Very hard but quite slow heartbeat

I am in NSR but have had fewer than 10 AF episodes over the last three years (the most recent episode was October 2011). I have PVCs most days - normally during the process of lying down. I take a few supplements, including taurine, arginine, vitamin C, magnesium and potassium and I consume no gluten nor sugar. I do consume quite a lot of caffeine, but this has always been the case and I don't find that caffeine gives me more PVCs nor does it stop me sleeping.

Recently I have been experiecing very hard but definitely regular and definitely slow heartbeats (between 48 and 60 bpm) at night. (This rate is normal for me at rest). The beats are so hard that I cannot sleep on either side - so have to lay on my back which is not always comfortable.

I am 45, and pretty fit - I regularly cycle, run and weight train. I have had an echo and a "bruce protocol" treadmill test in December 2011 and all is normal (all chambers normal size, all valves normal, no ischaemic episodes). I have partial RBBB which I am told is a "variant of normal" - I doubt this is relevant to my complaint. Though I am sometimes a little stressed, I don't think my level of stress has changed at all. I drink alcohol in moderation (nothing since Sunday - i.e. six days ago, but I am still getting the hard heartbeat)

What can cause a very heard heartbeat?

Mark I bet your are low potassium........are you 4000 plus MG each day? is your sodium higher that potassium? try some potassium gluconate powder in the evening and I bet your heart quiets! and make sure sodium is low.....I drink some coffee every morning, does not give me afib either........alcohol yes! I drink one glass of wine every Sat night...that's it

Tom

Tom,

Thank you for your reply - I will try increasing the potassium dosage. Is 4000mg always safe for someone with no known kidney problems? Is Potassium Chloride as good as Potassium Gluconate (I have a big pot of KCl!).

Mark

Mark you need to get most of your potassium thru food......I drink coconut water several times a day....I make a protein drink each morning with brewers yeast, lecithin granules a frozen banana...fish oil etc and it's 1500 mg potassium......I also drink electro mix by Alacer....400 potassium each packet.......LS V8 juice is very high.......melons ...canteloupe...avacados....honey dew......but some potassium powder say 400 or 500 mg in the evening is very safe!

Tom

Mark m.. A couple points for your consideration.

What is 'a lot of caffeine'... ? from coffee? If so, realize that coffee is a diuretic and that helps deplete your electrolytes... magnesium, potassium, calcium, sodium...... Caffeine is also stimulatory and while it doesn't affect your sleep, it can be just too stimulating to your adrenal system... in that it keeps your stress response hypervigilent. This, alone, is not healthy for anyone, but especially not for someone with arrhythmia. Cutting back may be quite difficult as you are likely addicted but you should definitely not ignore the caffeine connection. More than likely, if you need a lot of caffeine to keep you going, you have an adrenal fatigue or burnout issue.

Alcohol also depletes your electrolytes so at some point, you have to consider your intake of what you need - healthwise - versus what you think you must have for other reasons.

As for potassium ... you definitely should try to eat plenty of potassium-containing foods (fresh foods) but stay away from the high glycemic foods such as banana or sweet melon since metabolizing those just uses up the magnesium and potassium you are trying to replete so it's counterproductive and can also cause other problems with hypoglycemia which often goes along with hypervigilant adrenal function.

The supplemental form of potassium chloride is well known to be irritating to the stomach so if you find that to be the case, then consider either the citrate or gluconate form to augment your food intake. You'll have to look up the values in food and do a daily tally and log to be sure you get close to the minimum intake requirement of just under 5,000 mg daily. Remember that it's the magnesium that is the core nutrient and unless that is optimal inside your heart cells, adding potassium when magnesium is low may make arrhythmia worse.

Remember also that high sodium (salt) intake means low potassium... as sodium competes directly for potassium and potassium is what keeps your heart in NSR. Assess your intake of packaged, processed, restaurant foods for sodium content and compare that to your potassium intake from all sources....potassium intake should be four times higher than sodium at the very minimum. 4:1 ratio.

Spend some time to calculate your nutrient intakes so you know what needs attention.
Ask questions; we are here to help.

Jackie

Hi Jackie,

Thanks for your reply. A very good point about coffee as a diuretic - I had not really thought of that before.

When I first started to take the KCl, I got diarrhoea, but taking small amounts over the last couple of weeks (I guess around 500mg) has had no effect. So, for the last couple of days I have taken around a teaspoon in total spread through the day and my heart has been a lot quieter. I'm not 100% convinced it is the Potassium that is calming it down, though this seems quite likely.

I also take about two teaspoons of Magnesium Chloride spaced throughout the day and I very rarely add salt to anything. I hardly eat processed food at all.

Mark

Coffee is not that bad for you let's not make assumptions
also helps prevent type 2 diabetes

[www.sciencecodex.com]

[www.telegraph.co.uk]

Coffee is not that bad for you let's not make assumptions
also helps prevent type 2 diabetes

[www.sciencecodex.com]

[www.telegraph.co.uk]

The other issue with coffee or any liquid with or without caffeine is that none are true diuretics. A true diuretic is something that will initiated kidney function to reduce a build up of excess fluids in the body so you end up with less fluid than you when you started.

All liquids will hasten kidney function and increase urine flow. Liquids with caffeine may add to the kidney function, but here is what happens.

Assume a slightly dehydrated person doing nothing physical in comfortable temperatures. No real science here, just basics based on what I have read and some very generalized assumptions.

Drink 10 oz of Gatorade and urinate 3 oz
Drink 10 oz of water and urinate 5 oz
Drink 10 oz of coffee with caffeine and urinate 7 oz
Drink 10 oz of beer and urinate 6 oz

The point is that you still retain needed fluids regardless of the liquid, it's just that some are better at being retained than others. If you are dying of thirst, a beer is better than nothing. You can rehydrate with coffee, but it will take longer.

What matters here to afibbers is dehydration and loss of the critical electrolytes.

Simplistic explation referring to the stimulation of the hormones that control this process:

Quote from report on Livestrong:

Dehydration is the term used to describe an imbalance between fluid needs and fluid loss: when more fluid is lost than is required for normal body processes, dehydration may occur. Symptoms indicating dehydration include feeling thirsty, dizzy or weak. Some people may notice that their eyes or mouth feel unusually dry. While it may seem reasonable to replenish fluid loss with any sort of beverage, some beverages -- for example, those that contain caffeine or alcohol -- may actually cause, or worsen, dehydration.

Diuresis
A diuretic is a substance that results in the body producing an increased amount of urine. According to Dr. Robert Swift and Dr. Dena Davidson, alcohol's diuretic effect is fairly significant: drinking the equivalent of 50 grams of alcohol in about 8 ounces of water -- in other words, drinking four 2-oz. shots of liquor -- can result in the elimination of up to 1 quart of liquid as urine. This occurs because alcohol blocks the release of a hormone that is needed for water reabsorption. Without this hormone -- called antidiuretic hormone, or ADH -- the kidneys do not reabsorb the water; instead they excrete it as urine.

Caffeine -- a stimulant that is found in coffee beans, tea leaves, sodas and even chocolate -- also has diuretic effects. The relationship between diuretic substances and dehydration is a straightforward one: any substance with diuretic effects, whether alcohol, caffeine or even a prescription medication, can result in dehydration.

Read more: [www.livestrong.com]

I have had similar hard beats as you. I also share your exercise and age profile. I noticed when I added Vitamin D 1000 IU/day and and a probiotic to the normal regimen my hard beats have stopped. My potassium level is always around 4.7. Also, interestingly, my resting heart rate increased. J