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Newman
Details of my CCF ablation
October 18, 2003 11:44PM
As I posted yesterday, I had an ablation at the Cleveland Clinic last Tuesday, 14 October. Doctor Natale performed the ablation. This post is to provide details that I think will be of interest to many of you. I had my consultation with Dr. Natale on 23 September. I posted details of that consultation on or about 25 September, so I won't repeat that information.

I had my first atrial fibrillation "event" 19 years ago, and it lasted an hour, and then popped back into NSR by itself. I could feel it and wondered "what the hell is this?". I saw my family doctor a few days later. He had me do a stress test and it was normal. He said to cut back on my coffee and alcohol. I of course didn't. After that, for several years I would have one or two events lasting an hour or two. As the years went by, every year the number of events increased, as did the duration of the events. About five years ago, I was up to maybe two events a month lasting maybe one to four hours. I managed to get an ECG during an event and then got a complete evaluation by a cardiologist. The diagnosis was paroxysmal atrial fibrillation. About four years ago I started taking drugs. I took Lanoxin (digoxin), Toprol XL (a beta blocker), and aspiran. I have taken Lanoxin and Toprol XL ever since. Mayo Clinic switched me from aspiran to Coumadin (warfarin) three years ago because I was up to four or five events a month lasting for an average of six hours. This past year I was having an average of eight events a month with an average duration of 15 hours, with durations of three or four days not uncommon. I was in atrial fibrillation 25% of the time. I tried Flecainide on two different occasions for three or four weeks, and during both trials my AF became more frequent, and I started experiencing a new and different kind of arrythmia. That drug is not for me. Two and one-half years ago I met with Dr. Packer at Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minnesota, and almost elected to have an ablation. Fortunately I didn't. As I recall, success rates were 50% at most, and often required three or four ablations to get that rate. Also, the procedure took 12 hours often, and you had to be awake during a lot of the procedure. It was a very unpleasant procedure for the patient to go thru. The doctor said that patients would feel like they got hit by a truck afterwards, and would be hospitalized for two or three days. I decided to wait for improvements in the instruments, procedures, and experience and skill of the doctors. A note on my Toprol XL and Lanoxin: They have done an excellent job on rate control. While on those drugs, my NSR heart rate averages 50 BPM, and during atrial fibrillation, the rate averages 75BPM. I haven't had the fast rate problem that many others have had.

I discovered this bulletin board a year ago and have spent several hundred hours reading the posts from my many new "afib friends". I feel like I know many of you and it is us against the world. I think we make a great team. I have become an expert in many areas of this disease, and am sure that I know more about those areas than a majority of doctors. I can converse intelligently about the disease with the best physicians in this specialty. I made the decision to have an ablation just before telling the Mayo Clinic no. Since then I have had no doubts that I would have an ablation. The question was when. I planned to wait until the success rate was high and the serious complication rate was low. The progression of my AF was the third factor.

Last spring my AF had progressed to a point where I expected it to be chronic soon. I had decided that Dr. Andrea Natale at Cleveland Clinic Foundation (CCF) was the best in the world (or one of the very best). I also decided that the instruments, procedures, experience of Dr. Natale, and his skill had reached a very high level. I liked the procedure, I liked the odds, I liked the doctor, and I wanted to be free of AF, especially before it became chronic. So last spring I made an appointment for a consultation in September, and an ablation on 14 October. That is the history.

I had been in NSR for five days when I met briefly on 13 October with Minerva, one of Dr. Natale's excellent nurses. She said I would not need to have the TEE (transesophageal echocardiogram) since I had not been fibrillating for five days. She confirmed my report time of 11:00 A.M. the next day. Dr. Natale does two ablations a day four days a week normally (I think). The early patient needs to report at 6:00 A.M. and the later one at 11:00 A.M. As per instructions, I stopped taking Coumadin three days before the procedure, and stopped taking Lanoxin and Toprol XL one day before the procedure (semantics are confusing here). The morning of the procedure, I woke up at 5:00 A.M. three hours before I had planned to wake up. I'm a great sleeper normally. I had a troubled mind. At 8:00 A.M. I went into AF due probably to stress.

At 11:00 A.M. I reported. I was afraid that I would have to have the TEE since I was fibrillating, but Minerva asked and Dr. Natale said I was "good to go". The AF was of such a short duration a TEE was not required. GOOD!!!!! I spent 20 minutes at admissions with paperwork and then went to the cath lab. It was "gown" time for me, so my son and my close lady friend from Bolivia went to the cath lab waiting room. After being gowned, the nurse said to go into the waiting room for final kisses. I had my photo taken by my friend Sadia, got a couple of hugs, and then the nurse and I went to what must be called the "prep room". Blood was taken (I heard protime mentioned) and an IV was started. I was then wheeled into the EP room by the male nurse. Chest and upper legs and abdomen and groin were trimmed with electric clippers (no razor used). Then while sitting on the edge of the table, another nurse stuck a maybe five inch square patch on my back. This is where the shock would come from if cardioversion was necessary. I laid on the table and they started the drug flow (I think it was called Versed or something like that). It was a good friend. Within seconds I was asleep. The time was about 1:00 P.M. I was asleep for the entire procedure except for about a one minute period when I could feel the burning in my heart. I moaned a little and I heard someone say not to move and not to talk. Maybe I was snoring and shaking my body or something and they decreased the drugs to get me to stop. I don't know. Anyway, they must have increased the dose because the next thing I remember I woke up being wheeled down a hall toward a hospital room, and Sadia and my son Travis were at my side. I got to my hospital room at about 5:00 P.M. I had been in the EP lab about four hours. I have been told that an assistant of Dr. Natale's, another doctor, inserts all four catheters and does some other things and when everything is ready for the ablation, Dr. Natale comes in and does it. After Dr. Natale is finished, he leaves, and the assistant does the after ablation work and removes the catheters, and seals the puncture wounds. I didn't see Dr. Natale in the EP lab because I was asleep. For all I know, a passing beer truck driver may have stumbled in and performed the ablation!

In my room, nothing hurt. No pain. I did feel a little nauseous for three or four hours and then it went away. I suspect this was from the drugs. Of course my dinner was delivered shortly after I got to the room. The lady who brought it in said "enjoy your dinner". Being nauseous, I cynically said "Are you crazy?". About 11:00 P.M. I was feeling normal and was very hungry. Kitchen open? NO! Half a dozen packs of saltine crackers available for me to dine on? YES! I wonder what that cost me! So I had crackers and juice at midnight. I walked the halls. I felt great. I was ready to go home. Oh, I forgot. The first four to six hours I was in the room I was not supposed to move my legs. They were afraid the catheter puncture wounds might start bleeding. They had put a lot of tight bandaging over the wounds. It was bulky, but not uncomfortable. At 11:00 P.M. a nurse said I could remove the bandages, but suggested that I wait a few extra hours, since an occasional patient starts to bleed if they take off all of the bandages at the earliest possible allowed time.

I slept well . Sadia stayed all night, sleeping in a chair. Travis went to the hotel. The following day I was ready to leave and feeling very normal (and in NSR). But I had several hoops to jump thru. I finally got to leave at 3:30 P.M. I had breakfast and lunch in the hospital. During these hours before 3:30 P.M., I had blood drawn (once I think), vital signs taken several times, was given an electronic monitor to take home and instructed to telephone in an ECG (of sorts) every few days, and if my heart did anything other than NSR, I was visited by Dr. Natale and Michelle, I received some instructions from another physician (I don't know who he was), and finally I did some more paperwork, and then they let me check out. They suggested that I spend that night in a hotel in Cleveland. Flying or driving was O.K. the next day, but I needed to walk five or ten minutes every hour while traveling (I think to prevent blood clots).

Dr. Natale and Michelle talked to me for about ten minutes about 10:00 A.M. He started me on my normal doses of Coumadin and Toprol XL on the day after the procedure. He said not to take Lanoxin (which I had previously taken for years, as mentioned above). He also started me on Lipitor. There is some evidence this may help keep the stenosis risk down. The plan is to take Lipitor for one or two months (I can't remember which), and then discontinue it. Also if I am doing well after two months, stop Toprol XL. Wait a month or two more, and if no more fibrillation, stop Coumadin and declare victory over AF.

Concerning my procedure, Doctor Natale said it went very well. He said he didn't find anything unusual in my heart or its anatomy. He said that since I was in AF at the start of the procedure, he electrocardioverted me once (I did not feel it and was not aware of it). He said the bad electrical signals were coming from two of the pulmonary veins. There were also potentials at the other two pulmonary veins, so he isolated all four pulmonary veins. The large vein in the other side of the heart atrium was also misbehaving, so he isolated it (but 360 degrees of ablation was not required here). He also found potentials in two or three other places and he ablated them (probably discovered by mapping I guess). He took care of every bad signal and every potential that he could find (this description is far from being medically correct, but you catch the drift I am sure).

To summarize the overall event, and additional notes:

(1) EP lab/hospital check-in time to check-out time was about 28 hours. However, the pre-op and paperwork took two hours, the time in the EP room having the ablation took four hours, and six hours were required to keep my legs still and to get rid of the nausea. This totaled 12 hours. I was then feeling good enough to go home, and would have if they had let me. The entire affair was easy. I had no pain from any source during my stay except one minute of light burning sensation during the procedure. The only discomfort was a few hours of nausea after the procedure.

(2) I will know in three or four months if I am in the 80% successful group. I already suspect that I am. I have been in normal sinus rhythm for over four days now. I have done a number of things that oftentimes triggers AF and my heart didn't react at all. Also, Dr. Natale seemed very positive when we discussed my ablation.

(3) As I stated before, my heartrate on Toprol XL and Lanoxin before the ablation averaged 50 BPM while in NSR. After having the ablation, and now being again on Toprol XL (but not Lanoxin), my heartrate is averaging 75 to 80 BPM. Over time this will be coming down if I am like many other people who have had ablations and have discussed heartrates on this bulletin board. How low will it go? I don't know.

(4) Four days after the ablation, I feel great. My mental state is what has surprised me the most. I am SO HAPPY. Maybe I was dreading the procedure, and now that it is behind me, that black cloud has gone away. Additionally, after many years of dealing with AF and doing many weird things on a daily basis to try to prevent triggering another event, I now am realizing that I am probably cured and don't have to even think about triggers anymore.

(5) The Cleveland Clinic, Dr Natale, Michelle, Minerva, and the dozens of others who I had personal contact with were of the highest quality, talented, and so very nice. I honestly believe that Dr. Natale is the best in the world. He has also surrounded himself with terrific helpers. I would also conclude that it is highly likely that the other Cleveland Clinic EPs who do ablations are also as good as anyone else in the world.

(6) If I am not cured, I will not hesitate to return for a touchup ablation by Dr. Natale.

(7) There IS a cure for AF. It is safe and effective. It will change your life.

I will gladly answer any questions.

I probably forgot some things . If I remember any that I think would be of interest, I will post them in another message.

I hope this information has been helpful.

Regards to my afib amigas and amigos,

Newman
Cathy
Re: Details of my CCF ablation
October 19, 2003 02:34AM
Newman-

Congratulations on what sounds like a successful ablation!! And thank you for the details. For one like myself, considering ablation, I found it very interesting. I'll be more prepared when my turn comes, from reading how everything played out for you.

Enjoy your new found FREEDOM!!!!!!

Cathysmiling smiley
Re: Details of my CCF ablation
October 19, 2003 05:13AM
Newman - First - congratulations! Second, thanks so much for such a detailed report of the procedure I can expect on 11/12.

You and Jim W. both give me great confidence that I am doing the right thing and can expect the excellent care and result you both have had. It's a comfort to me.

It will be good to get on with my life. I wish you well in yours and thank you again for contributing to this forum. I agree, we are a great team and an outstanding support group.


I hope you will check in from time to time to lend encouragement to others who are contemplating ablation.

Enjoy your new life. Regards, Jackie
Woodcliff
Re: Details of my CCF ablation
October 19, 2003 04:04PM
Your initial feedback is very heartening as I am scheduled for a Natale ablation in about 5 months.
Many thanks for being so punctilious in your reporting. For me, it's like having a dress rehearsal.
Please keep us all posted.
Best wishes.
maryj
Re: Details of my CCF ablation
October 20, 2003 05:06AM
Congratulations, that's wonderful news. I myself had an ablation and a follow up ablation last year and it didn't work.

My question to you is that in your conversations with Dr. Natalie and his colleagues...did they mention any reason why an ablation would not be succesful....I keep trying to get a straight answer and all I get is most of the time it works. I was told there was a 75% chance of it working with the first ablation and a 85-90% chance on the second (follow-up) ablation....

I came home after the ablation and the very same day went into AFIB...Needless to say I am discouraged, but so very happy for your people who have had successful ablations.

I'm trying to determine if it was me, the Doctor (well-known EP at Brigham & Women's Hospital in Boston), the procedure or whatever....If you have any info I would certainly appreciate.,.

Best of luck and you know I am jealous.........
BillO
Re: Details of my CCF ablation
October 20, 2003 09:51PM
Congratulations, Newman!

I share your joy and excitement at the prospect of life without Afib! Makes me want to proceed with an ablation more than ever. Just got our local insurance provider to approve a CCHC referal with Dr. Natale. Thought it would never happen. So, I'm days away from taking the first step - scheduling the initial appointment. Your overview gave me great hope. Thanks for taking the time to share it with all of us.

Yours, for Afib-Free Life,
BillO
Newman
Re: Details of my CCF ablation
October 20, 2003 11:38PM

MARYJ,

I don't know why your ablations were not successful. Dr. Natale and I did not discuss the reasons why my ablation might fail. We discussed the success rates and he stands by those numbers. They are very good.

Choosing the right doctor is the most critical factor in whether your ablation will be successful or not. All other decisions are far less important. If you want to be cured, go see Doctor Natale.

Good luck,

Newman
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