Mg oxide against blood clots

Hello all, i have been lurking on this site for some time, benefitting greatly from the information amd experiences found here. Thank you Hans Larsen, and thanks to all the contributors here, you have been a great deal of help to me. I am female, 61, have had only a few episodes of afib separated by a year or so of NSR. 2 hospitalizations, afib resolved with medication after about 30 hrs the first time, a little less the second., short episodes that resolved spontaneously the other times.
The discourse about magnesium has been very illuminating, and of course i am worried about blood clots and stroke, as anybody would be. Recently i purchased Carlson's Mg glycinate and have been using it instead of the cheaper Mg oxide supplements. While reading thru back issues of American Family Physician on the internet, i came across a little bit in Tips From Other Journals about use of Mg oxide to reduce risk of thromboses, apparently it was successful in spite of the poor absorption of Mg from this source. I think you might all be interested in this article. The url is [www.aafp.org]
and the complete reference is American Family Physician 61:2, 1/15/2000, Tips From Other Journals, sorry i don't have the page number.
Like many others, i have been trying to reduce my risk of stroke by use of bloodthinning supplements. Wouldn't worry about it much except i do have high blood pressure, and of course i am getting steadily older. I can't use aspirin because i am taking a lot of naproxen for real bad old knees. Glad to know that the Mg oxide supplements i have been taking for years weren't completely useless.
Thanks again to all who contribute here, i just can't express how helpful you all are.
Peggy Merrill

Peggy,

Welcome aboard.

The antithrombotic properties of Mg are well known, whether the preparation is magnesium oxide (the worst) or aqueous magnesium (the best). In fact some claim that the initial studies touting the blood thinning benefits of aspirin were due to the fact that the aspirin in those trials was buffered with magnesium.

I thought the below passage might make you feel better about switching magnesium preparations. I too stupidly settled for magnesium oxide for a year before getting the message. Magnesium chelates, especially magnesium glycinate are probably the best preparations for oral administration (outside aqueous magnesium, e.g., waller water).

Improving Magnesium Absorption and Bioavailability
by Lawrence Bernstein, M.D
January/February 2002 Geriatric Times.

Magnesium Salts
The in vitro solubility and in vivo GI absorbability of magnesium oxide and magnesium citrate were compared (Lindberg et al., 1990). The simulated gastric fluids represented five different concentrations of hydrochloric acid. Magnesium citrate was significantly more soluble than magnesium oxide in all levels of acid secretion, but reprecipitation from magnesium oxide and magnesium citrate did not occur when the hydrochloric acid was titrated to a pH between 6 and 7, which is the pH of the distal small intestine where magnesium anions are absorbed. Absorption of the two magnesium formulations was also compared in vivo by measuring the rise in urinary magnesium levels, and the citrate form was absorbed to a much greater extent than the oxide.

PC

P.S. If you're worried about strokes, don't forget Vitamin E and omega 3 fatty acids (fish oils).

Hello PC, i feel as though i know you already [along with Fran and all the others] because of reading all the posts in this board. As a matter of fact i am taking both vit E and fish oil, and garlic as well, and have been so doing for a number of years. Have not purchased Hans's book because of a very tight budget situation, but have read the old postings back to january of this year. You folks are a very knowledgeable and inventive group. i am glad to have 'met' you all. You give me strength.
peggy merrill

Greetings Peggy
It’s true you can only lurk for so long before guilt gets to you .I think it’s important as we all know to take the right stuff having decided that it’s in preference to man made chemicals which can have some negative side effects. I think there is a place for both.
Doctors generally are good people who try to help however some have a more open mind than others and maybe become programmed to view and treat things in a certain way.
Fellow lurker
Chris H

"Programming" is maybe the best way to account for inadequacies on the part of most of the doctors one encounters, Chris. I think they learn in medical school that everything worth knowing is in their medical texts, and that belief defines anything not in those books as not worth knowing. No disrespect is intended to the medical doctors who post here, to whom this criticism does not apply. I do wish i would ever run across doctors like this in my own life, but since i haven't then the best thing is to learn to help myself.
PC, your posts have always been interesting and educational. Thank you.
peggy

Hi Peggy

Good to hear from you. You and me both about Dr's in general when it comes to AF. In my case it was a blessing in disguise as it made me take matters into my own hands. However if I was smashed up bad in a road accident or needed patched up I am glad they are there. I don't think I would be able to do much for myself in that situation.

Fran

Fran, i have read your posts with great interest. Thank you for all the information you have posted. You have convinced me to change my diet in a more paleo direction. I had already cut out what i call plastic food, meaning processed food. Your posts, together with my own research into the paleo diet, have convinced me to cut out potatoes and beans and brown rice as well. Fortunately i do not have your strong reaction to msg and free glutamate.
In fact, i am quite healthy except, of course, for occasional bouts of afib. As long as i am not having an attack of afib, the doctors cannot find anything wrong with me. I am too old, too fat, and a little arthritic, but otherwise in good condition.
Your strength and determination give me strength as well. It is good to know there is another maverick in the world who looks things up and studies and figures things out for herself. Keep it up, you are helping all of us.
Peggy

I'm glad your attacks are still few and far between. I'd just like to clarify my experience with free glutamate.

I don't think the very strong reaction to MSG or free glutamate comes about till the body has no more resources to deal with it. I never knew for years that it was such a potent excitotoxin - or neurotoxin. I believe in the beginning that free glutamate can be tolerated for so long - then AF would hit and somehow - maybe with the big P, clear the system and re balance it. Then as the years progressed the AF would become more and more frequent - as the inhibitors and minerals for dealing with free gluamate wore out and cells became saturated with calcium - until finally the AF became chronic. Some call it remodelling but by cutting out all the known sources of free glutamate I undid the so called heart remodelling.

As I never reacted to free glutamate every time it was difficult to say it was a definate trigger. In fact I had hardly noticed it at all unless I ate Chinese. It is only in hindsight, by experimenting with total elimination based on research I had read that I found my underlying culprit. IT was not obvious. And I think this is part of the reason I have such a difficult time getting my message across. Most people avoid MSG in as much as they know about it as an additive. But the fact that I could once tolerate home made soup with stock made from the bones, and no longer can, says to me its effects are accumulative.

Fran

Hi Peggy and welcome. Glad to have your input and also glad to know you are open to learning about natural health treatments.

You mentioned a tight budget, and I'd like to offer these two web sites for reading more about magnesium.... and not just for afib. Also, I've mentioned the book The Magnesium Factor numerous times - I've seen it as low as $6.50 plus shipping on half.com and overstocks.com... in case you really, really want to get into Mg and want to buy a good resource book.

The other two sites are: www.coldcure.com - check out the magnesium thread and follow all the hyperlinks.... you could get lost there for days!

Likewise...check out this one [www.mgwater.com]...

It's not just about water, so go to the index and check on the Magnesium portion.... lots of references from journal articles in this one as well.

Peggy, the wonderful thing about the BB is that we all gain strength from each other. I've come to know it as my support group or an extended family. No one can offer the support that another afibber can give. No matter how well intentioned our family or friends are, they just can't KNOW how we feel.

Glad you are joining us after lurking. As I said to Chris, lurking is okay... sometimes its necessary to validate the group before plunging in.

Truly, you've come to the right place, thanks to Hans and all the other knowledgable participants.

Be well. Jackie

hello Jackie, thanks for the encouragement. By no coincidence i have been making an extensive study of magnesium and related subjects. Thank you for the websites. Like all of you, i think it best to educate myself and heal myself.
Peggy

Welcome, Peggy! Like you and others, I lurked for awhile also. That's fine, and then I had questions, so I jumped in. Glad you did, too.

Fran, run this by us again? What's the connection between msg and not being able to tolerate homemade soup stock made from bones? (Since I know that's part of the paleo diet). I do remember you may have said something about this once before, but can't place it. Thanks in advance.

k

The long cooking process frees the glutamate in the meat, the marrow and any high glutamate veggies - eg tomatoes mushrooms. It is specially bad in soup as the water makes a chemical reaction and hydrolises it. It is by boiling veggies and meat that they make hydrolysed protein. It is by boiling bones they make gelatine. It is by fermenting starch with acid they make MSG (free l-glutmate) with d-glutamate. And the long term effects of l-glutamate, and d-glutamate (not made by the body) saturate the body so it is 'all guns blazing'. And why MSG sensitive people also have to avoid hydrolysed anything, gelatine, yeast extract, malt extract etc etc. Cooking changes the chemistry of all foods. So minimum cooking and heat is best for avoidance of free glutamate.

Hope that helps

Fran

How about steaming veggies? Is that OK? What if you could cook in a crockpot on such a low heat that it never boils? Would that still free the glutamate?

Steaming veggies is fine. I love steamed veggies with a bone in the middle. I'm not sure about crock pot cooking. I do think that the long process would free glutamate however. Glutamate is also freed during over-ripening and fermentation so any long cooking process would be a risk for me. I will check up though.

I've never owned a slow cooker and tend to like to prepare and cook my dinner in 10-15 minutes -and that is not in a microwave as it denatures food. I often wonder how fast food is fast food when I can do it from scratch quicker. Washing up takes longer....

Fran