Possible Off-Topic Request

This may be forbidden, but I will ask because of the tremendous depth of knowledge here, especially about supplements, and the need we have. Our family is struggling with osteoarthritis and resulting high pain in knees and ankle joints. This along with elevated liver enzymes, so I have been researching natural anti inflammatories that might relieve pain from joints without hurting the liver. If you have any comments or advice, write me privately, unless talking about reducing inflammation via natural supplements would be permitted here as a thread.

Thanks, and I apologize if this violates forum rules.

Ken

Ken - inflammation is always something that will affect afibbers and just because it manifests as something other than afib doesn't mean it isn't of concern... the same blood flows through heart and the entire body. If there are elements that cause inflammation, then it can affect heart as well as joints. So this is not off-topic; you can use the search feature to explore past BB sessions because we've discussed it in great detail.

The natural antiinflammatories we've often discussed include herbals such as Boswellia and Curcumin and plenty of Omega 3 fish oil. One particularly successful product is from New Chapter and is called Zyflamend. Han's iherb weblink offers it at one of the best discounts I've ever found. He has a link listing a variety of anti-inflammatories: [www.afibbers.org]

You can do a Google search about inflammatory cytokines for info about immune responses to various food antigens that cause inflammation. Gluten is a key stimulator as is the casein protein from dairy but there are many other foods to which the body reacts by producing an inflammatory response. There are specialized testing evaluations available. Avoidance of all gluten-containing foods recommened and very often, dairy as well.

Happy reading.

Jackie

Ken,

You might wish to read about Myofascial Trigger Points. I've got several posts in this thread: <[www.afibbers.org];, and the associated links.

In many instances, trigger points can be a source of the pain. A key observation is that the source of the pain can be referrered from a (relatively) distant location. For example, a pain in the thumb could be caused by the scalenes muscles in the neck.

I've had good success helping others by releasing these trigger points. The pain can be as painful as any you'd experience.

George

I have treated hundreds of osteoarthritis sufferers with treatments which passively mobilized their joints and given them gentle relaxed exercises for the same purpose.

All have improved and at least 95% became pain-free.

I also advise them to take Glucosamine, fish oils & Vitamin C but mobilizing is the key.

Ken: There's a new study out on how acupuncture reduces the perception of pain with no negative effect on the liver.

[www.webmd.com]

Gordon

"This may be forbidden, but....unless talking about reducing inflammation via natural supplements would be permitted here ....I apologize if this violates forum rules."

Ken, where are these forum rules? Who told you that any subject was forbidden here? Where is it written that permission is needed?

Hans does not allow discussions of politics because they are inflammatory, and he [thankfully] does delete trolls, but other than these very reasonable things, i have never encountered any forum rules, and nothing other than trolls and political discussion is forbidden, and i cannot think whose permission you are asking for. One of the finer things about this forum is the notable absense of all those items.

PeggyM

Peggy: I said "maybe"...nice to know that any medically related topic is ok.

Sam: the leading foot specialist in the city (works with the Cincinnati Ballet for example) told my wife to do calf stretches (hang heels off of step and lower) for six months (!!) and the pain in the foot would resolve itself. Guaranteed.

Hard to keep doing it. Hanging heels off of steps and dropping them puts big pressure on the knees (more pain!) plus the feet keep hurting. His "Trust Me" advice is hard to stick to. Have you heard anything like this?

What are "passively mobilized joints"? Can I find a description somewhere?

Thanks all.

Ken

2 cups of water 30 min before meals should help reduce elevated liver enzymes.
Your Body's Many Cries for Water by Dr. Batmanghelidj

If your water supply is well water,you should have it checked for microbes & chemicals.
The whole family suffering with it !

"natural anti inflammatories that might relieve pain from joints without hurting the liver. If you have any comments or advice, ..."
The anti inflammatory that i use is zyflamend. The main component in it is curcumin, the active ingredient in turmeric. I do not know anything about its effect or lack of it on the liver, but i know it will stop arthritis pain in my knees and/or shoulder within 3-5 days of use according to the bottle instructions, because that is what i use it for.

Every few months i get what i call a knee episode, not necessarily associated with any particular injury, where the knee suddenly begins to hurt me so badly i cannot put any weight on it and must use crutches to get to the bathroom. I should mention that i am probably 100 lbs overweight and have been so since sometime in my 50's. I am 68 now. Use of zyflamend puts that pain back to sleep so that i can walk unaided by even a cane, reliably within a few days.

Recently i got a "shoulder episode" where it hurt me to move it and it still hurt if i did not, just ached so it hurt to lie in bed, hurt so i could not sleep. Riding in the car hurt it too, i accutely felt every bump we went over. I am between doctors at present so could not get it seen and officially diagnosed, but a bottle of zyflamend took the pain out of it by the time the bottle was gone so my guess is that it was another arthritic type thing. I dimly remember the last of these shoulder episodes, it was maybe 10 years ago when i briefly had health insurance on the very last ****i worked. An xray was taken, and the doctor i was seeing remarked that as much arthritis as i had in that shoulder it was no wonder it hurt.

Cox 2 inhibitors were new then and she put me on celebrex. I took it regularly until the shoulder stopped hurting me and then abruptly discontinued it when the current bottle was empty, which turned out to be a mistake because every old injury i had ever had woke up and pained me for some days, even an old bunion gotten from shoes too small some years previous to that occasion, though the bunion pain had stopped shortly after purchase of shoes big enough. Abrupt discontinuation after regular use seems not to be a wise practice with celebrex at least. If i had been able to buy another prescription refill it would have been smarter to taper off it, i think.

By contrast, i have never had any such trouble discontinuing zyflamend. I am out of it right now but not getting any such rebound effect as happened with the celebrex. I will be re-upping ASAP.

PeggyM

Ken

Two years ago I regularly used to get flare-ups of swollen and painful joints in my hand because of osteoarthritis. I read this article about Honegar, a combination of apple cider vinegar and honey [women.timesonline.co.uk] and started taking it every day.

Since then I haven't had a single flare-up.

Gill

Thanks all for the suggestions. I will keep the forum advised of any progress we make with these or other suggestions.

Ken

Gill,

I bought a bottle of apple cider vinegar (for it's AI properties) recently but a slug of it fair old irritates my oesophagus! How do mix it with the honey to smooth it down a bit? Just stir the two together or warm the vinegar first??

Cheers,

Mike

Mike, i just stir the 2 together to taste, 50-50 with a little hot water.
Does not seem to do anything for me but seems harmless. I wonder if Hans' recent experience with a big reduction in ectopics upon alkalizing his acidic water supply has any bearing here?
PeggyM

Mike

I am lazy and buy Honegar - it's mixed already. I add it to my daily potion of Waller Water, Now brand potassium powder, and D-Ribose powder - my version of PAC-tamer.

I drink the potion three times a day after meals, when I am taking my other supplements.

Gill

Has anyone done a compliation of afibber wifes (or other family members) for associated symptoms? My husband was diagonosed about 6 weeks ago with LAF, and was put on several drugs (included Amidone & Warafarin). About two weeks ago I developed a pain in my left thumb joint, and a "snapping of the thumb joint." I have not gone to a doctor, but looked up the symptoms on line and it sounds like I symptoms associated with Trigger finger/thumb, an issue that no one really understands how it develops.

While this is a "verifable" condition, and causes me some discomfort, I have many "non-verifiable" conditions that sound like they might relate to my husband's LAF. And, I'm not really sure where to begin this discussion since my "non-verifableness" is related to my spiritual and meditation practices, where my tradition does not "label" sensations, instead I work on myself and being a better person for others.

Please share your comments, and ask questions....

For now, I'm taking P-5-P vitamin Bcomplex, primrose oil, and arnaca montana which has reduced the snapping sensation in my thumb and degreased the pain in the thumb joint.