Questions re Bordeaux/Ablations in general

Hi all,

A few questions I'd like to ask please.

BORDEAUX:
1. What is the latest info/data regarding adverse events/mortality at Bordeaux?? I'm aware that it's likely very low but was nonetheless wondering what the latest data is.
2. Does anyone know whether or not prof H is going to be looking to retire anytime soon? He was born in 1955. I'm aware that Pierre Jais is a good bit younger and therefore likely to be undertaking ablations for longer into the future. I'm assuming that both men are equally competent?

GENERALLY:
I suffer with quite a lot of daily ectopy: have any ablatees here found that ablation markedly reduces ectopy as well as reducing/eliminating AF? Just wondering.... maybe that's just being greedy!

Any and all input in response to the above questions from our forum experts and past ablates would be greatly appreciated.

Best regards to all,

Mike F

Mike,

As far as I know Prs. Haissaguerre and Jais have never experienced an ablation-associated death despite having performed well over 10,000 catheter ablations for atrial fibrillation. The overall mortality associated with catheter ablation is about 0.1% per patient - similar to that experienced with cataract operations and 30 times less than that experienced in hip replacement procedures [www.afibbers.com]. The death rate per procedure is even lower at 0.07% or seven deaths per 10,000 procedures. Pretty good ods for a medical procedure. And "Yes", Pr. Haissaguerre and Pr. Jais are equally competent and often work together in very complicated cases.

Whether your ectopy originates in the atria or the ventricles an ablation performed by the Bordeaux team should be able to eliminate it.

I would suggest that you, as a first step, hop over to Bordeaux for a consultation and evaluation with Pr. Haissaguerre or Pr. Jais. I understand that the cost is very reasonable for citizens living within the European Union. You can arrange this by contacting Laurence Bayle at laurence.bayle@chu-bordeaux.fr.

Hans

Hey Mike,

I'm in exactly the same spot as you. My afib has progressed to daily ectopy which I can't just ignore because it can and does occasionally flip into afib. I contacted Laurence Bayle in Bordeaux two weeks ago and I can forward what she sent to me. It has data on mortality and adverse events up to Oct 2011. If you send me your email in a PM I will be happy to forward it to you.

Essentially, their operative mortality is zero and their development of esophageal fistulas is zero. This is out of 10500 patients treated. Stroke is 0.2% and I can't recall the rest. Nothing was big except for bruising at the site of catheter insertion which was 4%. This is big for me since my own ep, while trying to inform me about risks of an ablation a year ago said "we have a guy upstairs right now who had to have his esophagus removed". At that second I decided when the time came I would not be getting ablation done locally.

I wanted to ask you, did you ever take steps to lower your ferritin levels? Mine are always 350-420 as well and I was wondering if this might be an option to try. I want to pull out all the stops and cover all bases before commiting to an ablation.

Monty

Hi Mike - Since you invited comments and experiences, I’m always happy to share my AF story because there are some highly-relative observations.

You may recall that prior to my 2003 Natale ablation, I had more horrendous AF and ectopy… I had many months of daily or every other day AF events that often lasted 24 – 27 hours and more…then 4 hours or so of NSR and then back in another long session. Fearing I was going “permanent,” I consulted and received an ablation date with Dr. Natale for six months later. In the interim time, I reduced that AF activity sequencing to zero (no AF and no ectopy) and seriously considered delaying or cancelling the procedure. However, at the time, there was a threat that my very generous insurance plan might go away so I did proceed. It would have been just my luck to delay and then end up with a huge insurance dilemma. I was 59 and not yet on Medicare.

From the time I left the procedure room (11/03) to 4 years post-ablation, I had no AF and only some very scattered periods of what the home monitor captured as ‘sinus tachycardia’… a series of very rapid beats ending with a ‘thud’ thought to be related to thyroid function and treatment. Ectopy was a thing of the past and I give credit to the revamping that took place during those 6 months prior to the procedure. Changed diet to be more “Paleo,” increased magnesium, potassium, taurine, Omega 3’s, and focused on the adrenal and thyroid support nutrients as directed by my FM MD. And, I faithfully took the electrolytes right up to procedure time-- even carried the ‘contraband’ with me to the hospital and took as soon as I was able.

In the 4th year post-procedure, I experienced random AF breakthroughs… one or two a year… in years, 4, 5 and 6 which converted easily with the PIP protocol. AF but no ectopy. Ectopy seems to occur as a harbinger indicating a potential to slip into AF when the refractory period (the time between heart beats) becomes shortened…(physical manifestation is the ectopy) which shows up on an ECG as directly reflective of low potassium… AND equates to my favorite topic: low voltage or heart energy.

I learned almost by coincidence that my serum potassium was low on several occasions when those breakthrough events occurred. I focused on more potassium intake, and with Erling’s coaching, read the science reported by Richard Moore, MD, PhD on the importance of maintaining the sodium/potassium ratio at a minimum of 1:4. I carefully assessed it and was surprised to discovered that I had been quite negligent in meeting that requirement. My potassium intake was lower than I had assumed and my sodium was higher than I was ‘guessing’ it to be.

My reflective hindsight is that I was so comfortable in NSR that I became somewhat complacent and lax about that which formerly had been almost obsessive-compulsive. I needed to get back to the reality of the causes of AF, which is (my theory) that some individuals are more prone to waste or leak or not absorb and utilize the core nutrients required to maintain a calm, normal heart beat.

That must have been the solution because I went back to the status of no ectopy and no AF. As a result of this success, I wrote The Strategy and Erling followed with the lynchpin (CR 72) pulling it all together with the information about the function of the sodium/potassium ion pumps and how that relates to atrial fibrillation… and obviously, ectopy as well. I’d suggest re-reading CR 72 to re-establish the fine points of the Na/K influence on smooth, steady heart rate.

Additionally, my FM MD suggested that as part of the aging process... (by then I was 73)… that kidneys sometimes lose the ability to hang on to potassium and yet still manage to retain sodium. She said kidneys become ‘leaky’ (her descriptive term; not a medical definition).

In that 4th year post-ablation, I also went gluten free and have remained so. Supported by a huge amount of medical literature and practical evidence, the thought is that by eliminating the potential for any contributor to systemic and silent inflammation helps much more significantly than I had previously considered. Of course, denial about the impact of gluten comes into play of which I was definitely guilty.

Another potential influencing factor which (in reflective hindsight) I cannot ignore was that a year or so prior to ablation, I had became deeply involved in the cardiac fibrosis connection to AF. My research led me to conversations with Fibrosis experts, William Wong a naturopath and Exercise Physiologist and Ralph Holsworth, DO, the Nattokinase expert in the U.S along with other marketers of nattokinase. Because of my age and my incompatibility with warfarin/Coumadin, I was focused on making sure my blood viscosity was not conducive to clot formation and with my very lengthy, back-to-back, AF events, stroke risk was very high on my list of concerns and that fact probably drove the ablation consult more than any other factor.

From the fibrosis consults along with research Erling contributed, I learned that cardiac fibrosis can be a cause of arrhythmia in that the physical presence or “bulk” interferes with electrical conductivity…which makes sense and I offered CR 24 on the fibrosis connection to AF. That topic was continued in CR 75 several years later.

Although some EPs indicate that cardiac fibrosis does not influence afib, a common-sense observation seems to support that if fibrosis proliferation in the fascia of the heart musculature interferes with electrical conduction, then dissolving it with the systemic enzymes designed to break down fibrosis would support my success in eliminating the lengthy, daily back to back events that occurred over six months.

I continue using both NK and systemic enzymes to ensure that fibrosis formation in my body remains absent or at a negligible level. (I was plagued by fibrocystic breasts, polycystic ovary disease, uterine fibroids…all of which are known to be eliminated by high-dose, potent proteolytic enzymes.) I put 2 and 2 together to hypothesize that in the process of dissolving the other fibroses, my heart benefited as well. The fibrosis story is an important research project not only in terms of cardiac fibrosis but for those other fibrotic growths also typically caused by iodine deficiency, now connected to atrial fibrillation by those Iodine Experts managing and treating the consequences of iodine deficiency. None of the many doctors I consulted with for arrhythmia or any of the fibrosis impairments bothered to test for or even question iodine intake. In hindsight, totally amazing. Actually, appalling considering the hell I went through with all of it.
(So, Mike.. don’t ignore the fibrosis factor or the iodine deficiency factor.)

When I began my AF challenge 8 years prior to the ablation procedure, I had also given up all forms of alcohol since I learned immediately, that was a trigger. It’s now been confirmed by Dr. Natale and others that alcohol poisons heart cells and should be avoided. Additionally, I had already begun to be highly aware of the need to remain alkaline and had taken instructional classes on managing pH which I still do consistently to this day part of my daily routine via WW… another thanks to Erling developing that handy formula….plus it’s yet another source of highly bioavailable magnesium.

Since I continue to learn refinements by studying the medical literature that is continually emphasizing energy, voltage and pH, I firmly believe the voltage factor cannot be ignored. As stated in the post Alkalinity, Healing, pH and Voltage - The Inside Story quoting author of Healing is Voltage (Jerry Tennant, MD):

“Cells are 70% water.

Cells run in a narrow pH range 7.35 – 7.45 or -20 mV to -25 mV. pH is a measurement of voltage in a solution.

We can only get well and stay well by making new cells. Illness is a manifestation of the inability to make new cells that work. To make new cells, -50 mV are required.

When your voltage is low and you can’t get up to -50 mV, then you are stuck in chronic disease… because the only way you can get well is to make the cells to replace those that are destroyed by various forms of injury. If you can’t make new cells (which you can’t if you can’t get to -50 mV), then whatever part or organ that is damaged will never work right.

An acidic environment (low pH) invites disease states.

At a voltage of minus 15 mV or cell pH of 7.26, patients will be tired. At minus 10 mV (7.18 cell pH), they are sick. Cancer occurs at +30 mV or cell pH of 6.48) At a pH of slightly above 7.4 (salivary pH 6.5), cancer cells become dormant and at a pH of 8.5 (salivary pH 7.8), cancer cells die while healthy cells live). The higher the pH reading, the more alkaline and oxygen-rich, the fluid.”
Continue: [www.afibbers.org]

I wish you well, Mike, with your decision to ablate or not, but keep in mind that ablation does not change the cellular requirements as stated in the alkalinity clip nor does it replenish the critical electrolytes that may need optimizing in those who are insufficient for whatever reason. Mindfulness and augmenting remains a requirement.

Best to you,
Jackie

LAF and Cardiac Fibrosis - 2012
[www.afibbers.org]

Cardiac Fibrotic Remodeling - 2004
[www.afibbers.org]

Ablation CCF, complications, mortality in comparison to Bordeaux?

Guys and gals, many thanks for the replies - apologies for the late response.

Hans, many thanks for the info - much appreciated.

Montos, ferritin levels not too bad when last tested a few months ago - around 220 or so (have been as high as 450 in past). yes please forward me the info from Bordeaux - mwcforster@fastmail.fm

Jackie, thanks, as ever, for your input.

Cheers,

Mike