Sub Clinical Hypothyroid or Menopause continued (Part 2)

Just an update on my previous thread for the above...have been monitoring my temperature and here are the results:

09Oct = 95.72
10Oct = 96.49
11Oct = 96.53
12Oct = 96.04
13Oct = 95.81
14Oct = 95.50
15Oct = 96.44

So variation is def more than 0.2 one day to the next so am guessing my adrenals are shot to bits and my thyroid is sick !

I had two episodes during the time I was taking my temp - interestingly on both days my temp swung wildly, dipping in the afternoons rather than climbing as it did other days ! (My environment was the same on those days as other days).

Started the HRT last weekend, so far so good, heart rate slightly up, temperature slightly up too, mood up too. Discovered the one I've been given is a natural estrogen (Estradiol) but synthetic progesterone (levonorgestrel) and patches which carry less risk that oral types.

If no improvement will be going back to doc with temperature chart....

rgds
Heather

Hi Heather!

Very good of you to do the temp test, Its intersting isnt it? And it can be remarkable insigtful as this is one of the better direct markers in which your own body is telling you directly what is going on!

The average daily temperature variation from one day to the next is not that bad from between Oct 9 and 11th with daily swings within 0.3 to 0.2 degrees F. But from Oct 11 to 12 and again Oct 12 to 13 there is definitely excessive variability of of 0.5degree F and 0.75 Degree F respectively and only slowly settling down again the last two days to around a 0.3 degree variation.

This is a perfect illustration why you use a 7 full consecutive day period in get a longer term snap shot of the dynamic changes in both your adrenal and thyroid systems, which together control the greatest degree of your metabolic energy levels.

The 0.2 degree variation limit as a marker for healthy functioning adrenals/adequate cortisol response to daily stresses and activity is what you what to see for the majority of those 7 test days, if you have one day or maybe two days out of seven days in which the variation stretches to 0.3 degree F then that is relatively okay as well.

But even one day and particularly multiple days out of 7 days in which the temp swings are wider than 0.3dgrees as an upper limit of optimal and it is an extremely strong indicator that on those days your adrenal system could not keep up with the stress demands your lifestyle and/or events in your life or even just changes in other hormonal health parameters created too much cortisol demand that your adrenal glands and/or HPA-axis could not meet .. the very definitely of a hormonal deficiency!

However, what your seven day temp chart also highlights in big bold letters is a very high likelihood of a very significant degree of hypothyroid function! In fact, at those low across the board absolute average daily temperature numbers I would be willing to bet the farm that an under-performing thyroid is a major issue for you!

Those are VERY low daily average numbers when an optimal range is from 98.4 to 98.6 degree F for each daily average.

It is not uncommon at all to see people with significant thyroid issues also have significant adrenal output issues as well, and vice-verse and the two system work hand in hand and cross balance and check each other. When one starts to falter and is not properly addressed and supported, the other side of the coin usually is not long to follow.


Also, its no coincidence that your latest AFIB episodes coincided with the most extreme changes in daily average temperature which indicates you were not able to produce enough cortisol on those days to meet daily stress demands and your body very likely had to revert to excess adrenaline surges to make up for the longer term stress hormone cortisol's short fall! Sudden excess adrenaline in the moment is a Major trigger for AFIB.

But before rushing to a regular GP or endocrinologist Heather with this temp chart, save your breath as unless he/she has been specifically re-trained in how to interpret, diagnose and treat these clear signs of under-performing hormone systems which may not yet meet their very limited and myopic definition of near total glandular failure that they were taught in med school, you are likely to get no where and he or she is likely to stare at you with a blank face having
not a clue what you are talking about!

Where are you located Heather so I can see if any one that is good might be in your neck of the woods?

In the meantime, before you see a properly trained functional medical MD or one trained and certified in BHRT (bio-identical hormone replacement therapy), it is safe to add some adrenal and thyroid support nutritional formulas to help boost the system a slight amount. But rest assured these herbal/nutritional methods will likely remain woefully inadequate with this level of hypothyroid low temperature.

There are other steps needed to confirm the diagnosis, like a good clinical exam and either a few 'correct' blood tests and/or better yet a good 24hr urine test from either Meridian Valley Lab ( Renton Washington) or Rhein Lab (Portland Oregon) that includes the full range of anabolic and adrenal hormones and their metabolites, all the estrogens and their metabolites. Also free T3 and Free T4 in urine as well as Aldosterone along with 24 hr urinary sodium and potassium that will give real meaning to the Aldosterone test, and finally 24 hr urinary growth hormone status.

These tests combined with a solid clinical exam by a well trained physician in this area and you will get good treatment that will very likley have a profound effect on how you feel and your overall health!

How is your Blood pressure, choleterol panel levels and fasting glucose in the most recent tests of those variables??

Below is a specific link detailing this metabolic temperature test you have just done, including some blank pre-made PDF charts you can download and print out to use to better track your temp reading visually.

Metabolic Temperature Monitoring - Dr Rind

Blank Temperture Graphs for charting daily average temps

Also Heather, here is a good patient advocacy site on proper thyroid treatment with a lot of emphasis on hte need to insure proper adrenal/cortisol support preferably for some weeks before starting desiccated or combination of T3 and T4 therapy or at the very least starting any needed cortisol support simultaneously with starting thyroid treatment to avoid a possible cortisol crash induced by the downward pressure on Adrenal function that added thyroid hormone can bring without a good balance of the two.

This site has a wealth of good advice on what to do and the kind of doctors to see,, and equally important what to avoid doing and who not to see to get reliable and effective help in this critical area of medicine.

Stop The Thyroid Madness

Anyway, good luck on your investigations, at least you are off to a good start and congratulations for taking the initiative to start listening to what you body is saying about your metabolic energy.

Shannon

Thanks Shannon ! I'm in Kent, England. My blood pressure is generally normal to low, my cholesterol levels are OK with more 'good' cholesterol than bad according to the doc (who told me to keep doing what I'm doing) - if I recall my triglycerides were really low and my recent blood test showed glucose fasting was fine.

I'll have a good read of these links and will look into some nutritional support for thyroid/adrenals meantime - thanks so much for your support - much appreciated !

rgds
Heather

Heather - I have life-long experience with hypothyroidism... unrecognized or diagnosed correctly for a large portion of my life. Eventually, I found some doctors who actually knew something about treating it but failed to address the primary factor that Shannon has mentioned ..addressing adrenal function and correcting that before much can be accomplished with the thryoid. If you are unable to find someone to help, you can probably follow the nutritional protocols and supplements designed to support adrenal function. That's the path my Functional Medicine chose for me and while it took several years, it definitely helped significantly.

However, because all had been neglected for so long, I still have the thyroid issues even though my test numbers are fine... except for reverse T3. That said, I listened to William about the need for iodine to support thyroid function and very slowly, I'm noticing continual improvement.
The body temp and iodine go hand in hand but for me, I've had to increase dosing very slowly. Hardly anyone measures iodine content and many individuals are deficient. My body temp has always registered low at any time during the day or evening but by adding iodine, I've noted several improvements... two of which are slightly increased body temp and the elimination of some of the thyroid nodules that are present as a result of life-long hypothyroidism.....which undoubtedly contributed to the initial onset of the AF.

Jackie

You are welcome Heather,
And Jackie's recommendation about Iodine is very important as a first step in helping your own thyroid system perform as good as it possibly can on its own without the supplemental help of proper thyroid hormone repletion ... and thyroid hormone repletion is the same principle as your HRT that you are understandably noticing some benefits from now.

With regard to what are really 'normal' versus more optimal lab ranges when dealing with hormones, it is often a very different kettle of fish than with most other blood based biological markers in which the reference ranges are more or less reflective of a true broad normal range for the population.

But since most hormones decline (a few increase) as a sign of deficiency with aging, long term stress, environmental toxcity and nutritional deficiencies/absorption impairment over time, then relying on the typical 'reference range' diagnosis is usually HIGHLY misleading and often flat out wrong .. particularly as we move into our 50s and beyond, but even earlier as well.

Your body is the same general size and structure as it was when you were in you mid 20s and feeling on top of the world physically. It needs the same optimal range of hormone levels to perform anywhere near what it is capable of and to help reduce the impact of, and in some cases reverse to a good degree, many diseases of aging.

But when dealing with Thyroid for example it can be tricky to get a proper interpretation that matches your clinical presentation and experience as well unless you have a very well trained Doc in this more comprehensive view of address hormonal decline rather than just viewing hormone issues as a strictly black of white numbers game.

For instance, if is very common to see people with a TSH at 2.0 to 2.5 or anything above indicating some degree of hypothyroid function .. the higher the more hypo ... and yet their Free T3 may be borderline high to even slightly above the upper end of the range. Say from 3.8 to 4.2ng/l or so (the optimal range of T3 in serum is around 3.4 to 3.9ng/ml give or take a couple tenths of a point for different people) and yet these same people often have a Free T4 on the borderline low to frankly low end from say around 1.3 down to 0.8 or lower.

Most traditional doctors and endocrinologist would say you're thyroid is perfectly fine even when you have every single sign and symptom of classical hypothyroidism maddeningly OBVIOUS right in front of their nose! What they fail to see in just such lab numbers is the direct effect of adrenal impairment and a too low daily cortisol output on thyroid hormone production.

When cortisol is too low you will have a much larger and too quick conversion of the storage form of thyroid hormone called T4 into the very bio-active form T3 in the moment even when you can have too low overall thyroid hormone reserve throughout the day, so you will often see this highish level of T3 in the blood in spot testing combined with borderline lowish to low Free T4. but most Docs will not recognize the problem and just wave you off as 'normal' jut because you are within the very broad general reference range for which the upper and lower 2.5% of all people receiving that test at that lab over the past year is used to define the so-called 'normal range' ! Since the great majority of people referred to these labs for hormone testing are suspected or confirmed to have a problem,, these normal ranges are hihgly skewed in the wrong direction by the large number of sick/deficient people making up the test pool.

Anyway, in addition to some of teh adrenal/thyroid herbal supplements that might help some, make sure you are getting plenty of Vitamin C and a large dose of all the B vitamins particularly B5 and B6 in a bio-available co-enzymated form. Ashwagandha, Rhodiola Rosea, Holy Basil, Cordyceps can all help low adrenal output as can selected use of licorice extract which is perfectly safe for you since your BP is, if anything, on hte low side which is also common with adrenal issues.

Best of luck on sorting it out, just follow your nose with the links I sent as well as DR. Lindners good site on this whole area of medicine atHormone Restoration

Shannon

Can anyone recommend a good thermometer for testing my temperature (in the UK)? I have read that digital ones are very inaccurate, but I would prefer something easy to use. The one the GP uses on my ear seems ideal.

Hi Alexandra,

Some models of digital basal thermometers are okay provided you change the batteries every month to two months max. Just be sure they have two numbers to the right of the decimal place indicating greater accuracy and make sure you keep it under your tongue for at least 3 minutes and dont remove it once the beeper sounds in 30secs to 1 minute. That is too short for the kind of consistent good body temp reading we are looking for

You can also take a core basal temp test with thermometer tucked tightly under your arm as soon as you fist wake up while still laying in bed and before moving around at all and before drinking any water etc.

If you use an older mercury thermometer or the newer glass non-mercury thermometers be sure and test for at least 7 to 10 minutes to be more accurate and plot the numbers then.

The three times a day testing then taking a single daily average of those three numbers is the most informative and to be used for both adrenal and thyroid testing and dose adjustments of treatment.

But the early morning waking core basal temp test to see what you absolute baseline low body temp is can be useful as well and anything before 97.8 degrees indicates progressively lower thyroid function the further below 98.8 degrees your waking temp falls.

Shannon