyroid med and became hyper which caused my AF. I believe some meds will cause AF, as I had posted about a woman taking a cancer drug caused her to be in permanent AF. How do we know that some drugs people take isn't causing their AF or perhaps even some supplements that people might over do on? Throughout history people have gone through very stressful times they all didn't get AF. I have had some very stressful times and didn't go into AF, I have had quiet times and that is when I get AF.

Liz
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Interesting thoughts Liz. You might be onto something?
During the second world war when the Germans occupied Denmark they had food shortages and it was noted that hear disease reduced. Don't know about AF though. However, i don't think that peoples stress levels were reduced.
As Dr McDougall says - we are poisoning ourselves with the food we eat. Don't know if his STARCH diet is the way to go - i do wonder what it does to blood glucose levels. Suppose i'll just have to try it and find out with strict glucose monitoring

I'm of the opinion that afib is 90% genetics and only 10% external factors. In other words, if you got the wrong genes, you're probably going to develop afib sooner or later no matter what you do or don't do. The right lifestyle, diet, exercise, etc, might delay it or reduce the severity, but it's not going to prevent it. Likewise, looking for causes is probably futile. Although a few things like endurance sports, sleep apnea, hyperthyroidism, and heart surgery are well known for "causing" afib, the majority of people with all those things don't develop afib, so calling them causes is probably inaccurate. They're contributing factors, not causes. If you don't have the underlying substrate, then you can probably smoke and drink and become obese and have sleep apnea for decades and you'll never develop afib. But if you do have that substrate, then you'll probably develop afib even if you do none of those things.

When looking for causes of afib, you have to keep in mind that only about 5% of the population has afib even though almost 100% of the population engages in some or all of the things that people frequently blame afib on. What that should tell you is those things aren't actually causes. You need to think of them as contributing factors, not causes.

I am 100% with Carey on this and have believed right from the start that I am broken genetically, a term I used on this BB around 2006/2007 when I first showed up having AFIB during a treadmill stress test at Bumrungrad hospital in Bangkok. I was a fitness fanatic however the test was done only a few hours after a big night out in Bangkok. I was in Bangkok for a full medical during a long weekend trip with the lads from work and our temporary homes in Macau near Hong Kong.

I might be broken because I cannot hold onto magnesium, potassium, electrolytes etc etc etc or it may be that my heart muscles are deteriating due to age just like wrinkles appearing on my skin or other unknown reasons. Maybe the 'protective insulation' around the vagus nerve is defective causing a 'short' in the electric wiring system. Typical of this is how some affibers start an episode by simply bending down to tie their shoe laces or lie down, which seems to me nothing to do with electrolytes.

I once read on this BB of a case of 'wandering stomache' and the general story was that the vagus nerve is a long nerve that is connected to the stomache on its way thru the body. The wandering stomache literally moves around in the body much more than in none-afib people during walking or running and thus the nerve is impinged in some way causing afib. This make sense to me as when I was at my worst period with afib I could always instigate afib by just jogging 25 to 50 metres/yards yet I could hike for 2 hours no problem. AF after jogging for just a few metres could be a purely mechanical reason for AF.

I could go on for ages but will summarise by saying my mother had AF but I didn't know at the time, my eldest sister had Flutter and possibly AF but I didn't know at the time and my eldest daughter now age 49 has had 6 failed ablations for AFIB. Genetic or coincidence??
P.S. I didn't know at the time because I was working overseas and obviously never got burdened with illnesses back home. I only found out when I joined the 'club'.

Barry G.

I fully agree with Carey too.
I'd add something about my predisposition to afib (likely genetic - both parents afibbers), it's the cyclic phenomenon. After an afib episode, the next 24h or so are incredibly quiet. No way to have neither afib nor a single ectopic.
It seems some kind of battery is depleted and needs time to recharge. Hence, whatever I may have pointed as a possible trigger doesn't work at all.

I also agree with Carey 100%. Here is my take on genetics/DNA and behaviors using an analogy. I have brown skin and dark brown eyes while my wife has very light skin and blue eyes, clearly genetic differences I can see. Suppose we both sit in the summer sun in our bathing suits for a half hour. My wife will get a sun burn and feel sick whereas I will get a tan and feel great. So do to our genetic differences, the sun exposure was healthy for me but unhealthy for her. Now if I sit in the sun for one hour, I will burn and it becomes unhealthy for me. I know this is a simple way of putting it, but it helps me understand my AFIB.
I believe my AFIB was the result of 40+ years of excessive endurance exercise. For some this much exercise may have caused AFIB earlier than me and in others would never getting AFIB, just as in the sun burn analogy.

For those who are genetically predisposed, which lacking an alternative one might interpret as having a parent or grandparent or sibling who has AF, it may well be true that other factors are of lesser significance or even irrelevant for the long term AF outcome. However, lacking that predisposition, the situation is less clear. In that case testing for and eliminating triggers may yield more robust results. Of course, even if true, it is no easy task to eliminate triggers such as stress.

What Carey and Barry G say.

My mother had AF from age 35 to when she died at 80 from non-AF-related causes (she didn't go permanent until age 70 - no meds or ablation) and both her younger sisters have atrial arrhythmia issues although not AF (at least diagnosed/verified). Its in the genes. Although that said one can accelerate the predisposition with unhealthy living.

MWCF:

Wow, your mom had AF for 45 years without any meds, does that include Blood thinners? She was a young woman when she got AF and then raised a family. I believe our DNA has a lot to do with it, but there are still cases where something causes our electrical circuits to go haywire.

I had posted a while back about reading a blog about a person getting episodes of AF from eating salmon. Well, funny thing at that time I had eaten some salmon and in the early a.m. I had AF. I havn't eaten any salmon for quite some time until last night, I woke up in the early A.M. with AF, who knows if that is a cause for me. I have been taking Hawthorn berry when I get AF--it is a liquid in a small bottle with a dropper, I took a dropper full and mix it into water, drank that and took 1 tab. of Propafenone, went back to bed and slept for a few hours when I woke up my AF was gone. The Hawthorn Berry seems to be helping me, I don't know about taking it everyday, it is also good for high Blood Pressure. There was some posts on here a while back about Hawthorne Berry but I didn't pay too much attention to it.

Liz

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mwcf
(...) Its in the genes. Although that said one can accelerate the predisposition with unhealthy living.

Yeah. Until having afib, I thought I had a healthy living : little alcohol consumption, normal BMI and "active" manners (homework, sports...). I hadn't a clue endurance sport (cycling) could accelerate a predisposition I wasn't even aware I had.

With something like afib, all of us would like to find a cause so that we can prevent further episodes. It's a pipe dream, other than the basics of avoiding dehydration, keeping K, and Mg levels up, etc.

It just happens and that's the way it is, so we do what is necessary to prevent a stroke, take meds to minimize the impact, and possibly have an ablation to "control" further episodes.

Barry G,
It was me who posted about my “wandering stomach” back in 2003. To update for newer afibbers here is what the attending Doc reported at the time when I had a Barium meal test:

Clinical History of Dean:
“Reflux of food. Feeling of fibrillation of the heart when bending over.”

“Initially on screening the stomach the configuration was normal. On lateral views ,after moving Dean supine, prone and then back to erect (in simple terms a forward summersault on the operating table), the configuration of the stomach altered with the antrum and duodenum on the erect view now lying above the level of the fundus.”

“There is valvulus of the stomach with a change in the position of the fundus from supine to the erect position.”

I think the Doc said that 3 or 5% of the population have valvulus of the stomach ie. wandering stomach.

At the time I was a keen swimmer but stayed out of the water for 2 years because swimming would cause a heavy run of ectopics and was scared I would go into afib and drown while body surfing. As surfing moves the body around everywhich way I bet it was the wandering stomach causing the ectopic run.

I latter found out the best way to stop a run of ectopics turning into afib was to stand at attention like a soldier for a minute or two. Must have settled the stomach down.

I have always wondered how many keen sportsman who over train and have afib have wandering stomachs? Did GeorgeN have one?

Dean

Hi Dean, thanks for your post.

Well that ensures I wasn't dreaming up the wandering stomach story though I must have read your post a few years after your original message as I only found out about the AF in 2006.

With regards to ……."I think the Doc said that 3 or 5% of the population have valvulus of the stomach" coincidentally ties in with Carey's recent post where he believes AF only shows up in around 5% of the population.

I doubt we will ever get to the bottom of what causes AF as there are countless 'triggers' mentioned by afibbers on this forum alone. There was one poster here who stated he needed his brain ablating and he may well have been onto something. My guess is everyone reading this post has gone to A&E or whatever in full blown AF or AFL and no sooner he /she gets in the place the arrhythmia stops before it can be recorded, it has happened to me plenty of times. I could mention many other instances when the AF refused to show when I needed it to to prove it was not in my imagination. A recent post these last few days describes a case of an afibber who was to wear an Holter Meter???? to check his AF occurrences and as soon as they started the testing period the AF dramatically receded. There certainly appears to be a mental aspect to AF with Anxiety being up there as the main reason for the initial start up of AF. The fear of AF can create AF hence in this case Afib begets Afib.

P.S. I'm sure George will answer you question shortly.

Barry G.

When I went to a cardiologist first time saying that I felt arrhythmia he prescribed the Zio. I told him that I thought that caffeine, alcohol might be triggers. He told to go home and drink as much coffee and alcohol as I can handle in the next two weeks, so that we get some data on the Zio. True enough I did that, and the days that I combined a triple latte, two glasses of wine, and a decent cardio run,. I was able to trigger it. Never more than a couple hours and it always converted itself. I've never tried that combination since! But it could have been dehydration caused by all three...who knows.

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Dean

I have always wondered how many keen sportsman who over train and have afib have wandering stomachs? Did GeorgeN have one?

I don't think so.

In general, lack of magnesium and to a lesser extent, potassium are my main triggers. So is too much endurance activity, but that may be correlated with the electrolytes, too.

Years ago (2007?) I tried natto food because of your experience, for 9 or 12 months. Don't think it made a difference one way or the other for my afib. I forgot what issues I was having, but one time I went out of town without the natto and the issues (not afib) went away. Hence I don't think the soy agrees with me and I quit eating it. I've thought about making it from pressure cooked organic black beans, so would have the benefit of the Bacillus subtilis (fermenting bacteria for those readers other than Dean), but not the soy benefits you describe.

George



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2019 10:50PM by GeorgeN.