It's been a long time and magnesium story

Good Folks,

I was a regular until several years ago. This site was a major factor in my current fine state of heart rhythm health. Jackie and others were immensely helpful as I navigated the complexities of a-fib. I won't reiterate my entire story, but my magnesium experience may be helpful to someone.

After two ablations, I began an odd journey. While my burden was lessened, I started having a-fib instigated by swallowing. Not even a question. Every single episode, whether 10 minutes or 12 hours, was initiated within seconds of swallowing (not liquid, but anything solid). My EP was stumped. No other condition or action had that effect. I could feel it immediately. That was 7 years ago. I was already supplementing with magnesium (Doctor's Best, which has worked wonderfully for me). After nearly a year of annoying episodes triggered by swallowing, I begin to increase magnesium. It will surprise no veteran on the Forum to learn that increasing from 600 mg/day to 1,200 mg/day gradually eased the "aura" of a-fib when I swallowed. Then it disappeared completely and I decreased magnesium to 1,000 mg/day (in two doses). In the years since then, I can occasionally feel this "aura," which is really a subtle sense of heart tissue vulnerability. When I feel it, I jump to 1,200 - 1,400 mg/day. The "aura" subsides. I find that my "maintenance" level is now best at 1,200 mg/day. Several times in recent years I've been careless and slow to respond to the sensation. On those occasions, I began having daily episodes. Again, by elevating the daily dose to 1,200 - 1,400, they disappeared within a few days, as opposed to the year-long situation in 2009.

It will also not surprise veterans that the "aura" is associated with periods of high exercise, higher stress and/or careless hydration. All of these things can deplete magnesium, so the logic seems impeccable.

I have no question that there is a clinically significant cause and effect, because of the specificity of my symptoms and my relief, Nothing triggers a-fib but swallowing. Nothing relieves it but magnesium. I theorize that it is a vulnerable area in my heart that is prone to triggering when the intra-cellular magnesium drops. The correlation is beyond question, as the phenomenon is not "sometimes," it is every time. My EP agrees and is fascinated. He asked me if I'd be willing to stop magnesium and see what happens. I declined. I have no interest in accidental remodeling. I am, for all intents and purposes, free of any a-fib. I run 20-30 miles/week and have very high heart function and a lovely life.(I'm 69, just for reference.)

Hope this is useful or interesting. Comments or questions welcome. My best to all past and present afibbers, and thanks once more to Hans for making this resource available.

steve n,

Great story. Im in my initial phases of "bulking" up on magnesium. I just completed ablation #5.

Steve N

Thank you, your story is both useful and interesting. I've had three ablations (last one was LAA), I'm mostly NSR and mostly feel well and normal but sometimes stress and overexercising gives me the "aura" you speak of and many ectopics per minute which I feel every one. Really weird, sometimes two or three "missed" beats, then the same number of really quick make up beats, then back to normal for several beats. Relax and rest I'm back to normal. I presently take 600-700 mg magnesium/day (Doctors Best!). I'll up that to 1200 and see what happens. Thanks much for your post.

Try mixing in some topical mag too Mike. I like the EASE spray Magnesium Chloride-Hexahydrate from 'activationproducts.com' ... start with 10 to 15 sprays on larger skin areas with less hair and rub in vigorously for 30 seconds or so and let fully absorb for 2 minutes before dressing after shower. Apply 1x to 2x a day ... Morning shower and after quick bedtime rinse off). And combine with the oral dosing. Also take a teaspoon of Now Potassium Gluconate powder in warm water , as per The Strategy, when ectopy is getting annoying.

See if those tips dont help settle known the 'aura' feeling or extra ectopy.

Shannon

Sounds like the Swallow activates a Nerve and that triggers the AF.

Is your "aura" worse in the Summer?

Hello Steven.... As I read your report, I was wondering if magnesium is the only heart support nutrient you are using or if you have others in your daily protocol... and also the nutrient, taurine, kept 'flashing' in my mind as I read.

Taurine is highly stabilizing and assists in reducing fluctuations in magnesium and potassium. It's more complex than that and if you haven't addressed the body's need for taurine, you may find it helpful. This is a link to a long post on taurine...one of many... that helps explain the many important functions and how it relates to arrhythmia. [www.afibbers.org]

If you are interested in more detail, send me a PM and I'll give you additional reference links. Definitely keep up with the optimizing of magnesium including the topical.

Best to you,
Jackie

It seems to come down to voltage in the atria. For a long time I had thought of the problem as being one of high voltage from some unknown source.
I recall years ago an EP described to me the cause of lone afib as being "errant currents" and that an ablation might cut off these errant currents.
Now that more is known it seems that the "errant currents" are perhaps just the normal bumps of life. When we have sick atria , the left atrium, right atrium, or both atria are not operating at their normal high voltage. The atria are then susceptible to being knocked off course by these errant currents.
Anything that can restore the proper (high) voltage to the atria should help ward off afib.
Magnesium and Potassium must work in this way.

Glen

Glen - Definitely voltage = health. In a post four years ago, excerpts from the book Healing is Voltage by Jerry Tennant, MD, offered excerpts from an interview with Dr. Tennant on what determines healthy cells.... voltage.

Go here: Alkalinity, Healing, pH and Voltage - The Inside Story April 2012
[www.afibbers.org]

Here's a clip from the Intro:


All chronic illness is defined by having low voltage and by the ability to make new cells that work. If we have inadequate exercise so muscles are running at low voltage, we drink only electron stealers such as coffee, black tea (not green tea), alcohol and acidic water, we are basically going to go around with low voltage and not be able to make new cells. Jerry Tennant, MD

Cells are 70% water.

Cells run in a narrow pH range 7.35 – 7.45 or -20 mV to -25 mV. pH is a measurement of voltage in a solution

We can only get well and stay well by making new cells. Illness is a manifestation of the inability to make new cells that work. To make new cells, -50 mV are required.

When your voltage is low and you can’t get up to -50 mV, then you are stuck in chronic disease… because the only way you can get well is to make the cells to replace those that are destroyed by various forms of injury. If you can’t make new cells (which you can’t if you can’t get to -50 mV), then whatever part or organ that is damaged will never work right.

An acidic environment (low pH) invites disease states.

At a voltage of minus 15 mV or cell pH of 7.26, patients will be tired. At minus 10 mV (7.18 cell pH), they are sick. Cancer occurs at +30 mV or cell pH of 6.48) At a pH of slightly above 7.4 (salivary pH 6.5), cancer cells become dormant and at a pH of 8.5 (salivary pH 7.8), cancer cells die while healthy cells live). The higher the pH reading, the more alkaline and oxygen-rich, the fluid.

Moderator: What impedes someone from achieving that negative 50 mV and have healing?

Continue at the weblink.

Jackie

Thanks for that Jackie.

A Naturopath recommended Magnesium to me 15 years ago when afib first showed up. He was very opposed to ablation as I recall. I tried the Mg for a couple of months and had no change in my afib. In those days it occurred about every month or so and lasted less than a day, self converting without meds.
Looking back, my dosage of Mg was probably too small and I didn't try for long enough.
Instead I went for meds then 2 ablations. The first one helped slightly, the second made things worse, if anything.
The drugs worked to a degree and for awhile, but don't do the job anymore.

So it's down to another ablation or a trial of the only drug left, big bad amiodarone, neither of which option I'm crazy about.

About two months ago I thought to try Mg again. For the last year or more, my afib has been showing up about every 8-10 days and lasting 4-5 days. I use Metoprolol for rate control and it does that quite well. Nonetheless, I do a lot of nothing during those afib periods which are now devouring about 1/3 of my life.
After a month with 500 mgs of Mg daily, I had a shorter than normal afib session, just 24 hours. I upped the Mg to 750 daily and got 15 days of NSR instead of the usual 8-10. Again, when afib came, it only lasted a day.
So something is happening. I'm about to boost the Mg to 1000 daily and one week ago I added a daily bath in Epsom salts.
I'm also cutting down on dairy which I have consumed a lot of and reducing salt.
And rereading "the Strategy"

Thanks
Glen Breaks



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2016 01:30AM by worntorn.

Hi Glen - Thanks for sharing your experiences. I'm very pleased that you had the foresight to continue to push with the magnesium at higher doses. Doing it gradually and with considerable time, very often, the results are just as you have reported. So many influences deplete magnesium that often, enough isn't left for proper heart function. While the magnesium is of 'core' importance, you should also remember that it's potassium that gives the steady rhythm. But for potassium to work properly, you must have a strong intracellular reserve of magnesium...first. Then the potassium works it's magic. Take some time to read CR session # 72 [www.afibbers.org] Reducing salt is important so potassium has a chance to work.

And, as I offered in the other response... consider also using taurine to help balance electrolytes. Taurine comes in a powder form. Tasteless. You can put a bit in your mouth, chew to moisten and then wash down with water. Easy and very economical.

Cutting back on dairy is a good move; a lot of talk in functional medicine circles about the importance of removing dairy as well as gluten to help reduce inflammation which is often the source culprit in a variety of maladies that unsuspecting individuals have but are unaware of.

I'm in the process of updating The Strategy.... since when I originally offered it, I forgot to include several helpful tips that I use but which had become so routine, I failed to list them. The first is the importance of alkaline tissue or alkaline pH... and drinking the magnesium bicarbonate alkaline water which we make ourselves ... aka Waller Water or WW.
If you aren't doing that, it's definitely a must for overall health... and especially making new cells with the proper alkaline environment or voltage... as I commented previously. Another, is to be sure to test for vitamin D .... and if low, supplement -- as vitamin D is being touted in the news daily about heart health.

There's more, but I don't want to put you on information overload. Let me know how you are progressing and if I can help clarify. You can send me a PM if it's easier for you.

Best to you,
Jackie

No, the aura seem seems oblivious to seasonal changes. Yes, I've spent scores of hours over the years investigating vagus nerve implications, but no real connections that are clear and unambiguous.

Steve - with this "aura" description, does it seem similar to the neurobiological effects such as the euphoria of "runner's high" from the flooding of endorphins into the brain?

Jackie