Testosterone replacement therapy

Anyone have any thoughts on TRT. I know some guys feel a bit "hyped" up the day of their intake of testosterone.
Will this affect my afib? Does anyone have any experience with testosterone and afib?
Im just being a bit cautious, it seems I usually get the negative effects if any.

I was on testosterone for several years with no adverse symptoms other than feeling better. I have been off of it for about a year now and feel like crap.
This was all managed by my doctor.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2019 07:29AM by rocketritch.

I’ve never done it myself but my thoughts are to be very careful about what you decide to supplement. Many of these products you hear hyped over the air (specifically sports radio - how stereotypical) contain a lot of other things like mega-doses caffeine and other stimulants. That could wreak havoc on an afibber. I haven’t researched exactly how to best supplement pure testosterone but would like to know more about it. I really don’t think it’s something I need at this point in life but, hey, knowledge is power.

To clarify, you're asking about medically supervised replacement therapy, right? Not supplements and stuff like that.

Hi TSCO,

Make sure you are under the care of an MD who is fellowship trained and certified in bio-identical hormone replacement therapy (BHRT). That MD will know how to test you properly and titrate dosing for your body type to give you an optimal amount without excessive levels and without too low of a dosage to have the broad range of positive effects we’ll balanced replacement program can deliver.

It won’t stimulate AFIB if you follow up with proper after care and periodic proper testing g to insure you remain within the broad U shaped curve of an optimal Total & Free Testosterone blood labs.

I don’t recommend the so called Testosterone supplements as many of this formulas have all kinds of other energy boosting ingredients that have little to do with real testosterone and some of which some could ramp up your adrenal system and possibly lead to a lot of ectopy or actual AFIB, especially if one is still prone to arrhythmia.

Just stick with the real deal and use it wisely in normal range physiologic doses under expert BHRT medical guidance and you should do fine!

Shannon

I agree with Shannon, Wolfpack and Carey. I would not touch any so-called Testosterone boosting supplement with a 10 foot poll having afib.

I was on medical testosterone therapy for more than 10 years; first liquid topical from the VA then implants from my Urologist. Had to quit when I developed prostate cancer. I was told my my medical mafia that testosterone doesn't cause prostate cancer but will accelerate the growth of it if you have it.

You should get the blood test for hypergonadism which will indicate if you are a candidate for the therapy,. I was. Normally, early morning free testosterone should be above 300ng/dl.

In my case, when my PSA went over 4.5 @ age 80, they discontinued it - and, yes I miss it, too - a lot for several reasons. When my PSA got to 6.4 in 6 months off I was sent for an MRI.

I have completed prostate cancer therapy and have been told by my Urologist that I can again have testosterone once my PSA is near zero and unchanged for a year.

I, too, am one of those who wouldn't touch the OTC supplements available. It's easy enough and cheap enough to get the real thing in the right dosage if it's right for you.

Gordon

I've been on testosterone (shots) for over ten years. It does not make you feel "hyped up" or anything out of the ordinary at all. Period. It started because my wife was quite ill and not getting any good answers from HMO type doctors. We eventually found a D.O. doctor who for moderate $$$ does extended visits to get to the root of things. Bioidentical hormone doctor visits and consults don't lend themselves to five-minute conventional doctor checks. Long story short, he tuned up her thyroid and hormones (bioidentical cream) to optimal, youthful specs. She was doing so well and since I was not doing that great, so I decided I would let him also "tune me up".

Turns out at the age of (then) 52, I had the testosterone of an 80-year-old man. My thyroid had also crept down below optimal. And he wasn't feeding me bunk, I verified what he was saying on about a bazillion websites as I never allow my self to be suckered by just one source. He looks at getting testosterone, estrogen (also important to have proper levels as a guy, not too much, not too little), and thyroid. All have optimal ranges, you can have too much or too little of all of these for good, long health in the longer and shorter term.

Here's the bottom line. If it's done right, you just feel regular, good. You do not turn into Arnold Schwarzenegger or fly into " 'roid rages". People like that are taking their hormones to supraphysiologic levels, it's then called "doing steroids". My little bottle of testosterone cypionate lasts three months pretty much exactly, and the bottle costs $40 at Walgreens using GoodRX (GoodRX, in this case, is cheaper than my insurance). My levels are checked every six months as a condition of my script. Someone "doing steroids" uses far more than that, they might use two bottles a month! This can lead to a pretty huge issue with the human body, like Schwarzenegger having to have a heart valve replacement, etc.

Now what I would notice would be if I were to suddenly stop doing those testosterone shots. After a few weeks, I would feel very lethargic and blah. So, this is something you would want to continue for sure once you start.

My levels of testosterone previously were 180ng, the normal, optimal level for a man is about 500-750ng, mine run about 600-650ng. My level of estrogen was only 9ng, that low a level put me at great risk of having bone density issues. Now it's in the optimal range of 20-25.

I do the shots three times a week M-W-F, this keeps levels more natural than one huge shot one a week, or like some doctors do, one shot every two weeks! And it's not necessary to do shots into the muscle, as that's extremely painful. The method in the video below is the way I've been doing it for about a half dozen years with a tiny syringe, it's pretty much painless. [youtu.be]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2019 12:38PM by onewaypockets.

I take s Testosterone shot every 10 days. I have been doing this over a year Doctor supervised. My dosage I take every 10 days is .4 cc/ml. I inject with a size 23 needle in my butt as directed to. Actually my Beautiful Wife does the injection. My last test showed my T was 769. It was below 200 before I started the injections.
I am 61 and it has worked miracles in “MANY WAYS” for me.
The shot in the butt does not hurt. It has never affected my Heart and at the beginning when we were fine tuning the dosage amount my T was 1410. That’s high.
Anyway, Find a Doctor who will allow you to self inject.
Happy Days!!!😀

Quote
smackman
I take s Testosterone shot every 10 days. I have been doing this over a year Doctor supervised. My dosage I take every 10 days is .4 cc/ml. I inject with a size 23 needle in my butt as directed to. Actually my Beautiful Wife does the injection. My last test showed my T was 769. It was below 200 before I started the injections.
I am 61 and it has worked miracles in “MANY WAYS” for me.
The shot in the butt does not hurt. It has never affected my Heart and at the beginning when we were fine tuning the dosage amount my T was 1410. That’s high.
Anyway, Find a Doctor who will allow you to self inject.
Happy Days!!!😀

I don't remember what my dosage was but they had me stop because my my RBC count was getting high and they wanted to re-evaluate. I was off for over 8 months when I was tested again. My free "T" level is 4.39 ng/dl which I think is low and my Total "T" it 169 ng/dl which is very low for a 53 yo. However, my doctor seems to think this is normal. I"m not so sure.

Yes medically supervised!

Quote
rocketritch

I don't remember what my dosage was but they had me stop because my RBC count was getting high and they wanted to re-evaluate. I was off for over 8 months when I was tested again. My free "T" level is 4.39 ng/dl which I think is low and my Total "T" it 169 ng/dl which is very low for a 53 yo. However, my doctor seems to think this is normal. I"m not so sure.

Hi Rocket, one of the things that happens if the dose is too high is hemocrit creeps up to a level where you have to give blood to get rid of some. That's because testosterone builds red blood, but you can certainly have too much of the good thing. Another thing common to an excessive amount of supplemental T is BP also creeps up. The amount I take keeps this from happening, and the way I take it, a shot with a tiny needle on M-W-F, a much smaller amount each time, keeps both of these things from happening. After all, when we were young, the testicles made T a little each and every day, a level amount, not a whopping huge amount every so often like these huge shots people take. Another thing these huge shots do it take the T way up right after the shot to around a 1,500ng moonshot, and then it slowly drifts down over the next 10 days until the next shot. But imagine how low it becomes right before the next shot is due...what a roller coaster ride!

And if your doctor thinks that the total T of 169ng is normal, you need a new doctor. While it might be in their bogus reference range, but it's not optimal by any bizarre stretch. Let's remember how reference ranges are created....they take 10,000 men, measure the T in them to come up with these ranges. This 10,000 sample includes old, sick, and other not optimal samples. And lets compare that with what we are trying to achieve, getting our hormones optimal, getting our bodies tuned up so we feel well. In closing, just staying in reference range is not optimal, as the optimal range and reference range are very different things!

Tsco:

The concern you expressed is valid if a person took a very large dose of T, or of the more potent Anabolic Steriods.
I recommend injecting every 4-5 days, verses every 7-10 days. The T breaks down at differing speeds in different people, but most men have too much of a Spike followed by a low point, if going with a longer injection schedule. This can be verified by getting blood tests done at various intervals after T administration. Most men can also just feel the lag and lethargy when their T drops down after 5 days or so.

.4 cc is a LOW dosage every 10 days but it works for me and my RBC count is fine as my Physician checks it every 6 months. Also169 is extremely low. The best way to control low T is with a patch but it is very expensive so I do the shots myself or my wife administrates it. Everyone is different and I feel taking shots 3x a week is IMO excessive. No Physician where I live would approve this.

My dosage was 200mg/ml every 14 days.
I looked back at my numbers from 2016 and they were very similar to what they are today. Free T was 6.4 ng/dl and my Total "T" was 211 ng/dl. Only difference was my doc thought that was low at the time.
I'm going to seek out a new doc.

Quote
rocketritch
My dosage was 200mg/ml every 14 days.
I looked back at my numbers from 2016 and they were very similar to what they are today. Free T was 6.4 ng/dl and my Total "T" was 211 ng/dl. Only difference was my doc thought that was low at the time.
I'm going to seek out a new doc.

That is very low. Low enough to make you feel miserable in many ways. My total T was 769, My Free T was 15 on my last testing 2 months ago.

Quote
rocketritch
My dosage was 200mg/ml every 14 days.
I looked back at my numbers from 2016 and they were very similar to what they are today. Free T was 6.4 ng/dl and my Total "T" was 211 ng/dl. Only difference was my doc thought that was low at the time.
I'm going to seek out a new doc.

My dosage is actually 80mg/ml every 10 days.

Ask your Urologist about the 3 month Testosterone implants for steady levels.
Medicare pays for it if you have Hypogonadism.
Have you discussed the uptake and bleeddown of your TRT shots with your physicians? That curve could get scary.

Quote
ggheld
Ask your Urologist about the 3 month Testosterone implants for steady levels.
Medicare pays for it if you have Hypogonadism.
Have you discussed the uptake and bleeddown of your TRT shots with your physicians? That curve could get scary.

The implant would require being off blood thinner and aspirin which is a no no for me.Also, many men on a reputable Testosterone forum do not give the implant a good rating.

Thanking all of you for an excellent conversation !!! We aren't getting younger and this is an important topic !

Has anyone here ever done a steroid cycle of testosterone? I am 28 and my testosterone is only 420 ng/dl and I lift weights 4 times a week and eat healthy, which supposedly boosts testosterone. Given my age and activity I would expect to be much higher. Would like to do a cycle of testosterone but worried about how it may affect Afib. Some studies say steroids are bad for the heart, they may not be strictly using testosterone though and may be using other dangerous compounds. Secondly, I’ve heard views that If you keep all your blood work within normal ranges then it’s completely harmless. Any views? I have Afib under control from medication and a structurally normal heart.

I will be very candid......have experienced low testosterone for quite some time ( fluctuates between low 200's and high 100's) due to an orchiectomy for testicular cancer (15 years ago). In discussions with my oncologist and internist the primary question with testosterone treatment was about sexual dysfunction. That was not an issue so neither felt that testosterone treatment was necessary. After a significantly low measurement at one point began TRT utilizing a gel that I smeared on my shoulders each morning. Continued for about 18 months but while my numbers came up I did not experience any change in my overall physical condition. Since my cancer treatment I have my testosterone levels measured twice per year.

I participate in a forum for testicular cancer that is very similar this forum and there many guys who use TRT. Plus there are many guys who have had double orchiectomies. They have required testosterone treatment or they experience several physical issues. Most utilize the injections. One of the major complaints with the injections is their testosterone levels tend to be cyclic and consequently they experience mood swings and other issues.

My opinion......testosterone treatment is not worth the effort unless there is a major physical requirement for the hormone. Both my oncologist and internist are adamantly against the over the counter/supplement options. If is is required.....do so under the direction of a doctor.

One positive side note.....my oncologist said that if males live long enough they will probably develop prostate cancer. However low testosterone helps delay the problem..


Steve.

Steve: Indeed more men will die with prostate cancer than because of it. Some of us prefer neither of those choices.

Your Oncologist's statement about low T delaying the onset of prostate cancer is no longer current thinking, IMHO. The summary of the article below is that testosterone does fuel prostate cancer once it develops but does not cause it.
My prostate medical mafia agree that once my PSA has been consistently low for at least a year I can go back on T supplementation. I had radiation and ADT therapy, no surgery.

<[www.healthline.com];

Steve: Just today an article was published about low T and possible increase of Alzheimer's in prostate cancer patients, maybe up to a 30% increase in dementia risk with ADT. Link is below.
Seems to me we should get back to a normal T level ASAP.

<[www.webmd.com];

Thanks for the articles.

My internist was initially of the opinion that testosterone could be a catalyst for prostrate cancer but never my oncologist,,,,,he is the head of the genitourinary group at Memorial Hermann Hospital System here in Houston and sees a high number of prostrate cancer cases. He did not state that testosterone was a cause but could be a delaying factor..... but that was several years ago. At this point I do not see him on a regular basis..

After 15 years hope that I am indeed a testicular cancer survivor!!!

Good luck to you with the prostrate cancer.


s

Quote
Zb3
Has anyone here ever done a steroid cycle of testosterone? I am 28 and my testosterone is only 420 ng/dl and I lift weights 4 times a week and eat healthy, which supposedly boosts testosterone. Given my age and activity I would expect to be much higher. Would like to do a cycle of testosterone but worried about how it may affect Afib. Some studies say steroids are bad for the heart, they may not be strictly using testosterone though and may be using other dangerous compounds. Secondly, I’ve heard views that If you keep all your blood work within normal ranges then it’s completely harmless. Any views? I have Afib under control from medication and a structurally normal heart.

You need to look at your Free Test levels. That is a separate blood test. 420 is probably not low enough to take exogenous T, unless perhaps you were experiencing the symptoms of Hypogonadism (low T).

From what I can tell having higher T (or at least not low) might reduce AF. Still early in understanding.

[www.google.com]


As a note quercetin ( a zinc ionophore that many are using during covid has use in male cancers )

[www.google.com]