Adrenal fatigue

I've just been reading a book entitled Adrenal Fatigue in my continuing quest to overcome Afib by building up the overall health of the body. I'd like to ask three questions:-
1) Has anyone on the Forum been diagnosed with this?
2) Has anyone tried taking adrenal extracts and with what results?
3) There are plenty of U.S. sites selling adrenal extracts but does anyone know a U.K. firm?
Thanks,
Sam

P.S. I've just passed the two months Afib-free mark. Drinking four pints of water a day and using Buteyko breathing techniques at night if I feel the slightest hint that the heart's not 100% happy have been a real help.

Sam,

I think that Adrenal fatigue is linked to autonomic nervous system imbalance or Dysautonomia and afib.

Check out the book, The Mood Cure, by Julia Ross. Chapter 5 is "All Stressed Out: How to Recover from Adrenal Overload. " and there is an "Adrenal Tool Kit" on pages 317 - 329. (Penguin Books, 2004)

I am taking regular breaks in the day for breathing exercises and meditation.

Carol

Sam - I was dianosed and treated by a functional medicine MD for more than adrenal fatigue, but actual adrenal burnout which went hand in hand with hypoglycemia and chronic fatigue, also diagnosed.

My first integrative medicine MD used the adrenal extracts or glandulars which didn't help a whole lot at first. He moved. My new FM MD used two approaches - one was the guidelines set forth in the book by endocrinologist Diana Schwarzbein MD - "The Schwarzbein Principle II" and the second was nutritional adrenal suppot with supplements from Metagenics.

Dr. Schwarzbein is in California and is recognized as a leader in the field of adrenal burnout. She suffered from it herself so she uses that experience for success.

I doubt that this is a DIY project as some testing for cortisol levels is involved along with fasting blood glucose and insulin levels on a regular basis.

The Buteyko breathing is a wonderful assist to good health, in general. I've always thought it would be helpful with afib as well but I didn't learn about it soon enough in my own afib journey to turn it around.

Keep up your good program. Best to you.

Jackie

Sam,

I just looked up Buteyko breathing at www.pe2000.com/butyko.htm and I realized that many of things that I have discovered on my own through trial and error that seem to help with anxiety and afib were features of "Buteyko breathing."

I have always found relief through shallow breathing (rather than Yogic breathing) , and relaxing the muscles, especially the shoulders, tension in chest and stomach, legs and arms while exhaling.

Thanks for the "heads up," as they say.
Carol

I have been diagnosed with adrenal fatigue and the glandulars can help, but have an equal and opposite downsides. The healthy adult adrenal gland makes 10 to about 35 mg of cortisol per day. The average is around 20 to 25 mg a day. I used a product called IsoCort of at least two years. IsoCort is an adrenal cortical extract that contains 2-1/2mg of cortisol per tablet and is well standardized by the company. Adrenal glandulars are not regulated as to dose or hormone levels as a rule. They also can be made from the whole adrenal gland or just the cortex, which is the part of the gland that fatigues. The whole gland extract will have hormones that you probably don't need. With most products like these, you do not know the dose you are getting. On top of that, you can get hormones that can worsen a-fib. For example; IsoCort contains all the hormones of the adrenal cortex, which includes aldosterone and DHEA. These are androgens that can have an adverse affect on a-fib. They do in my case. continual use of adrenal extracts or licorice root are well known causees of a-fib.

A person can also use licorice root to treat adrenal fatigue, as it works by slowing the breakdown of cortisol and other adrenal hormones from the liver and thus keeps your own hormones in the system longer. 1 teaspoon of licorice root extract in a tea is very roughly equivelent to 4 mg of cortisone. (Do not use degyccerized licorice as the active ingredient is removed.) This simple herb is also associated with the development of a-fib due to it's affect on the concentrations of other adrenal hormones besides cortisol.

The other downside to taking anything with cortisol or cortisone in it is that it weakens your own adrenals. If they are already weak, then it can be helpful by making you feel better, but the dose is critical. If you take more than you need, then you will weaken your adrenals further and have an adverse affect on the pituitary regulation of the adrenals. Even small doses can cause suppression of pituitary regulation. (been there done that). For example; in William Jeffries "Safe uses of Cortisol" he points out that if a person takes 1/2 of their daily needs in cortisone or about 10 mg a day for a person that needs 20 mg a day, they will weaken their own adrenal gland by over 60%. My personal experience is that cortisone use will make you feel better if you have weak adrenals, but at a cost of suppressing your pituitary regulation of the adrenals and weakening of your gland to the extent that you will find that you cannot handle stress well at all. You'll feel good as long as you don't have stress. Cortisone use, whether in prescription meds or in adrenal glandulars reduce adrenal reserve or the capacity of the gland to respond to stresses that exceed your daily needs. So, taking cortisone can result in a limited life as far as stress is concerned.

In my case, this loss of adrenal reserve from using cortisone has resulted in increased a-fib. Since a-fib can be triggered by stress, then every time you have a stress that requires more adrenal hormones than your daily 20 mg, you end up going into a-fib. I can avert it many times by taking extra cortisone at the time of the stress. But, I have to guess how much I need and if I get it wrong, then I will still go into a-fib. Also, because of this situation, I have not been able to get off the cortisone. Any time I try to reduce my dose, then I go into a-fib. Lots of things can require you to need more than 20 mg a day of cortisol. They include a simple walk, a head cold, dental work and mental stress. Stresses like this can double your daily needs of cortisol and some types of dental work can require as much as 90mg of cortisol a day.

So, my point is that you do not want to go down this slipperly slope unless you have to. If you think you have adrenal problems, you should have a 24 hour cortisol test and perhaps an ACTH stimulation test and maybe others. General adrenal fatigue usually can get better with rest, reducing stress, and a change in lifestyle. But, once you get on some type of cortisone pills, you may not be able to get off tjhem and definitely an adrenal glandular is not the way to go if you have a-fib. You will need to take a medication that only has cortisone in it, like hydrocortisone, and not the other hormones found in the glandulars.

It takes just 3 to 4 weeks of using a glandular, or hydrocortisone, or Prednisone to become dependent and to weaken your own adrenals if the dose you take is more than you need. Then you are looking at taking a long time to get off it and having to taper off slowly. It could take months, depending on how long you have been on it. You might not be able to get off like me due to the a-fib that is triggered by the stress on the adrenals caused by tapering off.

So, my advice is to try to cure your adrenals with a good diet, reduction of stress, lots of sleep, and possibly supplements that help the adrenals. If you think you might have something more serious, then you should see an endocrinologist and have some testing. If you have more permanent adrenal function loss, then it might well be worth the down sides to go permanently on some cortisone.

This is one area of treatment that is not simple and it does not have any good solutions.

Tish

Thank you, Tish. You seem to have looked into this subject in depth and your comments are much appreciated. Without them I would have been inclined to go ahead and take Adrenal Extracts (I was also considering Licorice but as a cure for Acid Reflux).

What puzzles me though is that your comments on weakening your own glands' production of hormones is the opposite of what Dr James Wilson says in his book. He says that artificial Cortisone will do this but natural extracts will increase the function of ones own Adrenal Glands.

Any further thoughts on this would be of great interest.
Thanks
Sam

Sam - as I stated previously, this is not a DIY project. The tweaking of adrenal function has to be correlated with testing and the use of certain glandulars and herbals are definitely contraindicated as they will worsen the situation. It is also a cure that takes a significant amount of time...it's not like take a few pills and in 2 months, you're normal. Burned out adrenals take a long time to recover and it takes constant diligence.

Most functional medicine MDs try not to use cortisone.

A good place to start is with Dr. Schwarzbein's book that I mentioned because she bases her protocols on nutritional interventions rather than drugs.

Jackie

Hi Jackie,

Julia Ross (The Mood Cure) recommends GABA and Taurine for adrenal burn out.

What do you think of that approach?

Carol

Adrenal glandular extracts contain hormones that the adrenal glands make. The brain is a very sophisticated regulator of blood levels of thousands of hormones. When you take 10mg of some type of cortisone, whether found in an adrenal gland extract or in a cortisone pill, the brain (pituitary) sees that outside hormone has been added and it adjusts output of a adrenal gland stimulating hormone called ACTH down, because less cortisol is needed if you are taking pills. That means that your adrenal glands are told that they only need to make another 10 to 15 mg to get your daily total to 25. If you take pilll every day, then pretty soon your adrenals will have the capacity to only make half of what they normally would. After all you have put them on welfare and they don't have to work so hard.

The other thing to know is that the pituitary is extreemly sensitive and small doses of cortisone can shut it down or suppress it's production of the regulating hormone ACTH. Part of the reason for this might be that taking pills gives you a big hit of cortisone at once and this may overwhelm or turn off the pituitary to some degree since it is so sensitive to tiny changes in blood cortisol levels - like putting too much electricity to a small diode. But, research literature is filled will papers on how cortisone has a suppressive effect on the pituitary's ability to regulate the adrenals or put out enough ACTH. This suppression of pituitary output of ACTH can last many months after stopping cortisone.

The thing about glandulars is that they vary hugely in what they contain. Most of the hormone might be destroyed in one brand and in another like IsoCort, you can get almost prescription grade hormone. The hormone that is most frequently lacking in adrenal fatigue is Cortisol. Adrenal glandulars that are carefully made will contain cortisol. The body uses up cortisol fairly quickly and it only lasts in the system about 4 hours. Because of this, researchers found that the cortisol metabolite, hydrocortisone, stays in the system a bit longer and so this was used as replacement for many years, because it was more stable in the blood. Hydrocortisone can be converted easily in the body back to cortisol and used.

But, my point is that glandulars do not help the adrenals get stronger, unless there is no hormone in them and you are getting protiens and other substances the adrenals can use to rebuild and make hormones from. You can't really know what you are getting in almost all the adrenal glandular supplements. I can tell you that I have interchanged IsoCort glandular with prescription hydrocortisone and Nutri+meds adrenal glandular. These glandulars do have cortisol and other cortisones in them. With IsoCort, you need to take it every 4 hours. With hydrocortisone, you can go up to 8 hours.

More recently, researchers have developed synthetic cortisones, like prednisone. These synthetics are not found anywhere in nature, so they do not break down quickly in the body and therefore are very potent and last a long time and have side effects.

The important thing here is that taking hormones rarely increases production of your own hormones or heals the affected gland. The brain is always regulating things and making adjustments to keep blood levels of that hormone where it thinks it should be. Taking hormones is not always additive, like a vitamin. You are not adding that hormone on top of your own production, because the brain will just factor what you are taking in and adjust down the production of the gland by the amount of hormone you are taking.

Tish

I think you can try it but I know from my own experience and what Dr. Schwarzbein indicates, that without nutritional support, dietary changes, and testing for deficiencies, one may not make the progress expected.

I have every respect for Julia Ross and her Mood Cure book and I wouldn't have introduced this to the BB if I did not. I just think that in the case of adrenal burnout, patients need professional supervision and testing to determine what the body needs.

GABA for stress reduction is helpful for sure and we all love taurine.

I'm repeating once again, adrenal burnout issues are not a DIY project.

Jackie