Back in afib after 7 months. Question about ablation

I'm back in afib after 7 months. Here I lay at 2:30am waiting to see if the pip is going to work. I really hate this as I'm sure everyone here can relate to.

My question for those that have gone for ablation is, how frequent were your episodes before you threw in the towel? I've only had 7 in the past 2.5 years but it's a huge quality of life issue.

I've been thinking about Bordeaux. I'm only 40 and I don't want to live like this for the next 30+ years. I started a new job last week and it looks like I may be calling in sick already. Great. I was hoping to make it past my probation period at least.

Does anyone go for an ablation at this point in the game?

Monty

Ps. I know exactly why it happened, it was my wife's birthday the night before and I had a few beers. My fault, I know.

Same question I asked for about a year, and then went for the ablation. I was on flecainide but still having breakthroughs. Not every day and not every week, and not every month, but enough to disrupt my life. If I wasn't disrupted then I was worried that I would be. I gave the meds one last shot and upped the dosage. At the first breakthrough I pulled the plug. That was last summer. I remain grateful that such a procedure exists for those of us who are good candidates.

Monty

When I went to Bordeaux for ablation in 2003 I had had paroxysmal AF for many years, and persistent AF for 18 months. At that time the EPs I saw in London said they wouldn't have it done because it was experimental and dangerous. I ignored their advice and went anyway and I have never for a moment regretted my decision. I have now been In nsr for over 9 years, can exercise, can eat and drink whatever I like, and can forget about AF. Life is wonderful, and at age 74 I have just returned from a week's scuba diving in the Maldives.

If I were 40 years old and in your situation I would get to Bordeaux as quickly as I could, let the experts do their work, then live life to the full.

Gill (pronounced Jill, and female)

Hi Monty,

A 10 year trip on the dark side had me puzzling over "triggers", and like everybody I suspected anything / everything including something in the chemical "brew", so quit drinking beer. Now 10 years free thanks to Mg and nutrition I can enjoy a beer or 2, or 3, rarely 4 (not a lush) without trouble. The puzzle pieces have come together and they spell pH, and beer is fairly acidic, pH 3.7 to 4.1 according to Murphy & Son [www.murphyandson.co.uk]

Cell pH relates directly to cell voltage, relates to refractory period duration, and to the NSR / AF balancing act. Jackie put the pieces together perfectly at [www.afibbers.org] Titled Alkalinity, Healing, pH and Voltage - The Inside Story, it was put behind the General Health curtain for some unknown reason so you might have missed it.

The recommendation, obviously, is to raise cellular pH high enough that pH lowering "triggers" such as acidic beer won't lower cell voltage to a point where coordination through the myocardial syncytium (cool word) is lost, and NSR can be maintained. The whole story of alkaline Unique Water, hence its equivalent WW, was put together in celebration of Unique Water's 10th anniversary in From UW to WW with love: [www.afibbers.org]:

Be well!

Erling



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2012 04:52PM by Erling.

Monty - Erling states it well... work on your pH before you throw in the towel.
Best to you,
Jackie

Thanks everyone. The pip took exactly 1 hour, 40 minutes so with the 1/2 hour for the metoprolol I was in afib just over 2 hours. This was the first time I used pip at home since the first time I had to do it in the ER. It is very empowering to know I can make it stop on my own now. Still though, it's bloody disheartening to work your butt off for 7 months and then go for a few beers and blam.

I've pretty much decided I'm not going to take anti arrythmics daily. If the pip stops working or i start getting frequent episodes I'm on the next plane to France. I just worry that every time this happens I'm making it more likely that it's going to happen again.

I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet and I'm going to go back to healthy living and see what happens for now. I guess every year I can hold it off, the procedures get better and better.

I appreciate the advice Gil and I like your new signature line . I work with a Gillian and it never ceases to amaze me how often she's called Gilligan or Guh-illian.

Erling:

You keep saying that its the electrolytes, now it is the alkalanity that if we can get those elements into line, AF can be controlled. When I posted a reply to a poster about electrolytes and AF, this is what Hans posted back to me.

Liz,

Lone atrial fibrillation involves a dysfunction of the autonomic nervous system as well as an abnormally sensitive heart tissue which can be triggered into initiating and maintaining an afib episode. Emotional and physical overload are the most common triggers for an afib episode. While many afibbers can trace their condition to electrolyte imbalances and are helped by magnesium and potassium supplementation electrolyte imbalances are by no means the only cause of LAF.

Hans

So, after I read this, I became confused, Erling you and Jackie keep writing about electrolytes and now Alkalanity, yet Hans says that is only part of the mystery of AF, so perhaps you can enlighten me.

Liz

Hi Elizabeth,

Well, electrolytes are electrified atoms doing an incredible dance in-and-out through electrically operated channels controlling each heartbeat. Reading "Lone atrial fibrillation involves a dysfunction of the autonomic nervous system" is misleading and confusing. Like the heart, indeed all the body's cells and systems, the ANS is obviously electrical and requires optimal voltage to perform optimally. At the same time, all cells and systems require optimal levels of electrolytes (K, Na, Mg, Ca etc.) to function electrically. Of course all essential vitamins, amino acids, etc. must also be in place.

Dr. Moore's book set the stage for CR 72 by showing how high dietary potassium / low sodium helps optimize cell voltage by enhancing performance of voltage generating sodium/potassium pumps. Dr. Becker's "The Body Electric" was cited to drive home the point that optimizing the body's voltage is an absolute requirement in coordinating the electrolytes' dance. Since CR 72 we've now come to the full realization of cell pH (alkaline / acid) having a hugely important role in cell voltage.

It is absolutely clear that lone atrial fibrillation's principal cause is dysfunction of the body's and heart's energy (electricity / voltage) production and utilization (metabolism), and we now understand the significant role of alkalinity in cell voltage (energy).

In a nutshell, it's all about energy, which is why "the future of medicine is energy medicine", and the future of cardiology is "energy cardiology".

Wishing you the best!

Erling.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2012 05:58PM by Erling.

Elizabeth.... electrolytes are minerals and these (particular) electrolytes/minerals are alkalizing. When we have the right ratios of ..say the sodium and potassium, then as Erling quotes... the Na/K pump functions and the heart has the proper voltage. Voltage equating to pH. See the Alkalinity post in the General Forum with Dr. Tennant's explanation of how pH and voltage are synonymous.

Jackie

Monty,

It was surprising and a bit of a shock to learn that beer's acidic pH (3.7 - 4.1) is the same as the stomach's!! It's no wonder beer tripped you into AF!! The reason beer does nothing to me - besides a buzz - is because overcoming AF by nutrition was in fact by increased cell voltage. If you take the current BB lessons about energy / voltage "to heart" you'll save the cost of a Bordeaux visit, and future costs of poor health. Energy cardiology / energy medicine are indeed the future, but here you're already being taught their core meaning.

Erling.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2012 06:52PM by Erling.

Yes, I understand that, but Hans said that is only part of the problem, getting your electrolyes in line doesn't work for everyone, isn't that what he is saying?

Liz

Hello Monty, Five weeks after my Bordeaux ablation and all is still well. My AF was discovered almost 10 years ago and at that time it was paroxysmal but already lasting 2- 3 days per episode. Over the years my AF episodes became longer and NSR periods shorter until becoming persistent in 2010. Thats when I finally had enough and went for the first ablation with Pantano. That only lasted 14 hours but I was back to paroxysmal after. So Dr. Lockwood performed ablation # 2 which was a bit more successful but I ended up in aflutter. That's when I decided to buck up and go to Bordeaux. I do not regret the decision.

Cheers

Adrian

Monty and Erling - beer or anything carbonated metabolizes to acid ash and actually, beer and sodas are one of the most acid on the scale so if your pH is already bordeline (meaning your voltage is also very low) that's probably why for you, Monty, the AF was triggered. Low on voltage.

If you aren't making and drinking the WW, you should start. There is an abundance of info on this forum on that topic. Just don't add the lemon juice to the final product. That's not necessary.

Jackie

Hi Adrian,

Five weeks looks very, very promising - an excellent sign that you are "on the road" to NSR rhythm - forever!!

Congratulations,
Hans

Hi Liz -

Yes indeed, "getting your electrolytes in line doesn't work for everyone". That's because Mg, K, etc. don't on their own correct the cells' underlying energy deficit. Jackie's comment that "these (particular) electrolytes / minerals are alkalizing" does not mean they will alkalize the cell to the point of improving the cells' energy (voltage). That's why supplemental alkalinity - as in bicarbonate rich water - is so important.

Significant fun fact: The miraculous Lourdes water is pH 9.5. [www.kkglorychurch.com]

Also see Lourdes water [en.wikipedia.org]
Chemical analysis
An analysis of the water was commissioned by Mayor Anselme Lacadé of Lourdes in 1858. It was conducted by a professor in Toulouse, who determined that the water was potable and that it contained the following: oxygen, nitrogen, carbonic acid, carbonates of lime and magnesia, a trace of carbonate of iron, an alkaline carbonate or silicate, chlorides of potassium and sodium, traces of sulphates of potassium and soda, traces of ammonia, and traces of iodine.

Erling.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2012 04:53PM by Erling.

Hey Adrian,

Glad to hear you're still doing good, especially after all the wine tours in Bordeaux.

I've mentioned Bordeaux to Dr. Lockwood and he seems to be OK with it but he keeps trying to scare me with possible adverse events and with low success rates. He mentioned how ablation could cause aflutter "which is worse". I wonder if he was talking about you?

Probably keep Bordeaux in my back pocket for now but everytime I have an episode I get closer.

Anyway, I look forward to reading about your progress. All the best and here's hoping you stay in NSR.

Monty



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2012 06:07AM by montos.

Thanks Monty, So far so good. I don't regret my decision to go to bordeaux. I'm still NSR with the only blips being a missed beat here and there. Its that funny feeling that used to signal the onset of afib but it just doesn't happen.

Funny story. After the Bordeaux ablation April 2 Rita and I were sitting around our apartment and I got a call from the Uof A ablation office on my cell phone. Not wishing to pay the long distance/roaming charges I didn't answer but called them back right away on the free landline. They had an opening April 26 for my next ablation with Dr. Lockwood. I politely declined informing them that I had just had one in France. Of course the nurse asked why go there. The answer is because of the better success rates. Pantano (my first dr.) quoted success rates of 50% first ablation and 50% on subsequent ablations. Dr. Lockwood quoted a little better success at 60% /60%. Bordeaux quoted 80-85% success on first procedure and up to 95% on second procedure.

Truth be told I would have been willing to let Lockwood try again if I had been given a 3 month date instead of what I thought would be another 6 to 9 months. Bordeaux was willing to ablate me in 6 weeks so I chose them. Maybe it was meant to be.

As for the wine tours I highly recommend The one to the village of St. Emillion. It is a beautiful little town that I wish we had more time to visit. C'est la vie.

Happy in NSR

Adrian