Why am I experiencing cold hands and feet

I have had cold hands and feet prior to the ablatin, and the condition is still present. It is paticularily noticeable in my right ankle and right hand. Does anyone else experience this? Does it go away? I have good to slightly lower blood pressure and have been told my blood flow is good and that I am considered low risk for stroke.
Ron

Ron,

Perhaps low blood volume is an issue. See: <[www.afibbers.org]

Another thought. I have a friend who gets cold feet if she doesn't eat enough saturated fat. I know this goes against current convention, however she keeps her blood sugar very optimized and in a low insulin environment, saturated fat is benign.

George

Ron,
Are you taking any beta-blockers? They're notorious for causing cold extremities and even causing secondary Raynaud's.

lisa
__________________________

So much of medicine is looking solely down the wrong end of the gun barrel, and that is really a pity for all of us---Shannon



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2013 04:46PM by lisa s.

RonB,

All of the above are possible contributors but you said you have had this prior to ablation for sometime I gather? If so low thyroid function can be a fundamental culprit if that is part of your equation? Do you also have any issues with morning fatigue that tends to get a little better in the late afternoon or evenings? Are issues with constipation, dry skin (especially around the elbows and heels) as well as dry or brittle hair a concern cracked finger nails as well? You mentioned lowish BP at times and that, along with low pulse, is often a giveaway for low cellular T3 function. How is your colesterol readings normally without any drug of supplement help? If you tend to run borderline high to high ( above 240 on Total CHolesterol) and on LDL with an average to low HDL, that is a big tip off as well for low thyroid function.

DOnt pay too much attention to most Docs reading of thyroid blood tests. Unless they are expert at this, they typically wont recognize any thyroid issue at all even when you have the whole kitchen sink of signs and symptoms staring them in the face unless your TSH is above 5 .. which is long after the horse has left the barn. There is often a 5 to 10 year delay between the actual onset of clear low thyroid function and its reflection in a high TSH reading.

Sometimes gaining weight easily while having a hard time losing it is a sign too, but not always. Some people with hypothyroid function are normal weight or even thin as well. Anyway, if you have a glass thermometer or high quality accurate digital thermometer at least try taking your afternoon temperature around 3 to 4pm and if it is consistently less than 98.4 to 98.3 you likely do have some degree of low thyroid action and almost diagnostically so if you are at 98.0 and below. You can do the classic Basal temp test upon rising too ( many instructions on the web) look under Broda Barnes basal temperature test. But the afternoon spot reading will give you and a good idea if you need to look into this further if you do the temp test at the same time in mid afternoon over 5 or 6 days and get an average and peak reading.

Shannon

Ron, something else occurred to me. My father had bouts of bradycardia, and, as far as I can remember, his only symptom was cold hands and feet. Eventually, they captured it on an EKG. They installed a pacemaker, and he never had any more problems after that.

lisa
__________________________

So much of medicine is looking solely down the wrong end of the gun barrel, and that is really a pity for all of us---Shannon

Thanks for the thoughts. I have had quite severe bradycardia - with the lowest pulse I managed to record at 35bpm, usually in the low 40s and I thought this had a lot to do with the cold extremities pre ablation.

Since my ablations my heart has been labouring, but at a higher rate with no sign of the bradycardia. I am fighting a very low potassium level right now.

I am now 10 days post ablation (with no sign of afib) and will start to record my temperature as Shanon suggested.
Ron

Ron, "I am fighting a very low potassium level right now. ..."

What are you doing to, as you say, "fight" the low K level? Increasing your intake of K [potassium] containing foods? Taking enough supplemental K to raise your intake [as measured by one of the free online mutrient calculators like the one at
www.fitday,com
to 4700 mg each day] ? or what, please tell us?

PeggyM

Ron - Shannon's advice for checking temperature is an easy, classical way to determine if you are hypothyroid . I've just begun using the Exergen Temporal Artery thermometer..($30). and find that the accuracy and convenience far exceeds that from a glass thermometer held in the axillary area before moving around when you first wake up.

I do have a question, though. Do you have a feeling of 'internal chill or coldness' continually, even if it is warm weather? Do you prespire?

A second and very important clue is to have your Iodine levels checked. Most people are found to be iodine deficient...just as they are also magneisum deficient and this can be especially influential for those with arrhythmias. I'm knee-deep in research relating iodine deficiency and various ailments including arrhythmias and hope to offer a report that will be useful for afibbers.

My history is a lifetime of hypothyroid symptoms that were not corrected by convential treatment with thyroid hormones even though all my Thyroid Profile numbers were 'perfect'. Interesting, too, is the fact that my basal temp was always low and even after walking around for half a day, it was still low...that is until I began using supplemental iodine. There is an abundance of science to support the need to supplement with iodine for healthy cell function including that which is critical to afibbers... the sodium/potasioum pump mechanism... as outlined in CR 72.

Iodine testing is a challenge test... where you take an amount of Iodoral and assess by urine collection how much is excreted after 24 hours. It's typically found that people retain the iodine (since they need it) rather than urinate it out. Other posts have discussed iodine testing and the science found by the varioius Iodine Research Groups. Repleting iodine is certainly useful for whole body health as it's not just essential for thyroid function alone.

Oh...and don't be surprised if whomever you check with for hypothyroidism does not mention testing your iodine levels. In all my years of complaining about and living with hypothyroid symptoms (while my labs were perfect), no endocrinologist, internist, cardiologist, or EP ever wondered about my iodine level.

Jackie

Jackie,

As you supplemented with iodine, did your temperature increase? Over what period of time?

Now that you are well supplemented with iodine, are autonomic nervous system disturbances reduced in frequency or magnitude? For example, if before iodine getting indigestion would cause either ectopics or a reduced heart rate, after supplementation is there a different, lessened response?

Thanks!

George



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2013 01:49PM by GeorgeN.

Thanks for all the responses.

For meds I am currently taking Xeralto as an anticoagulant, and Nexium as requested by the doctor who did my ablation to limit the stomach upset issues for the first month.

My symptoms are cold extremities previously mentioned; a hard heart beat a lot of the time (in fact I believe this is causing me to wake up sometimes resulting in a loss of sleep), and hard stools that are sometimes floaters, and close to constipation (this is a very new condtion to me as my high complex carb diet tends to keep the plumbing working very well).

I am looking forward to getting off the Nexium and have started slowly reducing the dose.

The hard heart beat is scary as this condition usually lead to afib prior to the ablation, but so far in the past 12 days since my second ablation I have had neither afib or pacs.

I check my potassium often with the older version of a Cardy Meter and find it very low, in the range of 3.6 to 3.8 quite often. Every once in a while I have an outlier event where it can be as high as 5.2, but I wonder if these are false readings as they occur when I have recently woken up. Rarely am I in the sweet spot of 4.5 to 4.7.

No doubt I could be low on sodium when at home eating because we are not eating processed foods and salt very little. George I followed your link on this.

Shannon, my cholesterals are pristine.

Peggy in answer to your question I am supplementing a lot with Magnesium - 900 mg orally on a regular basis, plus topical spray and foot soaks. I take potassium supplements only when I test and find it low. Out diet is varied, but I do try to consume as many K containing foods as possible, plus I eat a lot so I should be getting enough from my diet. When I test and find the K is low I take 500 to 750mg of K Glyconate along with another 200mg of Mg. So lately I have been dosing around 3 times per day.

Jackie, I am not feeling any internal cold, but will start recording the body temperature.

George that was a good question to Jackie in regards to noticing an increase in temperature after Iodine treatment.

Prior to going to Europe I had a Saliva Hormone test but have not seen the results yet. Hopefully I will be in this week to visit my doctor and go over the results.

I appreciate all the help, Ron

George – I’m glad you responded to my Iodine comments. It’s been on my mind to remind you to check your fluoride intake from municipal water relative to Iodine interference as mentioned in other posts as a link to AF.

You may recall Erling’s history of becoming hypothyroid after moving to the Denver area and drinking the fluoridated water which is magnesium deficient as well. Prior to moving there, he had no symptoms or history of either hypothyroidism or Afib. He is sure the deficiencies in both iodine and magnesium were AF culprits and when he successfully repleted with the core heart nutrients, he cured his AF. He later began working on the hypothyroidism and had mentioned a persistent ‘internal coldness’ regardless of the weather even when using Armour thyroid hormone. That coldness resolved with iodine supplements and he was able to discontinue the thyroid hormone replacement.

You asked about my experience with temperature and supplemental iodine. As is typical for me, nothing is either quick or simplistic, so it seems.

My decision to use iodine did not come from any of the (many) doctors I consulted to find relief from hypothyroid symptoms nor was it linked to AF by any of them but since I had been following the Iodine deficiency links to many ailments, I requested the iodine challenge test from my FM MD.

Then, when I tested low in iodine, I began a repletion program. Even though I’ve been working at repletion for several years, I’ve done it very slowly and timidly because I was paranoid about some interaction stimulating me into ‘hyper-thyroid’ territory and triggering AF. (That didn’t happen.) Initially, I began with microgram doses of an Iodine complex recommended by my FM MD and very gradually increased to milligram doses which were still very minimal in the overall iodine requirement…especially in a deficient body. (I could have just as easily used either the liquid Lugol’s or the Iodoral tablets).

My history is such that I was probably born iodine deficient… having a mother who was born and raised in the Goiter Belt (NE Ohio) herself. I’m still in NE Ohio and for a period of years, I did drink fluoridated city water until moving to a rural area with well water in 1975. Still, any time I ate out, fluoridated water was/is everywhere. So that did nothing but contribute to hypothyroid symptoms which I have had all my life. No wonder I had so many iodine deficiency-related health issues…including AF.

I’ve been using 6.25 milligrams of iodine complex for almost two years... and at times I’ve increased it to double dosing on MWF…just to see if I tolerated the higher amount. I did until the Lyme treatment saga and then it’s difficult to know which caused what but with that AF breakthrough period, I dropped back to the lower doses.

As for basal temperature… mine typically were 96. 5 to low 97 point something. Never 98.6… and those measurements were after I had been up, moving around, driving to the doctor and having their auto-equipment with the under-the-tongue probe record the temperature. I was never disciplined enough to follow The Barnes protocol. The Exergen is much easier and undoubtedly more accurate.

Recent Exergen recordings are 98.3, 97.8, 98.5, 98.1, 98.0, 98.3, 98.2….. so I’m making progress.

The literature indicates that while the thyroid gland requires a significant Iodine quantity for function, other organs in the body including skin and all cells at the ion pump areas utilize iodine as well, so the body’s overall requirement is much higher than the meager ‘officially recognized’ recommendation of 150 micrograms daily. That’s just pathetic.

As I mentioned, I have a large collection of Iodine research and hope to offer a report on the connection between iodine deficiency and arrhythmia, thanks to initial clues offer by William and the data-mining by Erling. (BTW, William has cured his AF and several other maladies with iodine repletion.)

Meanwhile, following is a link to a great introduction on Iodine Insufficiency.
Orthoiodosupplementation: Iodine Sufficiency Of The Whole Human Body
Guy. E. Abraham M.D.1, Jorge D. Flechas M.D.2 and John C. Hakala R.Ph.3
[www.optimox.com]

I'll be happy to share more of my iodine info with you if you want to start reading prior to my formal report.

Jackie

Hi Jackie,

Iodine supplementation is a big key for not only thyroid health but in helping balance the metabolic pathway of many essential hormones. Take Estradiol, Estrone and Estriol for example. Estradiol is the main anabolic hormone for women resposibile for most everything feminine in the female body as well as supporting bone and muscle tissue health, collagen formation, skin health as well as cardiovascular benefits, mental acuity, helps slow dementia onset, as well as feeling of well being in both women and in men to a degree.

Most often during peri-menopause and menopause with at first the rollercoaster swings in Estradiol production and then a more steady drop in levels we see often and increasing shift to the conversion of estradiol into the less desirable metabolic Estrone. And with that the difficulty of added post menopausal weight gain and difficulty losing weight etc and as Estrone increases it also typically impedes to a degree conversion into the more protective Estriol metabolite as well.

Often in hormone testing we find women with higher levels of Estrone than Estradiol as well as Estriol in relation to that ratio in a womans youth. In addition, there is often a swing toward the negative in the 2 HydroxyEstrone to 16 alpha-HydroxyEstrone ratio which many have found to correlate with a greater likelihood of Sex hormone related cancers like breast and uterine cancers.

By repleting with Iodoral or Lugols in a gradual step by step manner building up slowly to as high as 2 to 3 Iodoral tablets a day, it can dramatic help rebalance not only the Estradiol to Estrone/Etriol ratio toward the much more favorable levels of youth, but also it can help quickly restore a much healthier and protective 2OH-Estrone to 16a OH-Estrone ratio as well.

Iodoral also can have big effects on men's hormone balance . including anabolic hormone as well as estrogens in men. It also helps reduce prostate risks as well.

The key is starting low and go a little slow to prevent any nasty Detox reactions from Iodines known ability to eliminate those unwanted chemicals bound to cellular receptors for thyroid and other hormones such possible Bromine/Halide toxicity which is so ubiquitous in modern society.

I take Iodoral every day and to good effect. Though I have low thyroid function as well, I haven't taken any thyroid hormone while dealing with the AFIB business and instead have relied mostly on Iodoral and good free form amino acid supplementation as well as selenium, magnesium and other agents to help boost my own depleted thyroid function as much as possible and my temps often run in the 98.4 region and even up to 98.6 in the afternoons much of the time since being religious with the Iodoral protocol.

Also, you mentioned how your serum thyroid panel labs looked perfect inspite of obvious Hypothyroid symptoms. This is very common and in so many of these cases we find a high Reverse T3 (RT3) situation in which the body is producing too much Reverse T3 and thus even with seeming perfect levels of Free T3 and Free T4 in the blood there will be frank hypothyroid symptoms and signs.

The key here is eliminating any exogenous T4 hormones for the time being and either do a T3 only protocol of gradually and carefully ramping the dose up over a three month period to turn off the excess RT3 production, of go the slower and more difficult route of tracking down and dealing with those factors most likely to have started the excess RT3 production to begin with such as
1. Adrenal dysfunction with either too low or too high cortisol .. often from unrelenting long term stress or simply aging. 2. Heavy metal toxicity 3. Low iron stores

It is the ratio of Free T3 to Reverse T3 that is important, not just the absolute level of RT3. to be healthy you need a FT3/RT3 ratio of >20 .. while so many I see have ratio around 10 or less, even when .. or especially because of ... taking either Synthyroid or Armour/ERFA for years.

Shannon

Shannon, is there any danger to the thyroid in taking iodine when Hashimoto's might be present?

______________
Lone paroxysmal vagal atrial fibrillation. Age 62, female, no risk factors. Autonomic instability since severe Paxil withdrawal in 2004, including extreme sensitivity to neuro-active drugs, supplements, foods. Monthly tachycardia started 1/11, happened only at night, during sleep, or when waking, bouts of 5-15 hours. Changed to afib about a year ago, same pattern. Frequency increased over last 6 months, apparently with sensitivity to more triggers. Ablation 6/27/13 by Steven Hao.

Thanks Shannon - I'm aware of the many benefits of optimizing iodine. I just wish the medical profession was as well so more people could regain health and also prevent these many problems now surfacing as a result of not only Iodine Deficiency but what caused it in the first place... competition from fluoridation and bromide in flour... for starters.

I've been through the bromide detoxing and was significant...which just helped reinforce my forging on.

Those who are "Iodine Literate" go into the details on how iodine deficiency relates to Estrogen dominance and the problems that causes in both women and men... esp. the cancer risks. It's another point that seems to be overlooked by conventional practitioners. It certainly could help cut healthcare costs.

Jackie