shannon

Shannon:

I came from my pharmacy with my script, the one that Dr. Brownstein wrote for me, his writing was not very clear, the pharmacist gave me Prednisone, what I had before from my Ortho was Prednisolone. My question are these different and should I not take the prednisone--what I have read in Dr Brownsteins book and in your post was to take Hydrocortisone, are these drugs all different. The Pharmacist scarced the heck out of me, he told of all kinds of things that can happen to me on this drug.

Is 4 mg. a physiologic dose? Thank you

Liz

Hey Liz,

Not sure if this will help you. I had a cat on Prednisolone. My understanding is that humans can take Prednisone and make Prednisolone from it. The cat can not. Her liquid med was 10mg/ml and she got 0.4 ml/day (equal to 4 mg/day). It would seem your dose is very small compared to that for the 7 pound cat.

George

Hi George:

How long was your cat on it and did it help her---it seems to me that 4mg. is a small dose. I didn't know that about Prednisolone/prednisone, I wish doctors would write more clearly.

That was a small cat.

Liz

Liz,

If memory serves me right, I put her on it at 14 for "cat asthma." She lived to about seventeen (she was maybe 9 pounds in her prime). I'd taken her in as a stray when she was about 9 months. It did keep her from coughing. I could not tell any side effects. As it was a liquid, I played around with the dose, always trying for the minimum effective dose. I think there were times I had it down to 2.5 mg. I'm guessing 4 mg is a low dose for you, maybe not for the cat. She ultimately passed as kindey illness progressed for her, which is pretty common in older cats.

From <[www.drugs.com]
"Oral: 5 to 60 mg per day in divided doses 1 to 4 times/day."

George

4mg is a low dose, not saying it still won't cause side effects, but some poeple take as much as 50mg/day.
Hydrocortisone is the mildest of the drugs in the "Glucocorticiod family" aka Steriod Anti-imflammatories.
Prednisone is quite abit more potent that Hydrocortisone.
Prednisolone is just what Prednisone breaks down into, as it metabolizes.

The question here is whether taking 4mg/day of Prednisone is enough to permently weaken your bodies ability to produce its own supply of Prednisone. (Prednisone is called Cortisol in the body).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2015 03:44AM by The Anti-Fib.

Hi Liz,

Prednisolone does not require any conversion as it is the direct usable form of the drug ... Hence it is preferred over Prednisone as not all people convert Prednisone into Prednisolone efficiently.

The low dose you are in is equal to a normal physiologic dose of bio-indentical Cortisol called Hydrocortisone (HC) which is 100% true cortisol exactly the same biochemical your body makes. Prednisilone is very close to HC in structure with ine small synthetically applied modification to extend its half life and potency from 8-12 hours for HC up to 18-36 hours for Prednisolone/Prednisone and Methylprednisolone (Medrol).

Ideally, for primarily low adrenal output replacement and not for serious inflammatory conditions, one would want Hydrocortisone as your body can 100% metabolize this true cortisol exactly like mother nature and the body does and intends. But it's short half life .... (note: HCs effective clinical effect per dose can be as low as 3hrs but more typically is 4 to 6hrs in most people with a half life listed optimistically as 8 to 12 hours.

This means that someone with perfect digestion and a modest sized build could replace all of their own endogenous cortisol production with between 20mg to 25mg a day of HC for an average size women, and 25 to 35mg for average size men . Note, however, that not many in our age have perfect digestion, and thus many older folks and younger people too with dysbiosis and other absorption issues, require anywhere from 30mg to 60mg (as a daily maintenance dose maximum) of HC to eliminate all clinical symptoms of low cortisol ... which are many and often misdiagnosed.

It is absolutely imperative that anyone taking this class of adrenal hormone-like meds must also take a corresponding dose of DHEA bioidentical hormone ... Preferably sublingual form as this form much more directly boosts serum DHEA-Sulfate (by far the best blood test for confirming DHEA levels in serum) making it far easier to keep track of your true levels in conjunction with tracking clinical signs and symptoms. Keep in mind that with sublingual DHEA you should also take your full daily dose broken into divided doses, just along with and at the same time as the Hydrocortisone divided doses, ideally, in order to best match the bodies own simultaneous production of both DHEA and Cortisol in rhythmic pulses across the day with production peaking in the 7am time frame, generally, and slowly declining throughout the day into reaching a nadir around 10-11pm and then production of both stays low through the night until the breaking dawn rise begins around 4am peaking around 7am depending on one's individually circadian rhythm pattern which tend to only have slight variations in otherwise healthy young adults with normal sleep/wake patterns.

DHEA is the companion hormone to cortisol and is natures way of counteracting most all of the potential catabolic effects of glucocorticoid hormones (catabolic = tissue breakdown effects for conversion into energy and immune factors) via DHEA's mild anabolic actions (anabolic = tissue/cellular building, restoration and repair).

Liz, with Dr Brownstein you are in good hands in this area, but the vast majority of allopathic MD's are only familiar with the real harm that can come from a grossly imbalanced use of large supra-physiogic doses of synthetic derivatives of cortisol, and even from HC itself which is bioidentical cortisol, not to mention the stronger and longer acting synthetic glucocorticoid like meds ranging from close cortisol cousins like Prenisolone to very powerful long acting Dexamethasone .

Predisolone and Methylprednisolone (Medrol) being these closest cousins to true bioidentical Cortisol/Hydrocortisone and when taken in small doses such as 4mg for Prednisone/Prenisolone that is equal to 20mg of HC or bio-indentical endogenous cortisol.

Alas, most docs simply have no clue and have never been trained at all how to protect against the unwanted excess catabolic effects of lower to moderate doses of HC and even low doses of Prednisolone or Medrol as well for a temporary time period typically). This is the case still, even though there are thousands of references in the peer-reviewed literature illustrating this protective effect of combining lower physiologic doses of cortisol hormones while insuring the person has adequate anabolic hormone production and clinical benefit from that anabolic balance.

This mistaken oversight started back in the 1940's with the initial otherwise excellent research on 'Compound F' which is what they initially called Hydrocortisone. Dr Jeffries who did a great job with the tools and knowledge at that early time, discovered a lot about how cortisol and HC work. But he never was able to connect the dots back to the key co-producton of DHEA and other anabolic hormones as a protective mechanism against excess catabolism from unprotected and excessive doses of HC or endogenous cortisol run amok.

It wasn't until much later with the advent of more progressive endocrinology that the connection started to be made by going back to basic physiology and trying to mimic how the body works. This included taking into account all anabolic levels whether from endogenous anabolic hormone production and/or from exogenously supplied replacement hormones using preferably bioidentical forms of these anabolic hormones or when needed.

As noted above, the closest cousins to bioidentical forms of cortisol such as Prednisilone and Methyl-prednisilone are primarily used for people with significant inflammatory conditions ... preferably the person would only have to use these longer acting cortisol like synthetics for a relatively short time to reduce an inflammatory crisis, all the while adding in proportional doses of DHEA , and/or other anabolic hormones that are also found deficient in the patient. Once the main inflammatory condition subsides, if that was the main reason for the prescription of the longer acting meds, then the still cortisol-deficient person should switch back to normal physiologic dosing with using daily divided doses of HC while always continuing DHEA balancing doses as well as restoring other vital deficient anabolic hormones as needed.

But Liz the alarm bells your pharmacist rang are 100% due to the very real dangers of overuse of large supra-physiologic doses of glucocorticoid-like hormone drugs for a long period without any counterbalancing anabolic hormones at all. Most all of these people who the studies on large anti-inflammatory doses of adrenal steroids are based on also were in our general age group from mid 40s to 90s and most had very low levels of their own endogenous anabolic hormones left. So when they were suddenly bombed with huge doses or what was felt in the 1940s and early 1950s were these new wonder drugs that would cure nearly everything, at first things seemed very promising as people were getting much better from serious RA and other inflammatory conditions, but soon the flip side hit wit ha vengeance as the catabolic side effects started to set in and people were seriously harmed by this unprotected and very unbalanced use of very powerful synthetic hormone drugs for take for too long.

The case is entirely different when using HC or even short term the milder close cousins to HC along with adequate anabolic hormone restoration at the same time. There is a real role for using stronger doses of the synthetics for shorter terms for some conditions, but always taking the smallest effective dose possible with proper anabolic counterbalance..

HC when used in this way, and with well balanced physiological doses of supporting anabolic hormones the combination of which are essential for robust good health, is truly safe to take for life, if one can no longer produce sufficient levels of their own cortisol for good health. And switch back to the HC from Prednisolone as soon as the inflammatory condition improves and try to maintain the improvement with the combo of Sufficient HC and proportional DHEA.

Certainly not all people with mild to low moderate cortisol insufficiency need to be on HC, as there are other also natural steps toward boosting again once adrenal output, although these herbal and nutrient and stress reduction based methods are typically far more successful in younger people from the mid 40s on down to the teens where only people with true Addisons disease ( near total adrenal failure to produce cortisol and aldosterone and to a large degree DHEA when it the primary form of adrenal insufficiency. Secondary adrenal insufficient patients cannot produce cortisol in sufficient amounts to sustain life for long without taking HC but they can produce aldosterone and some degree of DHEA though.

A third form of adrenal insufficiency called Central cortisol insufficiency is what most older folks with acquired low cortisol is due too and it is dramatically more common than the first two forms which are often from an autoimmune dysfunction. Central cortisol insufficiency is still almost universally overlooked by much of allopathic medicine which rarely teaches the distinction. Although thankfully, that is starting to change.

For more on this read this well though out reference: Safe uses of Cortisol - the Modern method

Due to HCs shorter half life, for more acute inflammatory conditions the longer acting close relatives in Predinisione (only if you have normal to low blood pressure, normal glucose and are not prone to easy edema) or Medrol ( Methylprednisilone ...mainly for those with borderline to frankly high BP, insulin resistence/ diabetes, prone to water retention of edema do much better usually on Medrol).

Again most folks with low enough natural cortisol production to warrant needling to take HC daily for good can use these stronger versions temporarily (typically 3months and no more than 6 months to a year on the outside) for difficult inflammatory conditions, before getting enough reduction in inflammation to allow switching back to only low dose HC daily plus DHEA for maintenance.

Keep in mind that since 20mg daily HC is equal to 5mg of Prednisilone/Prednisone ... while the same 20mg HC/cortisol is = to 4mg of Medrol. Thus, every milligram of Medrol equals 5mg of HC and each 1mg of Prenusilone equals 4mg HC/cortisol.

To many otherwise excellent functional med docs are still adhering to the cookie cutter dosing of only 20mg of HC per day as being the limit thry give their patients and do a large number only get partial relief, they must learn to consider the digestion/assimilation of the person and scvount for the additional mildly suppressive effects on endogenous cortisol by those taking thyroid hormone as well, since adrenal/thyroid dysfunction are so commonly found together, and thus adjust HC doses appropriated somewhat higher in the 30mg to 60mg maximum range for HC while insuring full anabolic hormone protection is on board both clinically and via periodic regular testing.

You can bounce all this off of Dr Brownstein too if you wish Liz, as this is textbook proper hormone replacement strategy used by the most experienced endocrinologist and BHRT MDs in the world.

Cheers!
Shannon



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2015 02:45PM by Shannon.

PS Liz, PM me with your phone number and where you live (time zone) and we can talk about a few more details and points you should know for how to monitor and test your HC doses long term to insure you are staying in a safe but effective level of HC supported by DHEA and other anabolic hormones as needed.

Shannon

Anti-Afib,

Low dose prednisolone wont permanently impair adrenal function which will recover gradually even when stopping cold turkey ... although that is never advised and can be dangerous for those with little to no adrenal reserve at all ... You wont feel great when stopping a long term even modest dose suddenly, instead of tapering off as instructed, but it wont hurt you long term and will not cause permanent suppression as can happen with long term use of very large doses when suddenly stopping.

Also, normal physiologic range HC or bio-identical cortisol definitely will not cause any permanent suppression. In any event, a person would only take either HC or Prednisolone if they were insufficient in their own production and/or had a most severe anti-inflammatory condition of a chronic nature .. as opposed to having an injury like a bad burn or some such thing where the dose would be short term by design .... But many chronic inflammatory conditions are clear refections, in most cases, of a dysfunctional cortisol production system to begin with.

If one is not getting enough cortisol daily for sustaining good health, it only makes sense to replace what is missing, just like with insulin, in the lowest dose necessary to fully compensate for the loss. Plus, when compensating too by insuring adequate anabolic hormone production or exogenous replacement of said anabolic hormones, like DHEA, testosterone, estradiol in women, melatonin and growth hormone as examples of anabolic hormones we depend on every day, at least when the body can't cut it anymore on that front either its wise to add both side of the coin to the equation.

Shannon



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2015 04:23PM by Shannon.

FWIW, my wife, when prescribed steroids for allergies, went itno what is called "steroid rage" as did I. It tooks years of psychiatric Rx and other help to get her through that. She still sees a Rx psychiatrist.

I started going around the house doing crazy things. My wife thought it was CO poisoning and called the paramedics.

Neither of us will take any steriod.

This is not unusual, and is a well-known but often forgotten sude-effect.

I have read that steroids can cause rage., could you tell me what amount of mg. did you take and for how long. The thing is the stuff works.

Liz

Denver - Your comments remind me of my observations with my dental hygiene patients and happenings in with their medical histories over a span of 20+ years.

I had many occasions to hear about their reactions to steroids prescribed for all sorts of ailments. Even light doses seem to cause complications in certain individuals. For short-term use, it didn't seem to be as much of a concern but for long term use, it can certainly cause many problems. I never saw any patient who thought taking any form of a steroid, long-term, was a 'great' thing because of the side effects.

Jackie

Elizabeth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have read that steroids can cause rage., could
> you tell me what amount of mg. did you take and
> for how long. The thing is the stuff works.
>
> Liz

Sorry, too long ago. However, it was not much for either of us - for me, just a few pills. When she finally got to a good psychiatrist and described her symptoms, he immediately asked - "What meds are you on?" He knew immediately it was the steroids.

It does not happen to all or even many people. Just be aware of it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2015 04:12PM by dnvrfox.

I have had reactions with injections, Kenalog in particular. I guess sometimes the drug gets directly into the bloodstream, and thats what causes it. Sounds like if you get a reaction from pills, than it means your taking way too much for your system.

Shannon:

Where are you getting your info about the safety of Cortisol replacement?
I have had borderline low A.M. levels consistently at around 8, and I had an inflammatory issue going on, and I have considered trying some sort of replacement strategy, but both Endo's I went to said that my levels weren't low enough to treat. Is there not alot of differnce of opinion on what defines a treatable case of low Corisol production?

Also I recently got 2 prenisode injections in my Heel, the 1st was 20mg, and the 2nd 40mg 3 weeks later. I am thinking that I got a little heavier around the waist, and my physique is a little less refined, as I am still active and lift weights, I am about 5'11 195, so I can notice small changes by looking in the mirror. Can I get the weight gain around the torso, and puffy "moon-face" from only several injections?, and if so how long would this last. Maybe there is no exact answer, but maybe I get an idea of what is normal.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2015 06:00PM by The Anti-Fib.

The Anti-Fib Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have had reactions with injections, Kenalog in
> particular. I guess sometimes the drug gets
> directly into the bloodstream, and thats what
> causes it. Sounds like if you get a reaction from
> pills, than it means your taking way too much for
> your system.

In my wife's case, the prescribed steroids made a change in her physiology long after she stopped the steroids, of which she took very little. It is not justa "reaction" from a pill.

But, I am obviously not making my point very clearly, so I will desist. It is not too germane anyway.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2015 06:32PM by dnvrfox.

dnvrfox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FWIW, my wife, when prescribed steroids for
> allergies, went itno what is called "steroid rage"
> as did I. It tooks years of psychiatric Rx and
> other help to get her through that. She still
> sees a Rx psychiatrist.
>
> I started going around the house doing crazy
> things. My wife thought it was CO poisoning and
> called the paramedics.
>
> Neither of us will take any steriod.
>
> This is not unusual, and is a well-known but often
> forgotten sude-effect.

What the hell are saying, that your wife took several Prednisone pills, then went into Roid-Rage, and then as a result of that trauma has had to undergo Psychaitric treatment for years? The Roid-Rage only lasts as long as the drug is in your system, though other effects may linger. Wow both of you had extreme reactions!

I as well have other have noticed increase in energy and well being as well as increased Libido, as the added cortisol, frees up your body to make more of the sex-hormones. In this "Steriod Rage you are describing, was your sex-drives affected?

Anti-AFIB, DenverFox, Jackie, Elizabeth,

'Roid-Rage', while it can and does happen at times from overdoses for that person of mostly large supra-physiologic doses of synthetic anabolic or adrenal steroid hormone-like drugs, it simply does not happen with smaller physiologic doses of Hydrocortisone which I must emphasize once again for clarity and distinction is pure Bio-identical cortisol chemically indistinguishable from your very own cortisol that is sustaining each of our lives this very moment.

At some point, society must start moving away from demonizing the word 'steroids' which not a single one of us would be able to function or survive at all without, in at least barely functional levels, if we were to suddenly find our bodies bereft of those life giving biochemicals entirely. That is the first order of business before we can move past the very understandable knee-jerk reactions we often see in the press, based on incomplete and misleading misunderstandings of just how these substances work in our bodies, and again, it is entirely understandable why the majority of us have inherited such jaded opinions about these drugs, and often rightfully so, due to how the press and even well-meaning but imprecise physicians toss around the term in such pejorative terms, as well as from how many of us have experienced the very same unwanted side effects of excessive doses of largely synthetic derivatives of the true bio-identical biochemicals they are loosely based on.

Its an unfortunate situation, but one that is slowly improving with better education.

While HC is by far the preferred BHRT for low cortisol replacement, the typical side effects you three mention above no doubt mostly from synthetics, would be vanishingly rare as well from similar small doses of prednisolone or methylprednisolone in the 4mg to 6mg per day range .. and this is even without any of the very important DHEA and/or other anabolic hormone counterbalancing added in along with such a prescription to help reduce such catabolic side effects of mostly synthetic based hormones. It can happen with synthetics in particular, but usually that is when there is not adequate counterbalance. You do want to take these even these some what safer synthetics for the shortest required time in any event.

You can also get such excessive dose side effects from super huge overdoses of testosterone over time, especially when the person already has an adequate level of these endogenous 'steroids' in their own systems, as do so many young athletes whose illegal use of these hormones to gain an edge in sports competition, usually in doses Far larger than even a deeply deficient person would require for simple replacement levels,

A big part of the problem is that doctors are typically only trained in medical school about what excessive 'synthetic' steroid hormone usage looks like and the many unwanted side effects as we have all heard about, and many of us have seen first or second hand. Until relatively recently, there was almost no emphasis at all on what symptoms of declining optimal levels of these hormones look like in the patient, except briefly in passing during Med school. All the emphasis is placed on scaring young physicians away from too liberal use of powerful anti-inflammatory doses of mostly synthetic versions of these drugs, and very rightly so!

In any event, Anti-AFIB, Ive attended very many AMA sponsored and certified BHRT medical and fellowship training conferences in which existing MDs from all over the world attend for re-education about how the endocrine system really works in more detail, and about the wisdom of first trying to restore a natural optimal balance of largely 'bio-identical' versions of our very own hormones when they are found to be dysfunctionally low (or high in the case of TSH when there is hypothyroidism) , first and foremost, before resorting either to a host of symptom controls drugs that they had been trained to use their entire medical careers to treat what they now learn are, for the most part, largely clear signs and symptoms of one or more of these critically important endogenous biochemicals that have become deficient over time from aging, poor diet, toxicities, excess stress etc.

Over the years I have seen literally thousands of physicians who have come for retraining and return for more in-depth courses and I have been consistently struck how many come at first out of curiosity or because they have seen or heard from fellow MDs who have seen the light and becomes fellowship certified themselves what a positive impact these protocols have had on their patients over the years compared to the old schooled narrow view of endocrinology which only recognizes a problem ( at least for adrenal and to a degree thyroid dysfunction, only when there is near total failure of cortisol production, for example.

Time and time again, I have seen a good number of by the old school book Endos, in particular, whose speciality society tends to be amongst the most rigid, controlling and hide-bound among medical specialties .. at least this is what I am told, verbatim, by so many 'reformed' and more enlightened endocrinologist themselves, once they have seen the light and begun to broaden their vision and tool kit for helping a far larger number of their patients who, previously they would just give prozac, xanax, ambien, ritalin, and viagra, etc etc, to mask and placate their patients coming to them for the many clear signs and symptoms of hormonal and neurotransmitter dysfunction, but for which their blood tests did not indicate near total failure of het gland, even when on the very low end of 'normal' range, so that must mean they their hormone levels are perfectly fine and it must be a deficiency in prozax, xanax, or ambien etc etc the patient is suffering from.

In any event, I have seem far too may skeptical and questioning Endo's come to these conferences and have everyone of their doubts and questions which had been ingrained int their thinking from their medical school training, only to see them transform over several days to recognizing the common sense and the huge body of peer-reviewed evidence presented at these conferences often by other world renowned Endo's supporting these more inclusive and more progressive insight on their own specialty.

I have yet to see one Endo who came to these conferences who was anything other than at least far more open minded and willing to at least acknowledge the protocols made sense, after even a 4 days conference. And so often those that, really hear the message and begin adopting those protocols in their own proactive become the most avid and enthusiastic proponents at future similar conferences and symposiums, after going home and seeing first hand the validity and real progress their patients have made when using these well developed protocols compared to their previous standard of care.

That being said, I do want to underscore too that all the cautions and concerns about overuse of larger supraphysiologic doses of any steroid-like hormone, especially synthetic ones that cause the lions share of the problems are valid and very real. Its is not for nothing that otherwise very smart physicians have become convinced that their view of these agents is the only right one.

Indeed, I don't know any enlightened Endo's who would advocate long term indefinite use of stronger synthetic steroids in larger doses, and especially not without optimal range anabolic hormone restoration, if needed, for the patient.

But the story for small physiologic dose of hydrocortisone (HC), backed by robust optimal range anabolic hormone levels in the body, is very diferent, and this protocol when carefully followed and understood with a skilled physician working with you, will NOT cause the kind of rightly feared side effects DenverFox, Anti-AFIB and Jackie mention above .. even when taken for very long term periods with proper monitoring, surveillance and training by the patient as well in how to spot any signs or symptoms of overdose, these protocols can, when required for restoring better health, be done safely longer term.

Nevertheless, in every case, the goal is to use the smallest dose of HC required for eliminating or minimizing deficiency symptoms and physical signs, and for the shortest time required to give exhausted depleted adrenals a good rest from the onslaught of daily stress demands of all kinds. The goal being, for people coming in with less than 'Addisons'-like' failure, or chronic long term depletion such that they might require indefinite HC therapy, to gradually wean them off very slowly after a sustained period of maintenance level therapy following a very careful protocol that includes stress dosing as needed during the weaning process, to help give the person every chance for their own adrenal system to bounce back and restore more normal range functioning while achieving better energy and overall good health.

If adrenal dysfunction is a real issue for you, the older you are when you get started at this, the less likelihood that you will be able to fully restore cortisol production to healthy endogenous levels without at least some degree of ongoing HC support in small to very modest doses back by DHEA at the very least.

And you definitely DO NOT want to engage in this therapy unless your doctor is fully trained and fellowship certified in BHRT.

With such a wide split within the specialty of Endocrinology between the old school and new school docs, I've come to be as discriminating in which Endo's or BHRT docs one should seek out as I am with ablationists for persistent AFIB. Going to just any regular old school Endo and you start asking him for a BHRT work up you are likely to get a blank stare at best or an utterly misinformed diatribe at worst.

And Denver Fox, I fully understand your reluctance to consider anything associated with the word 'steroid' after your wife's experience with obviously a form and dosage that was not appropriate for her. Just keep in mind that when dealing with real natural cortisol and real DHEA, testostoerne etc, that people who.are truly deficient require, they will not have an 'allergic' reaction as your own body produces these essential hormones every moment of the day. Though, rarely, some may react to a filler in a pill or topical form of a bio-identical hormone which is fairly easy to adjust.

Generally, these reactions you folks describe above are far more common with large doses of synthetic drugs, and to a lesser degree could manifest even with bio-identicals when they are used in far too high a dose for too long without balancing hormones, and/or if the person has had a long standing deficiency in that class of hormones and are suddenly given a 'one size fits all' dose that their body simply can no long handle without a period of careful slow upward titration such that their dormant hormone receptors can gradually wake up again an assimilate the flood of new hormones ( IM speaking of Bio-identical hormones here in this case as synthetics generally have much poorer receptor binding and are typically not recognized fully by the body as their derivative natural hormone ... before the body is able to tolerate and thrive on a more optimal level of dosing.

All the time, we see people who have long be deficient in DHEA, for example, and who then have aura headaches or acne or oily skin, or may feel out of sorts with bit too much energy from starting right off the bat with a typically recommended DHEA dose. However, that is usually from far too large a dose of DHEA for their dormant bodies to handle at the start. It took me a full year of gradually upward titration, starring at only 4mg a day that I could initially tolerate, before my body could easily adapt to the ideal range now of 20mg sublingual a day giving me now an optimal 400ug/dl of serum DHEA-sulfate I now maintain.

For average size women, an optimal level in serum testing is typically around 280ug/dl of DHEA-Sulfate. So many people get bad advice about how to uses these natural agents, then try them with too large or an inappropriate form, have some reaction and then give up and recount these bad experience stories the rest of their lives, alas, missing out on if they only had had a more experienced hand in guiding them back to a more healthy range of these important biochemicals and avoiding such pitfalls.

Anyway, Anti-AFIB, you can get the book 'Safe Uses of Cortisol' by William Jeffries.. its an older out of print book t hat is still in circulation as he was the original pioneering researcher into Cortisol soon after HC was made. But a far more modern and up to date that described in detail how to replace and manage all 18 treatable hormone deficiencies with largely identical hormones is tour de force "The Hormone Handbook' by renowned Belgian Endocrinologist Dr Thierry Hertoghe, which is the literally Bible every BHRT doc I know os uses nearly every day in their practice.

It is a $495.00 thoroughly researched masterpiece of a book for physicians, the back half of this large tome being all the many references from the peer reviewed literature supporting every single therapy and recommendation in the book. Though it is mainly a medical reference for doctors, a medically astute layman can gain a huge amount from it as well.

There are many other good references out there as well and if you want to know more you can PM me with your phone number and when I have time after I return from California that l leave tomorrow morning too for my next TEE and the ISLAA conference this coming weekend, I will try to call and give you some more resources to investigate, but we are getting a bit off topic here of AFIB, even though this subject can have a very supportive effect on Cardiovascular and arrhythmia management as well.

Shannon



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2015 01:55PM by Shannon.

The Anti-Fib Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dnvrfox Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > FWIW, my wife, when prescribed steroids for
> > allergies, went itno what is called "steroid
> rage"
> > as did I. It tooks years of psychiatric Rx and
> > other help to get her through that. She still
> > sees a Rx psychiatrist.
> >
> > I started going around the house doing crazy
> > things. My wife thought it was CO poisoning
> and
> > called the paramedics.
> >
> > Neither of us will take any steriod.
> >
> > This is not unusual, and is a well-known but
> often
> > forgotten sude-effect.
>
> What the hell are saying, that your wife took
> several Prednisone pills, then went into
> Roid-Rage, and then as a result of that trauma has
> had to undergo Psychaitric treatment for years?
> The Roid-Rage only lasts as long as the drug is in
> your system, though other effects may linger. Wow
> both of you had extreme reactions!
>
> I as well have other have noticed increase in
> energy and well being as well as increased Libido,
> as the added cortisol, frees up your body to make
> more of the sex-hormones. In this "Steriod Rage
> you are describing, was your sex-drives affected?

I can do without any one swearing at me.

So, I am out-of-here. Last you will hear from me.

Denver, I agree with you...no excuse for any poster to use that tone or language here.. Please stay in touch on your anniversaries, at least... as it helps so many others to read success stories.

Kind regards,
Jackie

Dnvrfox:

Go back and look at your posts, you make an incredulous claim, and then complain that you didn't make your point very clearly, and that my reponse of calling your experience a "reaction" wasn't strongly enough stated. Therefore, I was helping you clarify the point that you were trying to make, by adding credence to your claim, and using exclamatory launguage, not 'SWEARING AT YOU'.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2015 10:43AM by The Anti-Fib.