Lately, I am convinced that my mental state is causing problems. I went 9 months with no afib but over the last 4 or 5 months, I get a 3-4 hour episode every 3 to 5 weeks. I find myself dreading going to bed! I have been getting the little flutters more regularly, but the go away if I am up and moving about. When I lay down, I find myself sort of waiting to see if the flutters will start. I count the beats-8, 9, and then a flutter. Then I can't go to sleep, worrying if this is the night.

Like last Friday. All week, I had fought flutters. I felt the dreaded flutters during the evening on Friday, and I felt heartburn coming on. I had trouble sleeping, but must have dozed off. Woke up about 4:00 AM Sat morning in afib. I took an extra propafenone and managed to go back to sleep around 5:00 ish. At about 6:00, I woke up, which I usually do when I either go into afib or convert, and had just converted. But, I was worn out and grumpy all day Saturday.

Saturday night, everything was great. Sunday was great, until about 7:00 PM when the dreaded flutters returned. After a couple of hours, I took half (75 mg) of a propafenone, and managed to fall asleep a little after 11. The flutters did go away, but I woke up pretty much every hour, checking my pulse, and then going back into a fitful sleep. Needless to say, I am tired and grumpy today.

How do you guys deal with this stuff? The afib isn't really affecting me as much as the fear of it and the dread of the flutters. I am really getting fed up with waking up feeling crappy every few days. Do I need a shrink or just a little calmer attitude?

John,

You might want to try a drug that keeps you more stable. I take tambocor which works fairly well. Of course avoid all known triggers such as coffee, alcohol, large meals etc.

The other option is to consier a PVI ablation. The clinic at Cleveland (EP-Natale) seems to be the hospital of choice.

take care
keith

Personally i find kava extract very helpfull for persistent states of worry about things i cannot change. I take a teaspoon full, and in about 20 mins a great peacefullness descends on that worry, and i can go to sleep or not, as i happen to feel inclined. I am not taking any of the heavyduty medications, though, and i would approach kava with a good deal of care if i were.
Peggy

PS. i forgot to mention that taking kava extract in the liquid form, as i do, causes a temporary and harmless sensation of sort of tingling numbness in the mouth. It goes right away and is not harmful.
Peggy

The last time I had afib I chose not to go to the emergency room, unlike the other two times I had it. Mainly from this group, I realized LAF, while uncomfortable, is not life threatening. I told myself that and did what I could to convert, which was take extra magnesium, Omega 3's, etc. I chose not to take the propafenone and converted on my own in 13 hours.

I sleep in the recliner because lying down seems to bring on more PACs. But the recliner is no guarantee - my last attack occurred 15 minutes after dropping off to sleep in the recliner.

I have told myself I will not worry and fret about this. I will do everything I can to heal it, i.e., the diet changes and extra magnesium and trying to heal my gastrointestinal and hormonal problems. If afib comes, it comes, and I will adjust my life accordingly. And I will never give up trying to heal this. That's all I can do.

It also helped me a lot to get on this board and share my distress with members here. I got some very nice, supportive replies and prayers from others. Thank God for you all and for this board!

And I want to add a special thank you to Fran and others, who, even though they have managed to heal their afib, have stuck around to give support, information and encouragement to those of us who are still struggling to find our way through it. You could have easily abandoned the board when you didn't have the problem anymore, but you stayed. Thank you so much!

k

John:
I'm assuming that you take regular Propafenone and not "on demand", when you said that you took an extra pill. Unforturnately, the antiarrhythmics may work for a few years, and then we need to switch, as they loose their effectiveness. As Keith said, have you ever been on Tambocor?
I also have thought that Ativan was good, as long as it's potential habitual side effect is recognized and respected. It is an antianxiety drug, and also reduces vagal tone and would help you to sleep.

Good Luck,
pam

John - Oh, how I do relate to what you are experiencing. In my early years of afib...I was just like you... always waiting, checking and wondering. I do think the mind is a powerful influence over bringing on afib...of course other factors have to be "right" for it as well.

I agree with the suggestions to take something to relax. I used Kava initially with quite a bit of success. Now Kava has received some bad press. But, I found several other products that are very helpful in the relaxing area - and do not require the use of a prescription drug.

1) Bach Flowers Rescue Remedy - comes from plant flowers - distilled.
the dose is 2 - 4 drops, and one drop, knocks me right out. I never woke up with afib when I took RR, but I didn't try to make a habit of it.

whoops - hit the wrong key...

continuing - Frequently, I would take the RR when I began afib and I thought it helped to relax me and shorten the duration of the event.

Metagenics has two products - one is MyoCalm p.m. relaxes muscles and calms the nerves - great for sleeping.... and the other is a product to take any time - day or at bed - called Serenagen....it is a calming and leveling product that keeps the anxiety or tension from escalating. Unlike the MyoCalm pm, it doesn't relax to the point of sleepiness...rather it just mellows. Neither are habit forming and neither ever interferred with the drugs I was taking - Toprol or Flecanide.

Now, the other method which is even more important is to work on getting into a frame of mind where you accept the afib event. This happens after it has been in your life a while. I used to tell myself when one began, that I knew the whole course of the event...how it began, what happens after a while and how, eventually, it calms down and is tolerable.... I knew it never would escalate to the point of an emergency. I knew people don't die (usually) in the middle of an event...and I gradually began to accept this "thing" that was happening. It really helped. I was able to simply go to bed and go to sleep. Usually, I'd wake up in the morning and the afib would be gone.

I'm not saying this is easy, but what are the choices. We can over-react, panic and make it worse, or we can just recognize it, give it the time it needs and move on from there.

Eventually, I became comfortable with the reality of...what's the worst thing that can happen? Can I prevent it? Answer, No...so just relax and ride it out.

This doesn't happen overnight. It must have taken at least two years before I could actually relax.... but I know from experience, the more aggitated one gets, the worse the afib feels.

The other thing that helped me was never to go to bed without eating a small snack a couple of hours before bed. Always a protein snack....There has been alot of discussion on this BB in the past about the role of hypoglycemia for the people who have this bed-time occurrence of afib.

I'd suggest you make a log of your evening and see if you can identify foods, habits or something that sets you up for this nightly thing.

Just remember, you are what you think. Thinking or worrying about getting afib before it happens is probably putting your mind in a negative mode...actually setting the scene for it and inviting it in. Stay positive; focus on good things; concentrate on calming breathing patterns.

Lots of research you can do with the Mind Body Spirit connection that will definitely make a diference.

Good luck. Jackie

Jackie,
What is the "bad press" about Kava?
Carol

Jackie,
Are you actually able to sleep through an afib attack at night?
I try, but find that even with just frequent PACs and no full blown afibs, it is such a light and interrupted sleep - I wake up every twenty minutes or so all night long.- that I am exhausted (unproductive and grumpy) the next day.
Carol

Carol -

I have for about 5 years now been able to go to bed with a raging case of afib, do my mantras and wake up in the morning afib free. Sometimes because of the ANP factor, one has to wake up to empty the bladder and I would often find then that the afib had gone so it would be about 3 or 4 in the morning.

I usually felt, in general, rested yet tired from having my heart beat at the rapid rate for so long. My events frequently lasted 20 hours.

Jackie

Carol - this is the news - but since the South Sea Island people who have used Kava for ages don't seem to be sick, I wonder if Kava sales were cutting into some pharmaceutical's profit structure --- like for Valium sales or other relaxant-type drugs.

I always found it helpful, but then I found the other products and stayed away from Kava. Jackie

(PS - Hey - even Hillary sipped Kava on a visit to the S.P. What does that tell you?)



KAVA-CONTAINING DIETARY SUPPLEMENTS
MAY BE ASSOCIATED WITH SEVERE LIVER INJURY

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is advising consumers of the potential risk of severe liver injury associated with the use of kava-containing dietary supplements. Kava (Piper methysticum) is a plant indigenous to the islands in the South Pacific where it is commonly used to prepare a traditional beverage. Supplements containing the herbal ingredient kava are promoted for relaxation (e.g., to relieve stress, anxiety, and tension), sleeplessness, menopausal symptoms and other uses. FDA has not made a determination about the ability of kava dietary supplements to provide such benefits.

Liver-related risks associated with the use of kava have prompted regulatory agencies in other countries, including those in Germany, Switzerland, France, Canada, and the United Kingdom, to take action ranging from warning consumers about the potential risks of kava use to removing kava-containing products from the marketplace. Although liver damage appears to be rare, FDA believes consumers should be informed of this potential risk.

Kava-containing products have been associated with liver-related injuries – including hepatitis, cirrhosis, and liver failure -- in over 25 reports of adverse events in other countries. Four patients required liver transplants. In the U.S., FDA has received a report of a previously healthy young female who required liver transplantation, as well as several reports of liver-related injuries.

see rest of article at [vm.cfsan.fda.gov]

Jackie - my bet is you are right about kava cutting into some drug company's profits. Before crediting those reports too highly i would personally like to know whether the persons involved were VERY heavy users - abusers - of this product, what form of it they used for how long, and whether they were also taking in high levels of some common liver poison like tylenol or good ol' alcohol, or both [ a too-frequent situation]. And i also am struck by the fact that none of these 'poisonings' are reported to have occurred in kava's age-old home in the south sea islands.
Peggy

Thanks, all. I kind of agree with Carol; the PACs keep me from having a restful night and make me crumpy the next day. My afib isn't close to bad enough to consider ablation. I went 9 months without an episode, but the last 4 or 5 months, I get an episode every 3 to 5 weeks. Fortunately, they only last 2 to 4 hours. The fear of going into afib is lately worse than the afib itself! Like Jackie says, I need to relax about it and sometimes that works.

The weird thing is that I thought I was on top of it with mg and lots of hydration. For months, I didn't even have any flutters, and now, they are back. I may try some of the organic calmers and see if they work! Thanks for the help. John.