Any research or personal knowledge or experience on whether ablations for afib also eliminate ectopics? I can imagine they might do so with PAC's, not sure how it would help with PVCs. For me at this point with only occasional middle of the night afib, ectopics, which are primarily daytime and more frequent, are close to as big a hassle psychologically. If I knew they were going to be gone as well, I'd be that much more likely to go for an ablation the next time my afib has a significant flare-up. Thanks, Ralph

Ralph,

As I recall, when Hans had his ablation (2005?), he was still having lots of ectopics and the Bordeaux team gave him (timed release?) potassium tablets, which helped a lot.

George

Ralph

Since my ablation in 2003 I have had no Afib but increasing numbers of ectopics, sometimes over 8000 on a 24 hour Holter. The EPs tell me they are a nuisance, nothing more, not dangerous in any way, but they used to be very uncomfortable, like being kicked in the chest every few minutes.

Taking magnesium, potassium and taurine dampens them down so that I hardly feel them, thought they had actually stopped. Another Holter shows just as many but I now just ignore them and get on with my life.

Gill

In my experience with 2 ablations with Dr. Natale, both he and his PA (here in San Diego) are unconcerned with ectopics and very clear that the purpose of the ablation is not to go after ectopics. Like others, I have found that nutritional approaches keep them very nicely under control.

--Lance

Hi Ralph,

Ectopics generally do not require an ablation, though there are exceptions when PVCs can become too frequent and symptomatic. Usually PACs and PVCs can be controlled and minimized as George, Gill and Lance all noted above.

Frequent PACs while in and of themselves might be relatively harmless, prior to the starting AFIB, and before an ablation, they can signal a greater likelihood of developing AFIB as their numbers increase.

However, most everyone has some number or ectopics each day and either rarely notice them or learn to ignore them. Bug having AFIB makes is far more aware of any irregularities and its not uncommon to mistake runs of PACs or PVCs with AFIB itself when it may not be AFIB.

Magnesium repletion followed by potassium supplementation, and especially when your ectopics are acting up typically does the trick and quiets them down enough to get on with your life.

Shannon

Ralph… since ablation does nothing to restore or maintain the minerals/electrolytes responsible for maintaining the electrical energy (voltage) or electrical conduction of the heart and other cells via the by the Na/K ion pumps, the occurrence of PACs or skipped beats typically means you are low in either or both magnesium and potassium or overloaded with sodium. (see CR 72) Remember that potassium can’t function without optimal magnesium inside the cell as well.

Low potassium levels can be identified on an ECG often noted as low voltage.

Low potassium (Hypokalemia) causes causes low voltage T waves and prominent U waves.
[www.meddean.luc.edu]

With low potassium and low voltage there is a shortening of the refractory period (the resting time between beats). When the beats become too rapid or close together, Afib can be sometimes result in a heart that is not ablated.

In the properly ablated heart, you’ll still feel the missed, irregular beats as a signal about electrolyte status but it usually doesn’t result in Afib. However, once an afibber, we will always have the biophysical need to optimize and maintain the requisite amounts of these minerals/electrolytes.

There are 2,070,000 Google hits on a search for ECG wave low potassium or voltage.

Be well,
Jackie

Potassium/Sodium Ratio in Atrial Fibrillation
[www.afibbers.org]