Do You Believe Natural Blood Thinners Exist?

There has to be natural supplements that thin blood as good as Warfarin, Eliquis, et al.

We're told that you should avoid all these "blood thinning supplements" such as fish oil and vitamin E if you are already on a prescription blood thinner. Why is that?

Doesn't that mean these supplements may in fact be "powerful enough" on their own to thin the blood? If these supplements didn't thin the blood, or weren't that effective to begin with, why all these warnings?

I have talked to 3 different naturopathic doctors in my area specifically about this topic. All 3 said there are definite ways you can thin the blood with supplements but they weren't sure if they would be as effective as prescription thinners. They all said it's difficult, if not impossible, to test the effectiveness of natural blood thinners. With Coumadin you have the INR test. With the newer blood thinners you have lots of studies and testing behind them to prove their effectiveness.

There is no standard test you can take with natural supplements to test the anticoagulation and there are no definitive studies or tests that prove how much of X supplement thins the blood.This is what these NDs told me. I don't know if they are right or wrong.

I am making it one of my primary goals this year to find an answer to this question. There has to be a specific dosage of a given supplement (i.e. fish oil, vitamin e, etc.), or a cocktail of supplements, that can provide adequate protection for those of us on the low end of the stroke risk scale.

Does anyone have any information or resources to point me to to figure this out? I want to know the following to get started...

1. What is the difference between Coumadin and the new blood thinners? How do they work differently to anticoagulate blood?

2. How does fish oil, vitamin e, etc. anticoagulate blood? Does it work more like Coumadin or the new blood thinners...or does it have a totally different mechanism?

3. Has any doctor, researcher, etc. done any studies on natural supplements as effective blood thinners? I would love to find a study that says something like, "Those who took 5 grams of fish oil daily with 800 IU of vitamin E daily had anticoagulated blood similar to those on Warfarin." I know that's probably pie in the sky but you get the point. I have to believe somebody along the way has at least attempted to study these supplements compared to Warfarin (and maybe even the newer thinners as well). If not, there has to be some studies or research that provides some general guidelines of how much of each supplement you can take to "thin the blood" safely and effectively.

The reason behind this post is because while I have a CHAD score of 0 and "only" have paroxysmal afib, I'm at a lower risk of stroke than most, but the fact that I have afib at all puts me at a higher risk than the average person. Someone like me would be told to take a daily aspirin if anything at all.

I don't want to take aspirin. I want to take natural supplements (and I do already) but I have no idea what specific supplements to take or how much of each to protect me as well as a daily aspirin would.

I also believe that there has to be a dosage of natural supplements that can provide as much protection from stroke as prescription drugs...but maybe I'm naive on that front.

Travis

I'd liike to know the answers to those questions also. I hope some one knowledgeable can respond.

Travis - I wasn't specifically told to avoid supplements but I am aware that there are some that have blood thinning properties and I think you have to be mindful about adding known 'thinners'... such as Ginkgo biloba. Magneisum helps keep platelets from aggregating and I haven't lowered that dosing at all.

In a recent thread on Omega 3's... if you didn't read it... check here: [www.afibbers.org] we talked about dosing.

I definitely know that during my almost 20 years of afib 'career'... I relied on natural blood thinners to help keep me out of clotting trouble in prolonged AF events... many of mine were in the 20 hours plus range. And since I didn't do well with coumadin, it was a comfort to me to know that I was keeping my 'platelets slippery'.

When I began Eliquis, I cut back on Omega 3 dosing but have recently increased it to 3 grams daily. I stopped the Ginkgo biloba... and can't wait to re-start that again for brain health and if I am able to get off the Eliquis, I'll be increasing the Omega 3's a bit more - between 4 and 6 grams daily depending on what I eat that day.

I also test for the risk factors that contribute to the "thick, sticky blood" mentioned in several posts by that name to be sure I don't have clotting risk factors... and that would include keeping 'silent inflammation' out of my system.

See also-
[www.afibbers.org]

Jackie

I have posted similiar questions on and off for awhile now. I know Shannon had raised a good point in that you can't always trust the manufacturers of supplements to have what they say they have in them, so that creates a questionable situation. People could be taking Omega 3's for example, from any number of manufacturers, and some will have the correct amount listed on the label and some won't I can't imagine most doctors would be comfortable wiht that uncertainty.
Also...you aren't likely to see tests done on the effects supplements have on blood thinning, as who would pay for that? Pharmaceutical companies have huge piggybanks to pay for their testing, and will do that if they are looking to get their drug patented, for sure. But no one can patent Omega 3's or Gingko Biloba, for example. So I wouldn't hold out on testing of that sort.

I will add that the company I work for just commissioned supplement tests for other important markers...blood glucose, inflammation, free radical damage, cholesterol, heart rate, etc. and did in fact, get important blood tests results. However, these were not done for blood thinning information.... As far as we know, we're the only manufacturer to ever get positive results for the effects of supplementation....maybe the blood viscosisty and thinning will be in a future test, who knows?

I will be seeing Dr. Natale this Saturday at an Electrophysiology conference, and am eager to hear what he has to say about my need to stay on Eliquis, as my LA appendage velocity increased from 40 last year to 58.5 this year! Now to see what the A wave situation is...

In the meantime, it sounds like we are safe to take a medium dose of Omega 3's at the very least...and as Shannon says, more information is coming out about this all the time. Stay tuned... hopefully more answers to follow.


Barb

NO NONO NONONO!
A stroke is forever....trust me I've been there! AFIB stroke are the most devastating!

McHale

Hello Mchale, what are you trying to say here? Specifically, what does that NO apply to?

PeggyM

You know what I'm saying....NO!!! to natural blood thinners when you have AFIB!

McHale