Your first

Hello friends,

I would like to know a little about your Acute onset of Atrial Fib.... Or your first episode, not your reccurent afib eipsodes.

Studies have been shown in goats that once they induce atrial fib artificially in a goat that it has it forever..... "Atrial fibrillation begets atrial fibrillation".

I would like, if you are willing, for you to succintly describe your life, conditions, diet, stress, and give special scruntiny to the specifics..... I have read some of your stories in the past and mine is posted here and there on this site.

I am wondering what was the straw that broke your back...especially those of you who have been studing the effects of nutrition on this condition and have better "hindsight" and "insight" now.....

All my best,
Joe

Let's call the subject of this thread "About your first afib episode.." I forgot to finish typing it prior to post.

Joe,

Until August 2000, I used to have an episode once or twice a year. I didn't know what it was - I would just wake up in the middle of the night with my heart pounding. I had no idea I was out of NSR - just fast. In the summer of 2000, I was given a TEE. I came out of the procedure in AFIB, and have been chronic, with episodes just about every day ever since.

BillB
48;A;2000

Bill,
Thanks for your reply... Can you give any specifics of your lifestyle at that point that lead you up to it... What were you eating? What was your weight....Smoker, light drinker....stress, etc...., vegeterian, fast food eater.... We're your dieting..... You certainly have the tell tale sings of VAGALLY Orientation....

Joe

The first documented episode was after I electrocuted myself at work. I sustained minor burns to my right hand necessitating a trip to the hospital where afib was discovered after the ensuing ECG. That was july 8 2002 at the age of 48.

My diet at that time was terrible. I ate plenty of junkfood few vegetables and had an addiction to sweet /sour candies like rockets , sweet tarts or mr. freezy's. I was a 6'2" 250lb weekend warrior part time athlete trying to get into shape via half marathon training. Was up to 15K and developed severe shin splints. In autumn of the last few years prior to AF day, I would start playing hockey after a sedentary summer and play myself into shape. When winter and snow arrived I would begin my Cross country (nordic) ski training for the 30k event in the Canadian Birkiebeiner race. From age 40 onward i went from about 220lbs to a high of 256. Training was always in spurts. I do believe I was putting a lot of strain on my systems.

Additionaly I was a weekend binge drinker(home brewmeister/vintner) often more than 6 beers or 1 bottle of wine, with occasional hangovers. One thing I have never had is stomach or gerd problems except when heavy drinking and eating which would necessitate a few tums. My Blood pressure had crept up to 130 /90.

It is quite possible that I had been expeiencing Af that had gone undetected as much as 2years prior to "AF day". There were clues , like dizzines when rising from a chair, fatigue climbing a flight of stairs etc. It may even have been On 9/11. My forman at work picked that day to demonstrate what an a**ho he could be. I was very fatigued that day and attributed it to the shocking events that had taken place. In retrospect I may have been in Afib. I just don't know fore sure.

Adrian Ex smoker vagal 49

Joe,

Briefly:
1. I am now with hindsight fairly sure that I had an AF episode (very fluttery skipping heartbeat for a couple of days - I awoke with it) back in summer 87 after having crash-dieted 4 stones off in 4 months (literally an apple and a tin of tuna per day and little else).
2. Another few minutes of irregular heartbeat in mid 95 - could have been AF or palps - only shortish in duration - 6 am whilst out on beach fossil-collecting
3. Definate AF episode in Oct 99 (again with hindsight but undiagnosed at time - like previous 2) - awoke into it at 7-30am and it self-converted 3 hours later. After evening of heavy hot sweaty nightclub dancing - no booze - but maybe quite dehydrated. Very stressed at time.... estranged father just died a couple of months before leaving debt-ridden mess of an estate to sort out.
4. Diagnosed/hospitalised 20hr self-converting episode in May 2002 occurring just before bedtime whilst in hot bath after LARGE meat meal and best part of bottle of malt and v. stressed at time with cowboy builders botching my new house. I think digoxin given at hospital made episode last longer........
5. Diagnosed/hospitalised 5 hour self-converting (no meds) episode in Nov 2002 which I awoke into at 7 am. Quite a lot of red wine and choccies and rich food the night before.
6. Latest episode a couple of weeks ago - I awoke into it at 3am and it self-terminated 2.9 hrs later. Just stayed in bed, read, dozed, and tried to chill out! After bottle plus of red wine and large late lamb meal.

General:
1. Abusive/violent/traumatic childhood and adolescence - mentally-ill adoptive father.
2. Anxious adult with no self confidence and self-esteem/self-respect (but improving all the time!).
3. Adult history of diagnosed OCD, GAD, depression, GERD, and ectopy.
4. Type A perfection chaser.
5. Intelligent and highly educated (to PhD level) (education done in recent years).
6. Long history of fairly regular heavy boozing interspersed with binge drinking!
7. Currently with the assistance of SSRIs (on and off) and psychotherapy (1 yr now and likely a few more yet), I am hopefully getting my Sh*t together at age 42.
8. No more binge drinking (half a bottle of red 4 times a week currently), and paleo diet with mainly organic food.
9. Jaundiced as baby - high billirubin as an adult. Diagnosed mag deficiency. Low calcium. Very high platinum (?). Cholesterol a bit too high. Blood urate above range. BP normal (128/80). HR quite low (documented down to 39 bpm whilst asleep).

Mike F.

Joe,

Like others on this web site, I didn't really abuse myself at all before I was diagnosed. I ate well, stayed in condition, took supplements, didn't drink or smoke and exercised daily (but not brutally!).

Probably the only negative was an inability to deal well with normal stressors in life. I had other physical problems that were clearly pyschosomatic - belly aches, back aches, prostate issues, migraines, etc. I usually was able to control them with exercise - but not AFIB. I feel stress was the the trigger for me, but I'm not sure if it caused the AFIB. It may have been genetic - my brother has AFIB and my mother had it, too. But, of course, that could be another nature-nurture conundrum.

By the way, I used to think I was vagal. My early episodes were at night. Later, they showed up in the day-time, and I regularly converted overnight. I am definitely andrenergic, but I may be mixed. Doctors I have discussed it with think most people are mixed.

BillB

n addition to the above my father has Afib, my sister has crohns, another sister is hypoglycemic ,one brother has type II diabetes. another brother gets heart palps (racing ) from Generalised anxiety disorder.

Adrian,
Check through the theads here, you will find that diabetes crohns and hypoglycemia tied to a nutritional defeciency. Magnesium, Zinc and the B,C,E Vitimins play a large role in keeping all these symptoms at bay.

Have you ever had your levels checked? How about your relatives?

Joe

I have not had my levels checked but I hope to soon. see my other post about my new Dr. I'am also considering getting a hair analysis done thru
[www.drlwilson.com]
that Richard suggested.

The biggest thing holding me back is the cost of everything especially after just spending $1400 dollars on my car ( funny I can spend it on the car but hesitate to spend it on myself).

Adrian v49

My first episode happened just after the birth of my first son. I had had an epidural, and was also given a depakote (sp) contraception injection. I was worn out as my baby never slept - he just cried and cried unless I held him. I even had to sleep beside him. My nutrition was mainly fast food from the chippy or a plastic container you added water too. Pure MSG. What was I thinking as I was also breast feeding but was also supplementing with baby formula - it turned out he was allergic to it.

I used to think I was panicking with all the new responsabilities as my heart used to go hay wire. One evening I went to the toilet. When I sat down my heart went sky high, I whited out and lost conciousness (how you often feel when you get up too quick). I came too with my ex banging on the bathroom door. He couldn't get in as my body was in the way. I was surrounded by glass. I didn't know at this time that I had also been seizing. The Dr came and gave me some valium. Every so often my heart would go this crazy way and I was scared I was going to faint again. It happened the following week. My ex saw me and that is when I got diagnosed with Epilepsy. They said that it was nothing to do with my heart. For 9 years they kept dismissing my heart rate and irregularity. Until it was caught in an anti natal check up. Then I got an apology and it took another 9 years for them to admit I never had epilepsy....

Oh well....

Fran

I have [comparatively] got a pretty mild form of afib, i think. It sure scares the hell out of me when it does happen, though. When i had the first serious episode, it was subsequent to a real nasty low-wage job involving lots of overtime and very few days off. I was 57 at this time. I was taking some supplements but magnesium was not among them. I was seriously overweight, a lifelong condition which is still with me. My diet was poor, consisting mostly of what i could find in the convenience store where i was working. I was living with my brother, an AA type teetotaler, so i hadn't had anything alcoholic for months, had not been a heavy drinker previously either. Coffee was my primary mainstay and i cannot even estimate how much of it i was drinking, but i guarantee it was too much. I was using caffeine like a chainsmoker does cigarettes. I had just recently broken up a 17 year bad marriage, too. Nearly every waking moment was spent in the store, so i was not getting any exercise.

So lots of emotional stress, job stress, exhaustion, poor mineral nutrition, high coffee consumption, poor physical condition, its a miracle i didn't have a heart attack, not just afib. Of course i thought it WAS a heart attack, thought my time had come.

Peggy

Oh yeah, i should also mention that my mother seems to have been troubled with some sort of palpitations and may have had afib. My daughter has some sort of svt also, PVC's and PAC's, i think. Clearly this kind of trouble runs in our family.
Peggy

Hello friends,

I am wondering if the converging evidence might suggest that there is a point when your body has had enough and lets us know, in our cases it happens to be through afib.....once the camels back is brokin, it can never be quite right again.... Perhaps this ablation gives us a second chance to right the "broken back", but I would also suggest if, long term, a continual stray away from the proper nutrition wouldn't just break something else.....

This is one of my views at this point. There is no doubt that a continued good nutritional, stress management and exercise program would provide good results as they have with so many of us, but perhaps the ablation would take us back to square one, with a better nutritional background to boot!

Wondering if those who get the ablation and do nothing to change their stress levels, nutritional health, etc, have more problems after the ablation then those who do, it would seem to be common sense that it would be the case. I have read so many on this board that have had the ablation and feel even better than prior to the acute onset. Perhaps this GREAT feeling not only takes us back to square one but with a better health status than ever before? Just some thoughts.......

Joe

Joe,

Pre flutter/AF happenings within my body:

Fairly good diet. Salads, vegetables, and protein everyday, with fish about 2-3x's per week, with the occasional fast food. Usually a sweet at night, however. Only occasional alcohol. Never smoked. Somewhat active, as far as exercise.

Bad indigestion, eventually turning into GERD, and Schatzky's ring, of which I had repaired. Years of Tums and several years of Prevacid. Much bloating and probable cause, Candida.

Both rotator cuffs in my shoulders going out, at different times. Tried physical therapy, but eventually the use of cortisone shots took care of the problem both times, with complete elimination of the pain.

Headaches, many of them, and eventually severe migraines, but at this point, I think I had already had some indication of flutter, but didn't know it.

No family history.

Diagnosed with flutter 11/00, but maybe had 3-4 incidences of feeling like I hit a brick wall and couldn't take another step, prior to diagnosis, daytime only, at least that's all I know of.

After diagnosis and administration of beta blockers, my situation turned for the worse. Almost daily. Very debilitating. Heart rate would drop dramatically upon sitting or reclining. Played myself like a yo-yo. Up and down. Symptons came on particularly at night, with betas, but upon elimination of betas, it comes during the day. Betas block adrenalin, and I now believe I could have adrenal insufficiencies.

Presently using flecainide successfully, and it was the only med that ever worked. Propafenone and dysopyramide never worked well, and seemed to make matters worse, as well, but I was always on a combination with betas, so maybe they would have worked. I do think I eliminated betas when on dysopyramide for a period, and my rate climbed, and it didn't make a difference.

Upon changing my diet to modified Paleo, with elimination of simple sugars, wheat, rice, and dairy, my indigestion completely went away, as did the headaches, but those had already disappeared with the beta blockers. That was the only good thing that came from the betas. I haven't had a bad headache since, but do still experience back pains, and have for a long time. I have eliminated betas.

So, I think, due to bad indigestion, and the lowering of stomach acids, by way of Tums and Prevacid, this rendered my nutrients pretty useless, because they weren't being broken down, hence not being absorbed, due to lack of stomach acids. There could have been an assault by way of allergens from foods, Candida, and/or Leaky Gut Syndrome, as well.

Richard

I had my first episode of AF in February 2002 at about 2pm on a Thursday afternoon. Had been to a Tai Chi class in the morning, then coffee with a friend, home for a couple or rolls for lunch, phone chat to friend, then "wham", like a vulcano exploding in my stomach, my pulse went haywire. It didnt settle and I was in total panic so called ambulance - given sotalol in hospital which slowed heart after about 4 hours then converted after another 3.
Background of fluctuating high blood pressure related to anxiety - reasonable when not anxious so not treated. Also many ectopic beats related to digestion and resting after exercise - had started gentle gym routine about 3 years previously as had few episodes of tachycardia on exertion. My body obviously doesnt like physical or mental stress!
I had two subsequent AFepisodes of several hours - both on Thursday afternoons when stress levels sort of peaked! Over the last year had homeopathic treatment, acupuncture and TFT and 5 episodes which converted within a few minutes( half the time on Flec. but nothing over last 6 months)
My mother in permanent AF since her mid 70s and father recently had his first one at 83. Given digoxin and soon back in sinus rythmn. GP said my version different to theirs - certainly more violent but dont reallyunderstand.
Hope this helps.

Hello all,

Just putting it out there that perhaps it is not so much a gentic question as it is one of environment and learned habits. There is no doubt that we retain many of our eating habits and what we eat from what our parent liked. Fran said that her part of the country is low (or was it high?) in molybdenum, so anyone that had come from there would likely be suffering from this micromalnutrition of sorts.... But again, many people who come from different families don't have these problems, but then again maybe they live a more nutritrionally stable life.... I am going to do some searching this week for information about afib and the "genetic connection".....

Seems to me that the common thread running through most of the posts in this series and in the BB posts in general is STRESS and ANXIETY. Stress in all its forms - physical (exercise, nutrition) , mental and emotional , separately and combined. (Tony Blair is the most recent example) I still maintain that early childhood stress (insecurity, loneliness, blocked identity development ) is an underlying predisposing factor for many afibbers.

We afibbers probably have a genetic and/or conditioned predisposition to this particular condition and with time and when the conditions are right, off it goes. (Other people may have other predispositions (weak points) and develop other diseases and disorders from the erosive processes of stress)

Top quality diet and supplements restore minerals and other nutrients depleted by STRESS and ANXIETY. They help restore the body's equilibrium and also act as calming agents. At times stress and anxiety can build up to a point where it "rides over" the benefits of the nutrients and afib breaks through from time to time. In simplistic terms, this may acccount for the apparent cyclying of afib.

Carol

Joe,

I have worried that if I have an ablation, my stress goblins would seize another beachhead to haunt me. I think I am a different person than I was before I got persistant AFIB. It's been my own, personal bio-feedback machine. I'm much more live and let live. I don't have to win every argument or get everything done before quitting time. But part of that may be because I have had to be. If the AFIB goes away, maybe I will revert back to the old, Type A, me. An opportunity the evicted goblins would appreciate.

It is a nice to think we might be "better than new" after an ablation. But that seems too optimistic. Ablation will do some damage - if nothing else, then in terms or heart rate variability. I think I would be thrilled if I am almost as good as I was before I became persistant.

With respect to the high that people seem to get post a successful ablation, it's only natural. When you get something back, that you haven't had in a long time, you must get an incredible high. (Just listen to Newman!) It overwelms all the other things about your life that bug you. But it can't last forever. Most of us will eventually take the thump-thump-thump as a given, and all those other buggers will come back to the forefront. That's why you have to work on those buggers, too. Even if they didn't cause the AFIB, they certainly, at least in my case, have caused a slew of other problems. And maybe they even caused the AFIB. Hell if I know.

BillB

Stress goblins, zowie. Wonderful turn of phrase.

A stressful childhood involving loneliness and insecurity, that certainly applies to me. Every 'major' episode i have had has been easily correlated with especially stressful conditions, too. But thank goodness there does not seem to be any periodicity with me, and i must say i'm not sorry, though i do sincerely sympathize with those who do have this.

i am very puzzled about what conditions in general are due to inheritance, as opposed to those due to life circumstances. Something is being passed down in my family, even to my daughter, whom i did not raise, but met as an adult. Granted, she seems to have the mildest case of whatever it is that makes us vulnerable to some kind of problem leading to afib.

Peggy

Peggy,
I'm curious about the comment that you made about your daughter showing signs of a predisposition to afib. What has been noticed? PACs?

My son has had them and I keep my fingers crossed that he doesn't develop afib. The idea of being a carrier is disturbing!

Carol

PVC's, i think. She reads this board sometimes, maybe she will post. It doesn't seem to be real bothersome, i think they showed up in some kind of test or routine exam. Will let you know when i get it straight. She and i are very, very similar, physically at least, as though we had been clones, which believe me is not the case.
I think "normal people" have these things and some people subsequently get afib and some don't, but i don't think they invariably progress to afib, will someone who understands this better please explain?
Peggy