Nato Supplement Recommendation

Hello,

I'm going to travel soon and was considering starting a Nato Supplement for 2 reasons:

• Was eating Nato frequently but I don't think I can find it in the Netherlands and other locals (maybe Shannon knows where to get it in NL)
• I'm won't have my latest Zio Patch report prior to flying and thought it could be a good safety net until I know of my latest Zio Patch reports.

Does anyone have a suggestion for which particular brand to buy and what the dosage should be?

Thx

Que - Cardiokinase is thought to be the most reliable for potency and efficacy.

You can read the product details here: [www.pureprescriptions.com]

Remember also that pycnogenol was shown in studies to prevent clots on long-haul flights so that's another preventive option to use. When not on an anticoagulant, I've always used both when I fly.... even for short flights just as a precaution. [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

Also - magnesium helps reduce platelet aggregation; so does several grams/dose of a quality Omega 3 essential fatty acid.

Have a good trip!

Jackie

Thanks Jackie!

What dosage do you recommend, Jackie?

Travis

The dose for Cardiokinase is 3 capsules a day.... I took mine morning, noon and at bedtime.
Dose is 25 IU /capsule.

When I went on Eliquis, I cut back to only one a day, as I felt the other benefits of the nattokinase (enzyme) were important to keep in my system. Now that I'm on a half-dose of Eliquis, I'm using 2 capsules a day and have no bleeding or bruising issues.

Read Dr. Holsworth's detailed comments on Cardiokinase here: [www.pureprescriptions.com]

Check the details on the chart with the red hearts...Very complete info.

Dr. Holsworth collaborated with Dr. Sumi in Japan and brought the NK enzyme here to the US and began promoting it's use. When I contacted Dr. Holsworth in 2002, he helped me understand how safe and effective the enzyme is and how especially protective it would be for afibbers. It certainly saved me in 2003 when I had the clot in the LAA that showed on the CT scan. Dr. Holsworth deserves a medal for all his efforts.

Jackie

Jackie:

I PM'd you this question as well but I thought I would post it here too for others to learn from.

I'm considering adding 2 capsules of Cardiokinase daily to my supplement line up but maybe I should consider doing 3 per day??

I also take these daily:

600IU vitamin E
3 grams of fish oil
600mg of magnesium

Would adding 2 (or 3) capsules of Cardiokinase be a good idea or bad?

Travis

P.S. How do we really know how well these supplements are at thinning the blood? And how do they compare to prescription thinners or even aspirin? This whole blood thinning stuff "naturally" still has my head spinning. I never know if what I'm doing is too much or not enough or not making any difference at all!!

P.S.S. I don't take any medications and haven't had afib (knock on wood) since my ablation over a year ago. I just want blood thinning protection "just in case" the beast rears its ugly head again.

Travis... Take the time to read CR 39... which is the summary "introduction" to Nattokinase back when we first began discussing and using it. The points on safety and function are all addressed. These are dated 2005 which is three years after I began using and researching extensively so reliable information could be provided for afibbers who are interested in this approach. I've been using Nattokinase since 2002 - only stopping while I was on Eliquis and now on low doses of both.

You may not have read the many posts by Dean discussing his amazing results using the natto food source for the enzymes... but you can use the search feature to read his story as well.

If you continue on to CR 40, there are more relevant details that will help you understand how this fibrinolytic enzyme works.

CR Session 40…

Safety
No change from the original report. Both the food and the enzyme, nattokinase (NK), remain safe for afibbers and
anyone else wishing to take advantage of a natural supplement by enhancing their fibrinolytic system and reduce the
risk of thrombosis.

Nattokinase is contraindicated for individuals with a history of bleeding tendency or with conditions associated with
bleeding.

Remember, the enzyme, NK, does not act on or influence the clotting cascade, but rather up-regulates or enhances
the body’s ability to produce its own endogenous enzymes that promote fibrinolysis.

For clarity, remember, also that warfarin (Coumadin) works by interfering with the action of vitamin K. Aspirin works on
yet another mechanism. NK does not function at all in these two separate clotting pathways.

[On the topic of warfarin (Coumadin)... Physiologically, warfarin (Coumadin) does not actually decrease thickness of
the blood, but does allow you to bleed easier.]

There is no lethal dose. Dr. Holsworth says he has taken 30, 40, 50 capsules at a time of pure isolated nattokinase
(NSK- SD) with no side effects including bowel intolerance. He says in rare cases, there will be epistaxis (nosebleed)
which is traced to concurrent use of other anti-platelet aggregation supplements such as ginkgo, bromelain, Omega 3
fish oils, garlic and as soon as those are reduced in quantity, no further bleeding occurs

This is a reminder as to why it will be invaluable to retain access to old posts, reports, and Conference Room sessions with the new website.

You asked...

I'm considering adding 2 capsules of Cardiokinase daily to my supplement line up but maybe I should consider doing 3 per day??
I also take these daily:

600IU vitamin E
3 grams of fish oil
600mg of magnesium

Would adding 2 (or 3) capsules of Cardiokinase be a good idea or bad?

Travis

My response:

Of course I have to offer a disclaimer...in that everyone responds differently to various supplements.... but it's well known that nattokinase is safe and effective.

The bottle's label says:
Suggested Use: As a dietary supplement, take 3 SoftGels daily. For best results, take additional SoftGel at bedtime.[/b]

So - that's 4 a day... and is 2 more softgels than you intend to take...so with your other aids for keeping platelets "slippery" ie, the fish oil and vitamin E... you should be fine. But I would also consider taking the full, recommnded dose if you if you find through testing that any of your key markers are makers are elevate

P.S. How do we really know how well these supplements are at thinning the blood? And how do they compare to prescription thinners or even aspirin? This whole blood thinning stuff "naturally" still has my head spinning. I never know if what I'm doing is too much or not enough or not making any difference at all!!

Response: Again... read those CR sessions and the background/research about the function of fibrinolytic enzymes to prevent clot formation and work on 'lysing' any that do form. Focus on the points about reducing markers of inflammation that lead to thick, sticky blood .. such as C-reactive protein... and also the post on thick, sticky blood and the specific test results that are 'indicators' that your blood will tend to form clots more easily. It's not the 'thinning' property but what makes platelets sticky and likely to aggregate or clump. I've pasted that report below.

P.S.S. I don't take any medications and haven't had afib (knock on wood) since my ablation over a year ago. I just want blood thinning protection "just in case" the beast rears its ugly head again.

It's always wise to be aware of the influences that allow blood to be thick, sticky and clot more easily and assume a pro-active or "preventive" mode when it comes to health. Request the appropriate tests and remember the advice ... "Test, don't guess!

Jackie

Here's that post info:
[www.afibbers.org]

Sticky, thick blood - risk of stroke or MI
September 06, 2012

For new readers or for those who may have not been reading regularly and may have missed the many discussions about inflammation and sticky, thick blood leading to risk of stroke or heart attack, this is a reminder to become very knowledgeable on the key risk factors which can be identified by specific highly-sensitive tests.

Preventive medical care should be high priority and these tests should be routine, but apparently, there is more money to be made from having to stent or do bypass surgery. What other reason could there possibly be for not screening everyone with tests that truly are preventive indicators? Typically, unless you see a doctor who practices integrative/functional medicine, you’ll have to ask for these special tests and often pay out of pocket. It makes no sense that this is the case, but that’s the way it is. (Medicare pays for some but not all.) You can call the lab that routinely does your blood draws and ask which of these tests are covered by insurance and the cost if not covered. If you have to pay out of pocket, try to get as many as possible and eventually, all of them.

Afibbers, especially, should be screened routinely and if any numbers are out of range, then immediately take corrective measures to normalize the levels. Don’t rely that your cardiologist or internist is routinely checking. You have to be the one to make sure you know your numbers.

Overly sticky, thick, inflamed blood has a tendency for adverse clotting. Test, don’t guess.

INR measurements while on warfarin/Coumadin only indicate that specific number and as we know, warfarin does not protect us 100% from the risk of adverse clotting. If one or several these risk markers are out of the safe range, you can still have complications.

This is the list for essential testing
Homocysteine
Fibrinogen
Ferritin
High Sensitivity or Cardiac C-reactive protein
Hemoglobin A1C
Lipoprotein (a)
Interleukin – 6
Oxidized LDL

Elevated homocysteine, above all, is a very important marker. Everyone should read about and understand the role that elevated homocysteine plays as this is a serious influence. Many past posts on homocysteine have been offered. The Internet is loaded with information… specific reference would be the book by Kilmer McCully, MD… The Homocysteine Revolution.
Start here with this link – 2 part report plus others
[www.spacedoc.com]


Refer to the original post describing these marker tests.

Red Flags to Beat the Odds
PREDICTING YOUR RISK FOR HEART ATTACK OR STROKE –THE SILENT SYMPTOMS
[www.afibbers.net]

Interleukin is not on that post… it’s an important measurement to rule out inflammation.

Integrative Cardiologist Stephen Sinatra says:
Interleukin-6 is important because it stimulates the liver to produce CRP. And, in addition to heart disease, we are learning that this cytokine has a strong association with asthma (asthma is the result of airways swelling and constricting, so it makes sense that an inflammatory agent is behind the curtains here as well). The Iowa 65+ Rural Health Study demonstrated that elevations of interleukin-6 and CRP were associated with increased risk of both heart disease and general mortality in healthy older people.

I’m convinced that interleukin-6 may be an even better marker for inflammation than CRP because these “precursor” levels rise earlier. Therefore you should ask your doctor to conduct an interleukin-6 test.

Here’s that post:

Jackie
Red Flags to Beat the Odds - Reposted from 12/29/02
April 10, 2004 07:14AM

This was posted a while back and because of the iron-overload dialog in another thread, I am bring this forward for newer BB members. Some of the information could be changed as more refinements occur in test evaluations. However, these are the basic tests everyone should be requesting of their physicians on routine physicals.


PREDICTING YOUR RISK FOR HEART ATTACK OR STROKE –THE SILENT SYMPTOMS

Everyone interested in heart health must be aware of the need to identify components of toxic blood. Beyond standard screening tests for blood lipid levels (cholesterol and triglycerides), there are tests for risk markers that predict cardiovascular disease or stroke. These tests are beginning to become more routine but, generally, you must specifically request that your doctor order them. Some, are not covered by insurance.

Following are these markers with thumbnail sketch descriptions, an acceptable healthy range and natural remedies for prevention or therapeutics. The ranges will vary by doctor and lab and for this post, are meant to be just a general reference. Internet searches will provide a plethora of information. The intent of this post is to create awareness and stimulate independent research. Sources for my information include all my favorite natural health gurus, Julian Whitaker MD, Michael Murray, ND, Joseph Mercola, DO, Stephen Sinatra MD - just to name a few.


C-REACTIVE PROTEIN - is an antibody-like substance and a marker of a future risk of symptomatic peripheral vascular disease and heart disease. It is a protein, and if elevated, indicates arteries are inflamed. Inflammation stimulates white blood cells and can cause cholesterol deposits to break off and clog arteries or weaken instable plaque and trigger a heart attack or stroke.

Elevated C-reactive protein indicates inflammation from trauma, allergy, systemic diseases (rheumatoid arthritis), infection (including pneumonia, herpes, chlamydia and possibly viral infection that simulates a cold.) It is commonly found along with traditional risk factors such as smoking, obesity, high blood lipids, diabetes, hypertension and in victims of acute heart attack and unstable chest pains.

Reference range: .00 - .50 mg/dl - with ideal being as close to zero as possible.

Natural remedies include CoQ10, Beta 1/3/, 1/6 glucan, bromelain, ginger root, ginger tea. See Hans’ book - the chapter on Stroke prevention p. 124 and Inflammation p. 130.


HOMOCYSTEINE ( ho mo sis teen)
It’s been known since 1960 that homocysteine was linked to cardiovascular diseases, but the research community leaned toward the importance of the cholesterol theory of heart disease - until about 4 years ago when national news officially recognized that vitamins B6 B12 and folic acid can prevent heart disease… thereby validating the significance of a nutritional approach to treatment. These B vitamins, folate, and choline neutralize this dangerous compound.

Homocysteine is a dangerous amino acid that promotes free-radical oxidative stress and accelerates aging of the circulatory system by disrupting cell membranes in blood vessels and damaging arterial walls - causing premature heart disease. Researchers think excess levels allow cholesterol to penetrate blood vessel walls and start plaque formation. Over 20 studies indicate men and women with high homocysteine levels continue to have heart attacks and strokes.

Homocysteine is produced during the metabolism of the amino acid, methionine. In a healthy body, homocysteine is either recycled back into methionine or altered to another harmless substance in a process called methylation.

However, if there are insufficient B vitamins for the recycling process (methylation), it converts methionine (amino acid in red meat) into homocysteine instead of a usable form. Elevated levels of homocysteine contribute, big-time, to inflammation in the linings of blood vessels and the heart; endothelial inflammation seems to be a risk factor for afib. Cholesterol deposits amass to fill in the area damaged by inflammation… setting the stage for heart attack or stroke.

In addition to arteriosclerosis and atherosclerosis, homocysteine increases the tendency for blood to clot, increases collagen deposition in arteries and other blood vessels making the arteries less flexible and increasing blood pressure and accelerates aging of endothelial cells.

The process of methylation is critical and since space is limited here, I suggest you research the process on your own and understand it. A great reference is the book, Methyl Magic by Craig Cooney, Ph.D. who says:
"Methylation helps give life, and it can take it away. In fact, without methylation there would be no life at all." "In our bodies, methylation takes place more than a billion times a second."
A preview article by Dr. Cooney can be reviewed at [www.lef.org]

Natural approaches
B vitamins are important and easy to get from food – leafy green veggies, beans, legumes, freshly squeezed OJ, limit red meat to twice a week. Eliminate processed and packaged foods.

Supplementation includes B vitamins with emphasis on Folic Acid 400 mcg. daily, minimum of 3 mg. Vit. B 6, and 5 – 10 mcg. B12. Supplemental L-Methionine is also suggested with supervision. These are conservative recommendations…higher is more common.

10-15% of people are B-vitamin resistant, but respond to supplemental trimethylglycine (TMG) – 500 – 1000 mg. a day and recheck levels in 3 – 4 months.

Note: Niacin raises homocysteine as does theophylline, methotrexate and L-dopa. If you have a family history of heart disease, or are hypothyroid, have lupus or kidney disease, check your levels.

Safe Range:
High homocysteine is a serious health hazard. Protect your health and slow aging by keeping blood plasma levels below 10 micromolar and preferably below 7 micromolar. (http://www.methyl.org/researchupdates.html)


Cardiologist, Stephen Sinatra says “Generally, “normal” for homocysteine is anything between 5 and 15 micromoles per liter, but epidemiological evidence suggests that optimal levels are less than 8 mm/l. Population studies in the Mediterranean Basin (France and Spain) have low mortality from cardiovascular disease, with levels averaging 7 –8 mm/l. In countries with high mortality rates (Finland Scotland, Northern Ireland, Germany) homocysteine levels average 10 – 11 mm/l. He considers anything above 9 to be dangerous.” (Sinatra Health Report 3/01)


FIBRINOGEN
Is an independent risk factor and can indicate individual increased risk for heart disease in the absence of other indicators. While necessary for clotting when injured, a higher-than-normal level creates clumping blood.

It is influenced by genetic predisposition and high levels are enhanced by smoking and estrogen compounds as in birth control pills. Studies show a correlation between high fibrinogen concentrations and coronary artery calcification and conclude these to be markers for pre-clinical atherosclerosis- with stronger trends in women participants including younger women.

Ranges
Less than 300 mg/dL is considered favorable
More than 360 mg/dl is unfavorable.

Those with a family history of heart disease or coronary atherosclerosis must have fibrinogen levels checked.

Natural blood thinners – garlic, ginger, fish oil, Vitamin E, ginkgo biloba, bromelain – See Hans Book for details.

LIPOPROTEIN(a) [Lp(a)]
Is a cholesterol particle with an adhesive protein coating giving it sticky properties that cause inflammation and clogging of blood vessels because of its repair properties.

It is very effective UNLESS in the presence of a Vitamin C deficiency, and then, it is one of the most dangerous risk factors for atherosclerosis. Although it has been known for over 40 years, it isn’t common in screening tests.


What should your Lp(a) level be?
<10 mg/dL - acceptable
11-24 mg/dL -borderline high
>25 mg/dL - very high


NOTE: If your Lp (a) level is over 10 mg per deciliter (dL) of blood, you need to take action at once.
Lp(a) is entirely hereditary. Studies indicate people with the highest levels have 70% more heart attacks than with lower levels.

Modifying Lp(a) is very difficult but can be modified some with the following protocol which should ONLY be followed by those who have tested out high- as the doses of the supplements are high.
Vit. C 2- 4 grams
Q10 120 mg.
L-Carnitine 1 - 2 grams
Omega 3’s 1 -2 grams
L-lysine 500-1000 mg
L-proline 500-1000 mg.
No flush niacin - niacinamide 1 - 2 grams.
Eat fresh fish, reduce saturated fats, eliminate all hydrogenated fats; avoid soy products;
Exercise regularly. (Heart Sense 12/00)

Dr. Mercola’s comment:
Elevated levels of Lp(a) are frequently overlooked by traditional medicine as a cause of heart disease. Part of the reason why it is not looked for by traditional medicine is that they really do not have a good way to treat it. They have not discovered any drugs to lower Lp(a). The only thing that appears to work is the specific type of pharmacological nutrient manipulation discussed by Pauling. (www.mercola.com)


SERUM FERRITIN

Reflects iron stored in the body - excess iron is toxic and can injure every part of the body including the heart and brain.. and cause or contribute to arrhythmias.

Lab ranges 10-191 ng/ml. with a preferable below 100. (some reports now say 50)

Natural remedies are easy - just donate blood and keep checking the levels until within a normal range. Avoid supplements and foods containing added iron and limit intake of red meat.

High serum ferritin levels may be associated with inflammation, liver disease, megaloblastic anemia, hemolytic anemia, sideroblastic anemia, thalassemia, iron overload (hemochromatosis, hemosiderosis), malignant diseases including leukemia and malignant lymphoma. Very high levels indicate iron overload. Ferritin levels in hemochromatosis may be >1000 ng/mL. Increased serum ferritin may be a risk factor in primary hepatocellular carcinoma. [www.labcorp.com]

Serum ferritin levels, however, can be nonspecifically elevated in patients with inflammation and or liver disease, regardless of iron stores. This is attributed to hepatocellular leakage of ferritin from damaged cells.

Joint pain is the most common complaint of people with iron overload ( hemochromatosis). Other common symptoms include fatigue, lack of energy, abdominal pain, loss of sex drive, and heart problems. Symptoms tend to occur in men between the ages of 30 and 50 and in women over age 50. However, many people have no symptoms when they are diagnosed.

If the disease is not detected early and treated, iron may accumulate in body tissues and may eventually lead to serious problems such as
• arthritis
•liver disease, including an enlarged liver, cirrhosis, cancer, and liver failure
•damage to the pancreas, possibly causing diabetes
•heart abnormalities, such as irregular heart rhythms or congestive heart failure
•impotence
•early menopause
•abnormal pigmentation of the skin, making it look gray or bronze
•thyroid deficiency
•damage to the adrenal gland

Hemochromatosis is often undiagnosed and untreated. It is considered rare and doctors may not think to test for it. The initial symptoms can be diverse and vague and can mimic the symptoms of many other diseases.

Also, doctors may focus on the conditions caused by hemochromatosis--arthritis, liver disease, heart disease, or diabetes--rather than on the underlying iron overload. However, if the iron overload caused by hemochromatosis is diagnosed and treated before organ damage has occurred, a person can live a normal, healthy life.

OXIDIZED LDL
Oxidation of cholesterol is significant in the formation of cholesterol plaque leading to early stages of atherosclerosis. LDL cholesterol is the major culprit in that it builds up on arterial walls and becomes a problem when it is oxidized - known then as partially oxidized LDL.

This is caused by:
1. high triglycerides
2. low HDL levels
3. improper metabolism of blood fats because of inefficient fat metabolism -as in diabetes

Natural Remedies

-Ortho molecular doses of niacin B3 - the no-flush type ( supervision of MD)
-2 grams daily of Omega 3 essential fatty acids to increase HDL levels
-One baby aspirin every other day to reduce clotting factors
-1.5 grams daily of Acetyl L-carnitine in divided doses to reduce levels of blood fats by increasing the efficiency of transport to cell mitochondria where fat is burned for cellular energy.

This, along with CoQ10 which helps break down fat for ATP production. 100 mg. Q gels/day minimum.
-The tocotrienol form of Vitamin E has significantly greater antioxidant capability than regular tocopherol and lowers LDL cholesterol which the regular does not. Dosage is 50-100 mg daily. (www.drsinatra.com)

That’s it!.... congratulations and thanks if you made it to the end of this.

Forewarned is forearmed. Jackie

Wow...thanks Jackie! I appreciate the thorough and detailed response. I've browsed through this but I've bookmarked it to further study all the resources you've provided. I look forward to diving into it all. Thanks again!

Travis

Travis - As I mentioned in the PM... if you are concerned about using NK and want to limit doses, then consider taking the bedtime dose first as primary prevention for "stealth" clotting.


This is from page 12 of CR 39 on
PLASMINOGEN ACTIVATOR INHIBITOR 1 (PAI-1)
Plasminogen activator inhibitor (PAI-1) is the primary inhibitor of tPA and other plasminogen activators in the blood.

During fibrinolysis, tissue plasminogen activator (tPA) converts the inactive protein, plasminogen, into plasmin. Plasmin, in turn plays a critical role in fibrinolysis by degrading fibrin and also provides other localized protase activities.

Increased PAI-1 levels are associated with a number of atherosclerotic risk factors. PAI-1 has been shown to act as a prothrombic factor in both arterial and venous thromboembolic disorders. Increased levels are associated with an increased incidence of acute coronary syndrome and acute and chronic artery disease in patients who suffer re-stenosis after coronary angioplasty.

Of particular significance for this discussion is that increased PAI-1 levels may reduce the effectiveness of anti- thrombolytic therapy.(9)

There is a correlation between the circadian variation in the time of onset of myocardial infarction, with the highest incidence at about 8 a.m. and the circadian rhythm of plasma PAI-1 activity, which is also highest early in the morning (10)

The inactivation of PAI-1 is directly related to the enhancement of fibrinolysis.(11) Studies have shown nattokinase important in this mechanism.

The bottom line – there are elevated levels of PAI-1 at night and through the early morning. The most important dose will be in the evening before bed to last until around 8 a.m.

TPA-1 is a most interesting research project all on it’s own because of its role in fibrosis. This piece only touches on the one key issue for use when dosing with nattokinase.

(CR #39 on Nattokinase - [www.afibbers.org])


8) Lam, M., Heart Disease Prevention – A Complete Nutritional Approach. pp 4-5. C2004 www.Dr.Lam.com
9) PAI-1 [www.labcorp.com]
10) Collen, D., Role of Plasminogen System in Fibrin-Homeostasis and Tissue Remodeling, American Society of
Hematology, Hematology 2001.
11) Journal of Biological Chemistry “The Profibrinolytic Enzyme Subtilisin NAT Purified from Bacillus subtilis Cleaves
and Inactivates Plasminogen Activator Inhibitor Type 1, 2001. [www.jbc.org]

Jackie