just dropping in

Just dropping in to buy some Vitamin C from iHerb via this BB as I always do and good to see posters here that were helping people and myself when I went thru 4 years of struggling with this hideous affliction known as Afib. Hello Jackie, George N. Gill etc. I always check a few posts to see how things are shaping up in the Afib world with regards to better success rates 5 years after I managed to escape the nightmare after trying just about everything including 5 ablations.

Of the few posts I flicked through the one that really caught my eye was one from Marsh asking if iodine helps arrest AfIb. I brought this up maybe two years ago but there was very little response which I found a little disappointing as if I am correct the strongest drug for Afib is Amiodarone which is the only one that stopped my Afib and I tried them all. I couldn't live with the amiodarone side effects and I wanted to be totally free of depending on drugs for the rest of my life hence going the ablation route.

Again if my memory serves me correctly one of the main components of Amiodarone is IODINE in one form or another though I have never seen it mentioned in the posts but then again I only read one or two every now and again.

In the 4 or 5 years of reading almost every post on the BB I never saw a protocol for taking iodine to help relieve the AFib burden so the ones that may have tried it are very likely to be taking nowhere near enough to have an effect. Just like the RDA for Vitamin C is about 90 mg when really we should be taking something like 4000mg per day the RDA for iodine is way below what some people take without any ill affects.

I have included iodine tablets in my daily supplements which include Vitamin C, Potassium & Chelated Magnesium all washed down with at least I.5 ltr of 7pH Spring Water. Just tonight I have made my first 500ml of Lugols Iodine so the tablet form will be phased out. I will be starting at getting about 12mg of iodine per day and if all goes well I may well try a bit higher. I would note that I am not taking any of the suppliments specifically for keeping Afib at bay but primarily for general good health.

I would close by stating that I started looking at iodine about two years ago when my wife was found to be developing a goiter and her doctor in Vietnam said there's nothing we can do at the moment but when it gets bigger we will have to cut it out. That was not going to happen and sure enough I found iodine so I bought the iodine and low and behold when my wife went for her last yearly check-up the doc said the goiter had not progressed at all.

Goitre's/Thyroid/Afib/Thyroid/Amiodarone/Iodine, join the dots ;-)

Barry G.

Hello Barry - So good to see you posting!

About iodine and AF, one of the past posters (William of Canada) successfully used iodine to eliminate his Afib. He was a prolific poster so if you go back in the archives, you can find his posts there.

I've posted often about my own low iodine experience and now know it was contributory to my many health issues including Afib, but was totally ignored by all of my previous doctors until I was in the care of a Functional Medicine practitioner. These included fibrocystic breast disease, PCOS, uterine fibroids, hypothyroidism and enlarged thyroid plus nodules which are known to turn malignant eventually. None of my doctors or even the endocrinologists ever measured my iodine levels. In fact, I see an endocrinologist annually for a thyroid ultrasound and she still doesn’t know or care about iodine. After some of the nodules disappeared, she was puzzled and I told her it was because I had used iodine supplements for the previous year and she just looked puzzled..... Didn’t even ask questions. !!!

I was born and raised and still live in the goiter belt of NE Ohio. It should be common knowledge that it is appropriate to check for iodine deficiency in such patients and that practice would certainly have spared me a lot of misery, avoided numerous surgeries and probably the onset of AF. My levels were corrected long after the onset of AF but the damage had been done to the thyroid. The nodules are reduced now by 50% of the number and size compared to before I began treating with low dose iodine. At least I was spared removing that, too. I use low-dose iodine in a combination form that includes 2.5 mg molecular iodine, 2.5 mg sodium iodide and 1.25 mg potassium iodide...total 6.25 and I take that on MWF each week. Initially, I used 12.5 mg of this combo daily to try to 'catch up' which seemed to work well as indicated by the followup ultrasound.

I'd like to caution you that there are mixed opinions about the need to use high-dose iodine.. meaning 25 - 50 mg daily.
There are always quotes about Japanese people taking in so much iodine from seafood and seaweed that they don't have iodine-deficiency related health issues. The reality is that their daily intake amounts to very low dosing equivalencies.

One of the reliable resources I follow on iodine supplementation is Dr. Nikolas Hedberg who says in his book, The Thyroid Alternative:

A few medical physicians are purported to treat not only thyroid disorders but fibrocystic breast disease, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, prostate health and immune function with high doses of iodine.

The information that these physicians present is very intriguing but it appears that their original conclusions have gaping holes that must be accounted for. These physicians are promoting high doses of iodine in the range of 12.5-50.0 mg of iodine per day. This is based on research of the average daily intake of Japanese mainlanders. Unfortunately, the studies were misquoted thereby leaving no sound research to support such high doses of iodine. I would like to thank Dr. Jeff Moss for his exhaustive research on this topic. If you are a health care practitioner, please visit Dr. Moss's website and read the entire newsletter series on iodine which is the most exhaustive compendium ever compiled on iodine. It will help clarify how much iodine one should take, how much iodine is ingested by the Japanese, its potential negative side effects and how to test for iodine deficiency.

According to papers published by Aceves and Cann, the average daily dose of iodine intake by Japanese is 5,280 micrograms/day or 5.28 mg/day.22,23 Also, an FAO/WHO world report states that the average daily intake of iodine by the Japanese is in the range of two to three milligrams per day.24

Nagataki states in a recent paper: "The average of dietary iodine intake due to the ingestion of seaweeds is 1.2 mg/day in Japan."25 Contrary to what some medical physicians have led us to believe, experts in Japan do agree that iodine in excess can be detrimental and the average daily dose of 12 mg of iodine per day is false.

What Form of Iodine is Best?
Iodine and iodide have different effects in the body as each one has high affinities for certain glands. Let's clarify these points. Iodide is the most effective form of iodine for the thyroid gland itself. Molecular iodine is the most effective form of iodine for optimal breast health and for the treatment of fibrocystic breasts. We use a product that is a combination of iodine and iodide which contains 1.8 mg per drop.

Iodine status can be measured by performing a 24-hour urine collection. This test is done without taking any iodine as some practitioners are promoting. This is an accurate test unlike the iodine patch test. Painting iodine on the skin and recording how long it takes for the stain to go away has no validity whatsoever for iodine status.

More here: [www.drhedberg.com]
The Thyroid Alternative [www.amazon.com]

Hope this helps, Barry. Again, good to "hear" from you.

Best to you,
Jackie

Good to hear from you Barry and glad to hear things are doing well! And thank you Jackie for the solid links on Iodine intake. I agree too that because far larger than the standard minuscule RDA for Iodine is needed to impact health and thyroid function positively, that does not at all mean that the sky is the limit on upper-end doses and for a number of conditions and constitutions 12mg/ day and higher can definitely produce toxic side effects over time.

Dr Thierry Hertoghe is very familiar with Iodine dosing and very often prescribes Lugols to his patients. Dr Hertoghe's great-grandfather was the world's first endocrinologist to write a prescription in 1881 in Belgium for what now would be called animal-based desiccated thyroid ( such as Armour, ERFA etc), and whose grandfather was a world famous thyroid-oligist in the first half of the 1900s, his father following suit as a long-time colleague and European counterpart of US thyroid expert Dr Broda Barnes, and now Thierry and his sister are both 4th generation and world renowned bio-identical hormone replacement endocrinologist.

I know Dr Hertoghe very well, and work with him often at conferences in the US and Belgium ( or used too before taking over this website and newsletter :-) I do still try to go to at least one BHRT/Functional/Integrative medicine conference a year to keep up with all the latest in this dynamic and broad field that has so much to offer all of us. And keeping up with all the new tips and insights on Self-health care and trying to age more gracefully while minimizing the many dreaded age-related co-morbidities that we are all so prone too as the clock continues to tick along

But with regard to Iodine intake, this rush to take more and more should be done very carefully and not indefinitely at all! Ive heard and seen enough problems from taking too much Iodine too over time to think that just adding more is always a good thing for everyone.

Dr Hertoghe initially ramped me up slowly on Lugols from 1 drop of 5% (roughly 2.5mg of Iodine and 3.75mg of Potassium Iodide) and up to 4 drops which is around 25mg of total Iodine/Iodide combo and kept me there for around 5 months after I first began treatment with him years ago in Brussels. Then, based on symptoms and 24 hour urine and other testing as well as comprehensive thyroid labs and most importantly thyroid signs and symptoms since I had a moderate case of hypothyroidism to start with, he slowly adapted my Lugols dose downward.

I got my Free T3 from 2.4 to 3.6 which is a good level for a guy my size and my Free T4 was up to 1.3 which is still a shade lower than optimum even with low dose HC to address my chronic low adrenal output and help counter my significant Low T4 syndrome originally which shows normal range FT3 and a borderline low to frankly low FT4 due to adrenal dysfunctions impact on thyroid function.

Anyway, I don't need any thyroid hormone meds now and have over time reduced my Lugols to only 1 drop a day and feel good for the effort. Ramping up when you are deepening iodine deficient can really help, but do so slowly to prevent knocking off any bromide elements that might be binding to and occupying your T3 receptors too quickly and causing a rebound problem.

People who have adrenal dysfunction need to be especially careful about overdoing on Iodine and getting a ramp up of T3 too high can lead to an adrenal/cortisol crash for sure.
And it is my contention that a large number of Afibbers have some degree of challenged adrenal function as well.

Iodine is and often can be a very valuable component to achieve and maintain overall good health, but treat it with respect and partner with an experienced physician to guide your use and not just try to imagine it is a overall cure-all and the more taken the better in all cases. I've found that rarely are any single elements, no matter how beneficial overall, are really one step cure-alls as so often such things get promoted on the internet by both well-meaning and not so well-intentioned websites.

Shannon



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2015 10:44PM by Shannon.

Thanks Shannon for reminding about adrenal function. Since I initially tested as having adrenal burnout, we focused first on stabilizing that and then started on increasing iodine supplementation from the microgram doses I was on to milligram dosing.

As a matter of interest, over time, my thyroid panels typically held in the normal range... but I still raged with symptoms of hypothyroidism. Those seemed to improve slightly with the increased iodine along with Armour thyroid hormone.
Then, after my bout of Afib and Aflutter flareups in 2014, my FM MD told me to stop taking the Armour as physicians are apparently cautioned not to prescribe for 'senior' or elderly patients over the age of 70...and I was then, 77. My dose then of Armour was only 15 mg three times a week so it was minor... and that kept the labs in normal range, but as we know, the labs don't always reflect 'hypo' symptoms and mine certainly did not. But I did stop the Armour as directed. (I also have the book, by Datis Kharrazian, Why Do I Still Have Thyroid Symptoms? when My Lab Tests are Normal: a Revolutionary Breakthrough in Understanding Hashimoto's Disease and Hypothyroidism. and several others thyroid experts but not many seem to address the arrhythmia complication... and especially in the elderly.

And for a while, while I managed to 'hold' the lab numbers with just the supplemental iodine and both thyroid and adrenal support supplemental nutrients but then I began feeling increased 'hypo' symptoms. This makes me nervous because of my past history with hypo- thyroidism and the onset of AF.

Glad also that you bring up the very important Broda Barnes' classic findings in his book, Hypothyroidism, The Unsuspected Illness. When I recently tracked my basal temperature according to his directions... ie, axillary reading before getting out of bed, (etc), my temperature was consistently in the range of 96.4 - 96.8...for about 3 weeks of tracking ...and remains that way today. So, my FM MD suggested using a Biotics glandular product called GTA which has 5 mg of thyroid glandular/capsule. I have been dosing with that very slowly and cautiously in the hope that I can eliminate some of the 'hypo' symptoms...the most dramatic of which is internal cold and cold legs and feet... even when the overall temperature is not chilly or outright cold.

The age factor probably is going to be a Catch 22 scenario, but I'm hoping that with time, I am able to get close to normal thyroid function AND avoid further heart activity.

I'm elaborating more on this because it's my experience with 4 endocrinologists, 2 Internists, and a Family Practice MD from long ago, that doctors treating for thyroid imbalances aren't typically clued in to the adrenal problems, the iodine deficiency potential or the arrhythmia connection... unless is an obvious case of 'hyper' thyroidism or thyroid storm.

Thankfully, now that functional or restorative medicine is gaining popularity and accessibility, we have some hope.

Jackie

Hi Jackie /Shannon.

Thanks for your information regarding over dozing on iodine but as you may know I have been in the Afib battle since being diagnosed in July 2006 so I have quite a few tee-shirts of been there done that but it is important that your points are picked up by any newcomer to the Afib world who may think there is a quick way out of this journey. As a regular poster here used to say - Wil Schumann- 'you walk thru the door of Afib and that door slams shut behind you' or words to that effect. I have never forgot those words hence although free of AF for around 5 years now I will never let my guard down.
Jackie after countless cross referencing anything I pick up on regarding Afib or heath in general I am aware that where you have lived all your life is the Goitre Belt of America and that simply adding iodine to table salt in the 1920's rectified the problem of low iodine intake for the peoples of that part of the US and the goitre problem kind of disappeared however I believe in the 1960's iodine was replaced by bromide - a poison?? - in the food supply in the US and since then the rate of breast cancer has shot thru the roof - the female breast has the second main concentration of iodine in the body after the thyroid and by all accounts bromide displaces iodine.
Shannon thanks for your 'warning' of not rushing into the iodine issue but rest assured I will not be taking unnecessary risks with the iodine as I have stated I am not fighting anything at the moment due to excellent heath at 66 years of age. I understand that the 'warning' helps to serve others who may be getting disheartened in the battle with Afib.

Basically to any newbies I am a suck it and see kind guy and although I did not mention it in my earlier posts I do take Borax/Boron 20 Mules washing powder as a defence against arthritis and add Baking soda washing powder to raise my spring water pH from 7pH to 8.5pH and I am still here a figure of health. Many long stories, not conventional but it all works.

Could go on for ages but will finish by saying the Lugols I made last night is best guess a solution at 15% which is very high depending on which scale is used, if there is one???. Iodine is still a mystery apparently. In the US you can now only buy 2% solution which is probably very weak and suits BIG PHARM as it doesn't do the job. Bottom line - pun intended - is that I always test things out on myself and to day I tested my Lugols on a rash that has persisted for the last few years just below my rear waistline and all that remains 8 hours later is a light brown mark left by the iodine. Obviously better to just accept my word on this ;-)

There is more to this iodine deficiency than meets the eye.
Barry G.

Shannon,

Can we assume that when you gave the amount of Iodine in 2% Lugols you actually meant 12%?

No discussion on iodine forms and dosing is complete without referencing Dr. Mark Sircus, AC OMD DMP

[drsircus.com]
[drsircus.com]
[www.altcancer.com]

Hi Barry, good to hear from you.

Article in today's Guardian newspaper about the importance of iodine, especially for pregnant women:

[www.theguardian.com]

Gill

Hi Barry,

If this has been talked before, I apologize. Personally, I've found this video at the beginning of my study on Iodine and found it very useful:
Dr Jorge D. Flechas, MD - Whole Body Iodine Sufficiency

Also, here I've found useful articles too. And some talkshows of Phil Thomas.
Iodine articles
Now, I am still skeptical of the difference (if any) between Nascent Iodine and Atomic/Detoxified Iodine - aka both or just one of them Edgar Cayce recipe. One or more of the talk shows with Phil Thomas explain a bit of history with these two products and the people behind it (the second product is his, if I recall). I personally have Detoxified Iodine and I can say that I took drops of it with or without MSM in water and usually the fastest reach inside the body, especially in the brain is with water where MSM (organic sulfur) was added.

One thing that stirred me up was a case of a muscle degeneration disorder where Phil pinpointed that the cause may be heavy metal intoxication and Iodine can be of great help in this case. It's not the first time I heard of heavy metal intoxication as being cause of different diseases. But it struck me that there are things that hit us out of nowhere and kill us fast - a great ballet dancer with such a degeneration disorder died without knowing why and how he got ill so fast and died few months after being diagnosed...

Andrea

Hi Gill, good to see you are still posting.

I have read the artical in the Guardian and much as I expected most people are totally unaware of the requirement of iodine. Surely BIG PHARM know all about it yet nothing seems to be being done especially in the case of pregnant women.

All,

Taking into consideration the good advice from both Jackie and Shannon regarding people not rushing to jump on the iodine waggon for AFib I would just add I was just checking out websites for information on iodine dosages, I cross reference things to death, and the first one I came across had a chart and give a list of dosages for illnesses in alphabetical order and there it was at No2 on the list i.e. Atrial Fibrillation......


Atrial Fibrillation /Arrhythmias

Build from 1 up to 5 drops

Then 1-2 drops for maintenance

A gradual build-up, holding each new dose level for a few days and monitoring for any problems is advised, until your heart begins to beat smoothly, at which point your body is receiving sufficient iodine (for most people this is around 9-30mg). Stay at this dose for 3 months, then begin to cut back each week. If you begin to feel your heart act up again, you have gone past your maintenance dose - Generally, this is around 3-12 mg.



Google this website - Lugol's Dosage Chart Iodine - Heal Yourself At Home.

Again I would mention Jackie and Shannons advice there is probably no one easy way out of AFib so everyone must use their own due diilligence when picking up things on the internet. In this case the iodine is Lugols 5% (mine is 15%) not one of the new copy 'iodines' on the supermarket shelf. That said if I still suffered from AF I would be taking Lugol's as soon as I could get my hands on it.

Barry G.

Hi Andrea.

I will check out the websites later and reply if relevant, I'm at work now.

Barry G.

Sam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Shannon,
>
> Can we assume that when you gave the amount of
> Iodine in 2% Lugols you actually meant 12%?


Thanks Sam, that was my mistake .. I had 5% Lugols (not 2%) and the 5% gives the stated levels of 2.5mg of Iodine and 3.75m g of Iodide for a total of 6.25mg per drop ... that 2% was just a late night typo before bed

I corrected the mistake in the my original post above.

Cheers!
Shannon

Barry - I'm going to be posting more from the "other camp" on higher dosing of iodine and why... but I have been sidetracked by a couple of personal issues.

Hopefully, you will check back here in a day or two which should give me time to pull together some notes from a conference call on the iodine topic presented by one of the members of the well-known iodine researchers/practitioners... group, namely: Drs. Abraham, Flechas, Hakala and Brownstein. There are some very interesting and valuable points that were discussed and should be of interest to all.... I just need some time to organize my notes into a readable post.

Jackie