A / Fib after starting taking Glucosamine

Dear members ,
I have been a member of this forum for many years and I have always found it very helpful .
The problem that I had last Saturday morning was I had been getting stronger than normal A/ Fib for about 4 to 5 days just before Christmas , I am normally in Perm A/fib which I have learned to live with for the past 8 years since my Aorta valve replacement and a failed Maze treatment.
I take 190mg Betaloc daily , 2 x 2 mg Terazosin and my Warfarin which I monitor my self , I also take 1500mg of Krill oil daily .
On Saturday morning I woke up and told my wife that I felt I was in trouble with very rapid A/Fib and an elevated BP so my daughter called and ambulance and they arrived very quickly , the Paramedic said that my pulse was between 150 to 180 , I had no chest pains or shortness of breath apart from the anxiousness causing me to breath heavy , just prior to the ambulance arriving I took a 2mg Clonazepam to hopefully calm me down .
They took me to Auckland central Hospital along with my wife to accompany me , when we went into A and E and the did and ECG / Blood tests / Urine tests / X Rays etc and after about 1 and 1/2 hours I started to calm down and my pulse came down and My ECG had settled into a normal state .
Nothing showed up on the bloods or the X Rays or the urine test , they were aware that I had an irregular heartbeat and at the point my BP settled down to 128/78 with a pulse of about 88 bpm .
After about 6 hours I was feeling fine apart from feeling a bit washed out from the ordeal so they discharged me and said I was free to go as I had not had any heart failure or heart attack and I should just go home and rest but not to be afraid to take a 2 mg Clonazepam if it happened again.
The Doctor said it was possibly the Clonazepam that helped me ?

When we arrived home my wife suggested that we Googled side effects of Glucosamine on A/Fib patients and some records showed that it can have an effect , I have now stopped taking any supplements at all apart from my Krill oil and I am feeling OK but still a little weary of what happened as I had not had bad A/Fib for many years . Have any other members heard of this regarding Glucosamine at all? if so I would like to hear from you ...

Best wishes............Kevin

Hi Kevin - I recall that because glucosamine is derived from shellfish, some people have reported reactions when using glucosamine. If you are using glucosamine to help with arthritis pain, you could consider following an antiinflammatory type diet that is grain-free, (and often dairy free) with a low carb load diet that also eliminates sugar... all known to cause silent inflammation, pain and acidic tissue pH. Try the grain free first for at least 2 moths and if not much relief, then go dairy free as well.

Also, if you aren't using the WW concentrate to make the home version of magnesium bicarbonate water to ensure that your tissue pH is alkaline rather than acidic, you should begin immediately, as an acidic body (low pH) is not only electrically imbalanced, but also supports arthritic pain symptoms. It's easy and economical and, best yet - it works.

Best to you,
Jackie

Thank you Jackie ,
I remember when I was in Hospital they asked me if I had any allergies from shell fish and I said the only one is Scallops which can't eat but I can eat all other . I eat or have very little sugar apart from a glass of wine or two , we have basically a low carb diet and I eat very little bread and very few potatoes .
When you say Grain Free does this mean no muesli or porridge , do you mean Waller Water ? and where would I find that in New Zealand and what is the formula to make the bicarbonated water .

Many thanks for your prompt reply...................Kevin

Kevin - yes; grains are grains. I'm currently working up a report on this very topic so stay tuned. There is a large amount of researched information plus clinical observations on the detrimental effects of modern grains, especially wheat in addition to the gluten sensitivity issue that is currently getting a lot of attention in Functional Medicine circles. There are other common reactions as well that go largely unrecognized by our doctors and the connections to the escallating incidence of chronic illness is getting a lot of attention (fortunately, as it's about time!)

Yes...the Waller Water (concentrate) used to add to drinking water is made from the magnesium bicarbonate water concentrate recipe that Erling Waller worked out for us as a result of studying the formulations that led to the development of the Australian Unique Water.

You just add the homemade concentrate to your home drinking water ..or purchase the Unique Water. You can probably find a source online.

But...trust me, making the WW at home is easy. You can do it in less than a minute.

There are lengthier instructions at this link - ww.afibbers.org/resources/Wallerwater.pdf

Here’s the quick version:
You need…

1 liter bottle of Seltzer Water… not Club Soda… and no flavorings.
1 bottle of Milk of Magnesia… also without flavoring.



The Concentrate recipe

1. 1 liter bottle of Seltzer…. Chill in the refrigerator overnight.

2. Milk of Magnesia (MoM)… plain only

3. Shake the Magnesia well and pour into the provided measuring cup equal to 3 tablespoons.

4. Pour some of the chilled Seltzer into a measuring cup with a spout and keep that as you’ll be adding it back to the bottle.. and reserve that… about ¾ cup of the seltzer.

5. Take the cup with the 3 TBS of MoM.. and very slowly drizzle it into what’s left in the Seltzer bottle… It will roil up and bubble so go slowly.

6. Add back into the Seltzer bottle the reserved amount you initially poured out… Again..do it slowly.

7. Cap tightly… shake the bottle a few times and refrigerate

8. Check in 2 – 3 hours and shake again if there is residue at the bottom… this is common … let the bottle sit overnight and the next day it’s ready to use… even if there is still a bit of residue on the bottom. Each batch is different depending on the carbonation charge of the Soda… the bottle sides should cave in slightly as the reaction takes place… this means it’s working. Sometimes it ‘caves’ more than others.

You don’t need to store refrigerated..but you can.

To your drinking water…

add

3 oz. concentrate + 33 oz. water = 36 oz. concentrate which is a bit more than 1 liter (34 oz) or 1 quart (32 oz.

(I put mine in a pitcher and leave it on the counter top at room temp)…but you certainly can also refrigerate it.
If you prefer the 2 liter bottle of Seltzer, you just double the ingredients. I just prefer working with the smaller bottles although the larger are typically more economical.


When added to water, the concentrate provides water with these values:

Analysis:
Magnesium 125 mg/L (calculated)
Bicarbonate 751 mg/L (Evergreen Analytical Labs, Wheatridge, Colorado, Dec 5, '02)
pH 8.63 (Evergreen Analytical Labs, Dec 5, '02)

To insure that I maintain an alkaline tissue pH, I drink some of the concentrate at bedtime… about an ounce or two and sometimes I do that during the day as well. Don’t overdo drinking the concentrate because it can cause some bowel tolerance issues. Some people use it specifically for that purpose and it works well…plus you get the beneficial form of magnesium… ie, via the magnesium bicarbonate ion.


If you want to read more on the history and benefits of alkalizing and specifically with the magnesium bicarbonate, let me know and I'll post the links... there is a huge amount of very important and relevant info that was posted by Erling that is timeless.

Let me know if I can help more.

Be well...and Best to You in the New Year!
Jackie

Dear Jackie and Friends ,
After more than a two weeks now I realise that it could not have been the Glucosamine as I have been off that now for two weeks and I have been getting PAC's and stronger than normal A/ Fib bouts , I am confused as to why this has started after 8 years being in mild perm A/Fib with no problems .
Can anybody advise me as to what could be causing it , I am taking 190mg Betaloc daily , 2 x mg Terazosin daily and my usual Warfarin and my INR is 2.6 with self testing with a Coagucheck . The Hospital did many ECG's , blood tests, urine tests and also X Rays and they said all was normal , my BP is good 132 /78 and pulse when I am normal is averaging 80bpm .......

Regards......Kevin

Kevin - It could be that you need to assess where you are with intracellular magnesium and then, how your potassium intake relates to that since both are required to maintain NSR... in your case, it may be that if they are imbalanced or low, your permanent AF which is typically mild has become more "pronounced." If you haven't been supplementing with magnesium... or if your potassium intake is below the very minimum RDI... like around 4700 mg daily ... or if your sodium intake has increased and is blocking potassium function... then it may be that.

I think that if you start alkalizing with the WW you'll find that your whole body seems to function better...so the pH/alkalinity issue is always important regardless of whatever else is going on and may serve to help modulate other imbalances.

I don't recall if you are supplementing consistently with Mg or what you've indicated about your potassium levels... esp. your recent ER visit.... where they probably did some electrolyte tests.

Jackie

Hi Jackie , thank you for your reply , I am taking 500 mg daily of MG it consists of 1390mg Magnesium ( natural marine) providing 500 mg of elemental MG. it also contains these trace minerals , Boron , Calcium, Chromium,Iodine ,Magnesium, Manganese, Potassium, Selenium and Zinc.
I have very little sea salt at all and I mainly have pepper on my food , I am eating a lot of Blue berries and Strawberries , lettuce , carrots , very little red meat and mainly Chicken and fish.
So as you can see I am having a healthy diet................

Best wishes ..............Kevin

Thanks, Kevin... What about bread, pasta-- starchy carbs like rice, cereal?

You may want to consider adding a bit more magnesium.... unless your dose puts you at bowel tolerance because many things use up magnesium and 500 mg elemental isn't much... often we need closer to 800 or 1,000 and more. Depends on bowel tolerance and everyone is different so you have to experiment.

I'm mainly looking for what will help keep your heart muscles relaxed with a good base of magnesium... and then you should probably calculate on paper...with a log to know your daily potassium consumption.

Jackie

Kevin,
you are taking 1500 mg of krill oil. fish oil can promote palpitations in some people. This was also my own experience. Krill oil is even stronger than fish oil. please read the following post of someone in another forum . you can google the whole subject for more information...............................((Has anyone else experienced a dramatic increase in the number of PVCs associated with taking a fish oil supplement?)) I started taking a cod liver oil supplemnt about 6 weeks ago and have noticed a huge increase in my PVCs. Over the past few years I have hardly noticed my PVCs - having maybe only a couple skipped beats per hour. But since i started the fish oil supplement, my PVCs have increased to the point where last week I was having 4-5 PVCs every minute, that is, every few beats. I hadn't made the connection until I forgot the fish oil one day last week and my PVCs were much fewer that day. Took the fish oil the next day and the PVCs were worse than ever. Well, I've been off the fish oil for a week and back to almost no PVCs. Ironic, because I started the fish oil to improve heart health- I'm 44, female, excellent health - but I thought the fish oil couldnt hurt - now I'm not so sure. Even though my PVCs are benign, I surely dont want to have several every minute! No more fish oil for me until I have more info.)) END.

best wishes ,

Ben saif

Thank you Ben saif,
That is interesting as I have in fact been taking 2000 mg Krill (not 1500 mg ) for years and years and I am now starting to wonder if this has contributed to compounding my Perm A/fib problem after my Valve replacement 8 years ago .
I must ask Jackie if she has heard of this .

Many thanks ....................Kvntoday

Kevin...

I have not used Krill oil so I can’t comment on that. I have used daily for many years 6 grams of liquid Omega 3 fish oil from reputable brand names known for the pure, molecularly distilled version of n3’s… that aren’t as likely to become rancid. If rancid, they definitely can cause a reaction in the body and heart arrhythmias have been reported. I like the l liquid versions because you’d notice immediately if rancid by the smell… (fishy); whereas with capsules, you’d have to open one to know for sure about the odor. I also supplement separately with Astaxanthin which is featured in Krill as well as Vitamin A, beta carotene, vitamin D3 and Vitamin K2 - Menaquinone 7 to complement the benefits of Omega 3’s.

Cod Liver oil typically is not a good choice as the sole source for Omega 3’s because of the other components (vitamin A and vitamin D) which would probably tend to be too high for most individuals… mostly concerned about the A rather than the D and depends on the daily dosing of the Cod Liver Oil.

(PS I am not currently using the 6 gram amount since I’m on Eliquis and don’t know for sure about how much is safe to take…so I’ve lowered the dose to 3 grams daily).

Jackie

Kevin,
here is another post which might interest you:
[www.dailystrength.org]

I think fish oil is like many other medications: works for some, makes some worse. Cardiologist prescribed it for me. Said that over-the-counter was not always consistent. It caused Afib instead of relieving it.

It's been reported that some fish oils that are not molecularly distilled still contain some residuals of toxic chemicals and also that fish oil that becomes rancid will also cause AF.....

When encapsulated, it's difficult to know about rancidity without opening the capsule before consuming to detect a 'fishy' odor which signals rancidity.

The liquid pure molecularly distilled brands such as Nordic Naturals and Carlson's are more reliable because if rancid, you'll notice the smell immediately and you won't even consider taking it.

Jackie

Hi dwightsbride,
Thank you for your reply, I have come right now and I am still taking my 2000 mg Krill tabs once a day which I have been taking for 15 years as my Cardio and my friend who is a top Cardio says that Quality fish oil has been proven to be beneficial to heart health . . As you say it could be anything but I find if I do get any flutters I take a 1 mg Clonazepam and within 40 mins I am back to normal .

Kind Regards .Kvntoday