Afib question about booster side effects in causing arrhythmia

Please keep this non political. I really looking for replies of your experiences if you had arrhythmia issues after taking the booster:


I had a rare monster afib reaction a month after taking my second Moderna vaccine. My Cedars-Sinai cardiologist back in April believed, from her pool experience with some of her patients, that the antibodies I gained from the vaccine to protect me caused my afib —and while it is a patient to patient reaction due to the stress to my heart from the antibodies, I’m just very sensitive.

I was ready to get my moderna vaccine last week however I called up my assigned NP for a refill. I asked her opinion of getting a booster due to a possible speculation. She replied I’m on a winning streak of 47 days ER free and I should not get the vaccine yet because it could be arrhythmic in my situation. She suggested getting an antibody test to see if perhaps I’m still protected so I can delay getting the booster. My last vaccine was in February so the six months rule to get the booster applies.

Has anyone gotten a real bad /increase episodes afibs a month after a moderna vaccine or booster?

I respect the no covid posting. I solely wanted to know if anyone experienced an increase afib a month afterwards?

Update: I just got another daily AF/AT episode minutes ago. I’m getting them daily now. The past 47 days they all quickly self converted on their own. Tonight’s 45-50 second episode was intense. My heart rate felt like it surpassed my former 204 high hr. I felt like fainting. Thus I’m not sure if I should risk the booster since I’m sensitive. Anyone who had arrhythmia issues after their booster or vaccine please post your experience. Thanks!

One of my cardiac nurses (large hosptial) got rapid heartbeat after the first vax.(Not afib). The advising doctors said to hold off on even the second. I personally think getting the antibodies is super wise. You can still take precautions otherwise when out. And.. it sounds like you have gotten medical advice from someone you trust. That goes a long way in my book. With that antibody info in hand you are better prepped to make a good decision. IMHO. (I am not a doctor and don't play on on the internet.)

An advantage of a Metronics pacemaker is if I get a super fast tachycardia or AFib, the pacemaker is 24/7 recording it. My AF/AT burden shown in my last interrogation pacemaker download report was .1%… so I can get a sense on my pre-booster tachycardia/afib burden baseline average. If I get the booster I will be pacemaker monitored to know if the booster’s rush of new covid antibodies is actually pro-arrhythmic or not to my heart.

As I reported here I got an episode the morning after a J&J shot at the end of May, after completing the Pfizer series in mid-March. I can't claim the shot was causal in this situation, but was associated.

Thanks George! My cardiologist made sense that it was the antibodies from the vaccine that possibly is the cause of my monster afib. She said the antibodies usually occurs around 4 weeks after the second dose..but everyone is different. Maybe that is the timeframe of an afib reaction to occur from the production of antibodies.

I'm up against a wall my employer will terminate my employment if I don't receive the jab. I have asked here in the past but was met with some hostility about gaining medical exemption for the Covid jab. Now I'm getting really concerned about it after hearing these stories.

Has anyone gotten a medical exemption from their doctor? It's gotten so politicized that you can't even ask questions about potential side effects. I fear good doctors are to scared to sign off on anything that could get them in the crosshairs of the mob

Thanks!!

Doctors aren't scared of signing medical exemptions. They're simply not buying into the hysteria and anti-vax propaganda. Very, very few people actually qualify for an exemption, and those would be the people with known allergies to the vaccine or its ingredients, people with unusual immune system problems, people undergoing bone marrow transplants, and things like that. Nothing that applies to the average person, and afib certainly isn't basis for an exemption.

No side effects have been reported here that are provably related to the vaccine other than brief, transient reactions right after the vaccine such as a sore arm, feverish feeling, etc. Is it possible that the immune response could trigger an afib episode? I suppose because other things that cause inflammation are known to do that, but millions of people with afib have received the vaccine with absolutely no harmful effects. Imagining some sort of horrible outcome is totally unfounded. These vaccines have proven remarkably safe, safer than most vaccines, by the largest clinical trial in history. I mean, seriously, 7.25 BILLION doses of the vaccine have been given worldwide with very few serious side effects and no proven deaths, so there is no doubt whatsoever this vaccine is remarkably safe.

Would you rather risk experiencing an afib episode or death? Or perhaps being debilitated by long COVID? That's the actual choice you're facing. I don't find that a difficult decision. I mean, seriously, you would give up your job over a proven safe vaccine? Why?

Quote
Carey
Doctors aren't scared of signing medical exemptions…

You probably can find a doctor to write you an exemption letter for the covid vaxx. This reminded me of a memory of my childhood when during recess all the kids were obligated to stand in line for a smallpox vaxx from the school nurse…well almost every kid. My parents had a doctor write a letter for me to be exempted. I don’t have any memories of any medical reason why I was exempted.

With this pandemic, I immediately got my shot. It’s the booster I’m hesitant to get because of my reaction to the second vaccine…thus me starting this thread seeking out others here who also had a reaction.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2021 03:58AM by susan.d.

I partaken in a side effects vaccine surveys at two sites.

[info.eurekaplatform.org]

The second survey (V-Safe) did mention arrhythmia as a symptom during the surveys. It is not listed now online since I no longer get surveys. That doesn’t mean it’s a real side effect, maybe they were just collecting data:
[www.cdc.gov]

When I clicked “other” and “arrhythmia” as a description of “other” symptoms, I got a call from CDC.

I have read that the Covid vaxx can give you increases heart rate and blood pressure. Has anyone had increased HR or blood pressure after their covid vaxx? My heart rate is still higher then pre ablation levels, this has me concerned..

Thanks!!

Quote
Kleinkp
I have read that the Covid vaxx can give you increases heart rate and blood pressure. Has anyone had increased HR or blood pressure after their covid vaxx? My heart rate is still higher then pre ablation levels, this has me concerned..

Thanks!!

Take part in this new study of the effects of covid vaccine antibodies if you qualify.
[www.embarc-study.org]

Quote
Kleinkp
I have read that the Covid vaxx can give you increases heart rate and blood pressure. Has anyone had increased HR or blood pressure after their covid vaxx? My heart rate is still higher then pre ablation levels, this has me concerned..

No, I did not experience increased HR or BP following either of my Moderna vaccines.

An increased HR following ablation is perfectly normal and to be expected, and it can last a surprisingly long time, upwards of a year for some people. It's nothing to be concerned about.

1.5 years post successful Ablation still have resting rate mid to high 80's. Adding in extra exercise to see if that can help.

My employment also rest on the fact that I can pass a DOT physical so I'm probably overly paranoid about anything that goes into my body.

Yeah, 1.5 years is a long time. What was your resting HR before the ablation? Have your weight or exercise habits changed?

A vaccine isn't going to cause you to fail a DOT physical, but COVID will for sure.

Tell you the truth I'm not sure what my tru resting rate prior was because of all the damn meds I was on. 53ish with meds (flex and met).

Looked back 8 yrs prior to meds and afibb looked like it was around 70's.

Never was a true exercise man but relied on farm chores and yard work to provide my activity levels. Recently have added in some exercise so will see if that can lower it into the 70's

Last ablation 22 months ago. Current resting pulse - 58. High 60's after the last ablation. Age - 76. Very fit - golf twice a week, 1 hr. weight workout twice a week, swim 1 mile twice a week. BMI = 22. I take no prescriptions other than Flecainide if afib shows up (pill in a pocket), but it's been 15 months since the last afib.

No meds. 41yr old 6'4 205 fairly active but no set exercising up until about a week ago, BMI is 24. Hoping the exercise and maybe getting BMI down to 22-23 will help. Diet of lean meats fruit and veg and no alcohol. Pulse sitting here is 83???

Quote
Ken
Last ablation 22 months ago. Current resting pulse - 58. High 60's after the last ablation. Age - 76. Very fit - golf twice a week, 1 hr. weight workout twice a week, swim 1 mile twice a week. BMI = 22. I take no prescriptions other than Flecainide if afib shows up (pill in a pocket), but it's been 15 months since the last afib.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2021 08:01PM by Kleinkp.

Quote
Kleinkp
I have read that the Covid vaxx can give you increases heart rate and blood pressure. Has anyone had increased HR or blood pressure after their covid vaxx? My heart rate is still higher then pre ablation levels, this has me concerned..

I've had both Pfizer shots & a J&J. No HR or BP increase. I'm 66 and do take flec PIP. I track heart rate overnight and it usually drops to 43 or 44 low with a 49 ish average. BP is generally 110ish over 60. I'm now 5'11" and 167#. I am fit.

George you always have such good natural healing advice. Can you give me some advice on how to possibly get my resting heart rate down? 6'4 male 205lbs fairly active (yard work) just recently added in daily set exercising. Diet of leaner meats fruits and veg (alittle heavy on fruits) avoid extra carbs ie breads/ pasta. Any advice guidance would be greatly appreciated!! Ohh blood pressure always in normal range 111/58 today heart rate was 85 at the reading.

Much appreciated!!

Quote
GeorgeN

I have read that the Covid vaxx can give you increases heart rate and blood pressure. Has anyone had increased HR or blood pressure after their covid vaxx? My heart rate is still higher then pre ablation levels, this has me concerned..


I've had both Pfizer shots & a J&J. No HR or BP increase. I'm 66 and do take flec PIP. I track heart rate overnight and it usually drops to 43 or 44 low with a 49 ish average. BP is generally 110ish over 60. I'm now 5'11" and 167#. I am fit.

Kleinkp,

My recollection is that aerobic fitness reduces resting heart rate. Something you can research on-line. Basically, training/conditioning your heart to pump more efficiently. My resting heart rate has always been on the low side, but I was a competitive swimmer for 15 years and competed in the 1968 Olympics, so I had many, many miles of training under my belt early on (max daily training in my day was 6 miles). I also did moderated jogging for decades and lots of windsurfing, hiking, mountain climbing and golf. I only started swimming again (two years ago) after a hip replacement took jogging off the plan.

Muscles work best when they are "conditioned" and your heart is the most important muscle you have. And, I have no special diet, I eat what I want, but the volume is relatively low.

Quote
Kleinkp
George you always have such good natural healing advice. Can you give me some advice on how to possibly get my resting heart rate down? 6'4 male 205lbs fairly active (yard work) just recently added in daily set exercising. Diet of leaner meats fruits and veg (alittle heavy on fruits) avoid extra carbs ie breads/ pasta. Any advice guidance would be greatly appreciated!! Ohh blood pressure always in normal range 111/58 today heart rate was 85 at the reading.

My non-medical opinion is that your high resting heart rate may be either still related to your ablation or conditioning.

In this study,

Quote

Methods and results: We studied 991 AF patients (75% male, 58 ± 11 years old, 70% paroxysmal AF) with HR variability (HRV) at 3 months and 1 year after catheter ablation, and pre- and post-1-year echocardiograms. Post-AF ablation high sinus HR was defined as an average HR greater than 2 SD (≥92 bpm) as measured by 24 h Holter. (1) Average HR increased significantly (P< 0.001), and PA-HSR was observed in 28 patients (2.8%) 3 months after AF ablation. At 1 year after catheter ablation, 21% were taking β-blockers and 36% maintained an average HR of ≥92 bpm. (2) Post-AF ablation high sinus HR was independently associated with pre-procedural high average HR (OR 1.097; 95% CI 1.029-1.169, P= 0.005), high left atrium (LA) electrogram voltage (OR 3.545; 95% CI 1.183-10.618, P= 0.024), and reduced root mean square of differences between successive NN intervals (rMSSD) at 3 months HRV (OR 0.959; 95% CI 0.919-0.999, P= 0.047). (3) At 1 year echocardiography, size reduction of LA (P= 0.055) or LV (P= 0.372) and the improvement in ejection fraction (P= 0.529) were not significantly different between patients with PA-HSR and those without. (4) Throughout 27 ± 17 months of follow-up, patients with PA-HSR showed significantly lower clinical recurrence than those without (log rank, P= 0.020).

Conclusion: Post-AF ablation high sinus HR was observed in patients with smaller LA size and higher LA electrogram voltage and significant vagal modulation without adverse cardiac effects. Post-AF ablation high sinus HR was associated with a significantly lower clinical recurrence of AF after catheter ablation.

(bolding mine).

Full paper

In the paper, they defined a high post ablation heart rate as >=92 BPM.

In most people, this will return to a lower rate over time, but you could be a person that will take longer. I believe the nerves need to regrow.

As Ken points out, it can also be related to conditioning. Generally, the better condition you are in, the lower your heart rate. As chronic fitness was my path to afib, I've had a low resting heart rate since long before my afib started 17 years ago. At this point, I don't think pushing it lower would be useful for me, so I train moderately. I've previously posted about training at a "Zone 2" (Z2) level. I've found for longer duration training, that making this the upper end of my exertion keeps exercise from being a trigger for me. The linked Iñigo San Millán podcast goes into great detail on the benefits of intentionally training at this level. Here is the Zone 2 podcast link (pure aerobic). A simple way to figure out Zone 2 is always breathing through the nose or alternatively the MAF protocol of 180-age for heart rate (more details in the link). What Phil Maffetone has observed with his people practicing the MAF protocol, is that over time, they can do more work at the same heart rate.

I observed empirically many years ago that limiting long duration endurance training to around a Z2 level kept exercise from being an afib trigger for me. After listening to San Millán, I realized I wanted to not only make Z2 a limit, but to specifically train at Z2 to get the mitochondrial density improvements they've observed. One way I've done this is through "Heavy Hands" walking. The late Leonard Schwartz MD developed this concept and then expanded it to include basically trying to do cardio with as much of the body's muscles as possible at the same time. He came up with a number of ways to do this and one can generalize the concept and come up with many others. Here is a Google Doc with many links on the topic, including to Schwartz's first book and many videos. [docs.google.com]

In the San Millán interview, Peter Attia noted his blood sugar will drop when he exercises at this intensity vs. increasing when at a harder intensity. I've taken to doing a 20+ minute Z2 session after dinner in the evening. My blood sugar (I'm not diabetic) is typically in a good range (tonight after 22 minutes was 94 mg/dL (5.2 mmol/L for those outside the US). This then set it up for a nice reading in the low 80's (~4.5 mmol/L) in the morning.

A Z2 session for me could be one of many different exercises, I just use a heart rate monitor & mty MAF (see above) heart rate as my guide, also always nasal breathing.

Three days after my third Moderna vaccine I developed a resting heart rate of 120-160 which resolved on its own on day 7 after the Moderna booster. It was unusual for me. Dr. Natale’s NP told me that they had found increased Aarhythmia after both Covid disease and after the Covid vaccine. I’m still glad I got the vaccine but may switch to another brand if another booster becomes necessary in the future.

Dr Natale’s NP told me the same also.

Did you get a half dose booster? Moderna is cutting the dosage for the booster by 50%- or did you get a full dose?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2021 03:52AM by susan.d.

This is the kind of thing that has me greatly concerned about this vaccine. The 1 sizes fits all approach scares the heck out me. With already higher HR after the Ablation along with possible arrhythmia and higher resting heart rate from the Covid vaccine leaves me VERY skeptical. Wish these darn politicians wouldn't have made it there big stick and would just leave it up to the individual....

Quote
bstevens
Three days after my third Moderna vaccine I developed a resting heart rate of 120-160 which resolved on its own on day 7 after the Moderna booster. It was unusual for me. Dr. Natale’s NP told me that they had found increased Aarhythmia after both Covid disease and after the Covid vaccine. I’m still glad I got the vaccine but may switch to another brand if another booster becomes necessary in the future.

Kleinkp- I want this thread open so I’m posting a favor of non political replies in hope to insight from your responses of negative arrhythmia after the booster. I’m very scared because I have out of country and state family I’ve avoided seeing because I’m concerned to get the booster. Today marks 58 days ER/ecv (I’ve had 48!) free. I want more data before I risk my good nsr fortune and get the booster. Until then I’m missing all the kids birthdays by self isolation until I get the booster so I could enjoy life.

Absolutely sorry!! My situation is mandated so it all intertwined and easy to state. That is all I'm wanting as well long term data. I've been nsr for 1.5 years now after ablation, last 10 months completely med free not even an ibuprofen. We had a local young women pass with heart issue after her J&J shot really hit home for us here. Heart inflammation really concerns me as well. Thanks for posting your information on your experience.

Quote
susan.d
Kleinkp- I want this thread open so I’m posting a favor of non political replies in hope to insight from your responses of negative arrhythmia after the booster. I’m very scared because I have out of country and state family I’ve avoided seeing because I’m concerned to get the booster. Today marks 58 days ER/ecv (I’ve had 48!) free. I want more data before I risk my good nsr fortune and get the booster. Until then I’m missing all the kids birthdays by self isolation until I get the booster so I could enjoy life.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2021 05:47AM by Kleinkp.

Susan,
I got the full dose of Moderna for all three doses. The several days of tachycardia occurred after the third booster dose only. Apparently aarhythmia or heart inflammation can follow the disease or vaccine. There is risk in every thing we do. The risk is much greater with the disease than the vaccine.
Betty

Quote
bstevens
Susan,
I got the full dose of Moderna for all three doses. The several days of tachycardia occurred after the third booster dose only. Apparently aarhythmia or heart inflammation can follow the disease or vaccine. There is risk in every thing we do. The risk is much greater with the disease than the vaccine.
Betty

I’m at day 59 er free. Eventually I’ll have nothing to lose by getting the booster once my streak ends.

The third/booster is supposed to be half dose unless one is immune compromised.

I’m going to request the half dose FDA recommendation for the booster.

I’m 61 days afib/ER/ECV free. Yay! I feel great.

I went with my husband to a pharmacy that was offering free walk in covid vaccines for the booster. I figured I want a life and 61 days was a nice gift in nsr but I can’t stay cooped up in the house since 2-16-20 any longer (other than for medical reasons when I do leave). I officially got cabin fever after 622 days. Since we had no appointment, they had limited vaccine reserve for walk ins. They had one dose left for the day so I told my husband it’s his. I am making another appointment for me in a week. Or after thanksgiving.

Interesting fact on the questionnaire-
[ibb.co]

Rapid heart rate is listed as an immediate reaction in addition to the normal soreness etc.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2021 09:07PM by susan.d.

Quote
susan.d
Rapid heart rate is listed as an immediate reaction in addition to the normal soreness etc.

Upon further investigation, it looks like myocarditis or pericarditis could be the source of rapid or irregular heart beats within a week after the getting the vaccine. These are not common side effects and are more prevalent in younger people and males. [www.cdc.gov]

I got a Moderna booster today, on top of the Pfizer series in March and a J&J in May.

Quote
GeorgeN

I got a Moderna booster today, on top of the Pfizer series in March and a J&J in May.

George- you had two doses of Pfizer, one dose of J&J and a moderna booster? 4 doses? Was your moderna booster a half dose or full?

My second moderna dose was on 2-21. I checked my ER history and had an ecv for rapid heart rate on 2-28. Then an ER/ecv and possible hospitalization (lost track) on 4-1-21 which my cardiologist believed it was vaccine related to occur a month after the second dose. Then I returned to the ER on April 4th I was for STV and ecv.

I’m going to get the booster after thanksgiving. I spent Christmas weekend 12-26 for 4 days and it’s not the best time to be admitted during a holiday when doctors are scarce and random hospitists run the show.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2021 04:04AM by susan.d.

Quote
GeorgeN
I got a Moderna booster today, on top of the Pfizer series in March and a J&J in May.

LOL! Of course you did. So when are you going for the AstraZeneca?

Quote
susan.d
George- you had two doses of Pfizer, one dose of J&J and a moderna booster? 4 doses? Was your moderna booster a half dose or full?

It was a half dose booster.

Quote
Carey
LOL! Of course you did. So when are you going for the AstraZeneca?

LOL Carey! I'll fly to Europe and get it!

Actually I was very conflicted about doing it. The data suggest that the efficacy wanes over time for both Pfizer & J&J and it has been about six months since my last dose. I have an adult son who has had glioblastoma brain cancer for 52 months (he was given 12-18 months at diagnosis and after tumor resection). His immune system is shot. He's vaccinated and in a nursing home at this point. I visit frequently and would like to not be the one who transmits COVID to him. The other side is I did have an episode the morning after the May J&J shot. It was my longest since Dec 2004 at 9 hours. My AF burden has been high for me this year. I'm still trying to see if I can successfully ameliorate as I did in 2012 & 2013, the last time my burden spiked. So far so good the morning after the shot & I have been hammering my system with even more than my usual high dose of magnesium. I also took 50mg of flec before bed prophylactically last night.

I copied and pasted Donna’s post on another recent thread of her reaction of getting the booster. Thank you Donna for posting:

Quote
Donna
I had a cardiac ablation 7 years ago. It worked and I have been symptom free. On Nov. 2, I received the Moderna booster and was very much not well. And then Afib showed up. Heart beat is floppy and irregular, but not fast. I wish I had known that the vaccine could set this off.

I was told by Dr N’s NP to hold off getting the vaccine until I get an antibody test. The results need to be >100 to be still protected from covid. My score was 36. Im still admitted in the hospital for days already—in theory this would be the ideal place to get the vaccine booster so I can be treated for the possible episode,but although they give the regular flu shot while admitted, they don’t give the booster here.

George- my GP also thinks inflammation can trigger arrhythmias so he started me on a herbal apple peel supplement that immediately triggered flutter and ruined my 69 days of nsr bliss. I might had well gotten the vaccine had I known.

I copied and pasted Donna’s post on another recent thread of her reaction of getting the booster. Thank you Donna for posting:

Quote
Donna
I had a cardiac ablation 7 years ago. It worked and I have been symptom free. On Nov. 2, I received the Moderna booster and was very much not well. And then Afib showed up. Heart beat is floppy and irregular, but not fast. I wish I had known that the vaccine could set this off.

I was told by Dr N’s NP to hold off getting the vaccine until I get an antibody test. The results need to be >100 to be still protected from covid. My score was 36. Im still admitted in the hospital for days already—in theory this would be the ideal place to get the vaccine booster but although they give the regular flu shot while admitted, they don’t give the booster here.

I’ve been having a lot more afib episodes since the Pfizer vaccine not sure if related but no other life style factors are any different