Western Civilization. That's it. Pure and simple. You can slice it, dice it, look at it from any angle, from the most basic level of detail to the most complex; take it apart, puzzle over the cell membranes, P-cells, gap-junctions, the vagus nerve, the mitochondria; you can medicate it, burn it, cut it, do clinical trials on it, write scholarly papers on it, earn PhD's on it, build a career on it, and when the din dies down and the dust settles, there it is: Western Civilization.

We didn't need a Greek philosopher to tell us this would happen:

That having a phenomenal human body
+ a phenomenal human ego
+ insecurity of existence
= need for security
= need for control
+ having a brain
= scheming for control
= scheming for power
= acquiring power
= corporate power
+ corporate agricultural business
+ corporate genetically-modified food business
+ corporate chemical business
+ corporate insecticide business
+ corporate fertilizer business
+ corporate food refining business
+ corporate food processing business
+ corporate fast food business
+ corporate transportation business
+ corporate medicine business
+ corporate medical business
+ corporate insurance business
+ corporate public relations business
+ corporate advertising business
+ corporate escapism business
+ corporate ad infinitum (saves a lot of typing)
+ corporate controlled FDA, HHS, CDC, WHO, and so on
+ corporate/government dumbed-down education
+ corporate/government dumbed-down consumers
= corporate/government dumbed-down dietary habits
= lack of/imbalance of essential nutrients, amino acids, minerals, too little magnesium, too much calcium, vitamins, co-factors, methylators, and so on
= improper utilization of what we do get, mouth to cells
= fibro/fibro-calcific depositions throughout the body
= cardiac fibrosis
= clogged macro-circulation
= clogged micro-circulation
= dead cells (necrosis), all of which
= messed up conductive pathways
+ DNA mutations and faulty gene expression
+ faulty protein synthesis
= faulty cell membranes
+ faulty intracellular electrolytes, all of which
= atrial fibrillation.

Do the math.

Many afibbers find relief by going paleolithic:


- lots of healthy exercise running from s.t. tigers, lions, leopards, bears, escaping crocodiles
- lots of healthy exercise digging for roots and grubs, catching chubs
= lots of healthy food, well maybe not lots, but healthy
= high magnesium, high potassium, low sodium, high vitamins C, B6, B12, folic acid, high amino acids
= everything else a body needs to be healthy
+ wearing only a tiger skin -- if you get lucky
= lots of sun exposure and D3
+ no WalMart

See how healthy those tigers are, running and eating paliolithics,,,

We never needed a Greek philosopher...

Erling, but how does Afib differ? Lone Afib and Afib that follows other heart disorders or surgeries?

Lois

That's quite a list! Modern life does leave a lot to be desired but we should be careful not to idealize the past. Throughout history life was frequently short and brutal. I'm an amateur genealogist and it always saddens me to see how many young lives were lost due to infections and ailments that are easily treated today. Personally I wouldn't have lived long enough to develop afib without modern surgical techniques and antibiotics.

Most of us in the West (who have adequate incomes) have the privilege of making the best of both worlds. We have an abundant food supply and can make healthy choices for our diets. Nothing stops us from exercising but our own inaction. We can buy a wide variety of nutritional supplements with the click of a mouse.

Maybe this post struck a nerve with me because of recent events. I woke up one day last month to find a bat in my bedroom. I captured it and had it tested and it had rabies. It could have bitten me while I was asleep (I'm a pretty deep sleeper) so I just finished up a series of rabies vaccinations. Wasn't thrilled about it but it beats the alternative. I did some research and discovered that tens of thousands of people in third world countries still die of rabies every year due to lack of treatment. All in all I'm happy to be living in this time and place.

Hi Sue, your comments are right on.

I certainly could never idealize about the past of our human history (except for certain moments and places much higher than what we are experiencing today). If you feel that I'm idealizing the life of our paleolithic forbears I must learn to express myself more clearly. And of course there's hardly room here for a many-thousands-of-years bridge between that age and today. Lots of pain getting here, that's for sure.

I'm very glad that you were able to catch that bat and avert disaster for yourself!

Erling

Hi Lois,

(This will also serve to demonstrate easy retrieval of important information from the forum's CR 'library' ).

I'm wondering if Patrick Chambers, MD, our 'resident pathologist' at the time, might have satisfactory answers for you in this Conference Room presentation and discussion.

Here is PC's introduction; a link to complete session is at the end:

Proceedings of 55th Session
December 12th 2006 – February 6th 2007
SUBJECT: Is LAF Physiologic or Pathologic?

This Session of the CR is intended to delve into this question, especially via my recently published article in Medical Hypotheses (2007), v. 68, pp 81-287, on this very topic. Copyright stipulations preclude my posting it on the open internet. However, I can send it "to specific colleagues that you know". Such use is limited to educational purposes and/or non-commercial research. However, this is a username and password secured site and I feel that I already know many of you, especially after having posted in the CR since its inception. In fact my post on 1/2/03 in Hans' inaugural CR Session was the first. We are now in the 55th Session. THANK YOU HANS!!!!.

Quite a few of you participated in LAFS XI on which the hypothesis is based and which include the results of that survey. Our discussions have always been and will continue to be educational and non-commercial. Accordingly, I will be happy to provide a copy of the full text via email to those so requesting (just click on my initials above), provided you abide by the above restrictions and hopefully contribute to the discussion. Show the article to your MDs. Educate them, e.g., that digoxin is contraindicated in LAF, that amiodarone may not be necessary and that coumadin is definitely not, that prognosis is good and in fact better than normal.

As LAFers, we are all concerned about the origin of our arrhythmia. Prognosis hangs in the balance. Is it the harbinger of doom, just another ailment incidental to aging, or a manifestation of some controllable physiologic abnormality? If it is the latter, LAF is a mixed bag nonetheless. Indeed there appear to be no test(s) that might definitively differentiate LAF from pathologic AF. Although most MDs probably ultimately regard LAF as an early manifestation of a pathologic process, I beg to differ.

Although the results of LAFS XI and several of Hans' previous surveys suggest that insulin sensitivity and hypoglycemia may play a significant role in most cases and that MVP may also be involved, these mechanisms do not appear to be all inclusive. There are clearly others with LAF that do not fit neatly into this schema. Your comments especially are solicited in the ensuing discussion to help further refine it

ABSTRACT

Atrial fibrillation risk has been strongly associated with increasing age and visceral obesity. These characteristics are strongly associated with diabetes, decreased heart rate variability, and chronic inflammation. Lone atrial fibrillation (LAF) on the other hand exhibits a predilection for the physically fit and the middle aged, especially males. Given these opposing features, it is postulated that pathologic AF is due to cardiac fibrosis and other age related changes, while LAF is due to physiologic neurohormonal changes related to autonomic tone, insulin sensitivity, and electrolyte imbalance and that pathologic AF and LAF can be reliably differentiated via an anthropometric approach using weight, height, hip, and waist measurements. An anthropometric study is undertaken from an LAF database to test this hypothesis. Such individuals in addition to being younger and predominantly male appear to be taller with less central adiposity v. those with pathologic AF.

The ramifications of these findings with respect to insulin resistance, sympathetic tone, inflammation and hypertension, often associated with pathologic atrial fibrillation, are discussed. Speculation is drawn about a possible etiologic link with mitral valve prolapse (MVP), which is commonly encountered in the tall and thin and which shares multiple clinical features with LAF.

PC
==========================

The the complete session: [www.afibbers.org]

The PubMed abstract of PC's article: [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

PC

Erling, I'm sure your post is tongue in cheek and would add the following.

I used to live in Macau SAR in China just down the coast from Hong Kong.

When I told my doc there that I was going halfway around the world to have my AF fixed in Bordeaux he said why not just pop up the road to Beijing (Peking capital city of China) and have it done there.
Very suprised I then asked 'so they do ablations in China????' he said course they do, the place is packed with afibbers like everywhere else.

Barry

Erling:

Your math of 2 + 2= 5 doesn't compute. Our country is the greatest in the world because of captalist/corporations---I agree with you about our education, it is terrible, it is run by the gov. not corporations.

If you don't like the food industry, grow your own food. I live out in the country, I am the only one on our road that has a garden/berries/fruit trees, most people want to play, they don't want to garden.

Perhaps our bodies are programed to destruct at a certain age. I plant a seed, it grows, produces then dies, all species have a certain life span.

Elizabeth H.

Cmon Liz, Give your head a shake. You really think the food industry has our best interests at heart when they producing chemically laced concoctions and recipies that are designed to either be easier to make, have a longer shelf life, or are just designed to trick your taste buds into thinking something tastes good. Not everyone is blessed the way you are having the luxury of being able to grow their own fruits and vegetables or live in a house that they own even. Corporate America is at the root of many of the ills of our modern society. Take the blinders off. Open your eyes. Open your mind!!

Adrian

Thank's Adrian.... your comments echo what's in the post I just offered on the Dumbing Down of Society. Everyone is too naive when it comes to trusting that "they" have our best interests at heart.... the interests lie in making profits and at the expense of public health. As you so correctly observe, few people have the luxury of living on a self-sustaining farm. Jackie

Hello Barry!

No, it isn't tongue in cheek at all -- if it seems so it's only because of the way I chose to express in highly compressed form what has been covered in hundreds, thousands of books and writings since the dawn of our human history. This was just a way of showing why a-fib is sometimes called a 'disease of civilization'. But I get your point -- it would have been more inclusive without the word Western. And the cause of our problem isn't limited to the power of corporations, it's the entirety of the "dominator ethic".(2.47 million 'hits' @ Google)

Erling

Adrian:

Luxury? My husband and I worked hard, went without, we bought a place where we could raise our vegetables, that was our choice, people make choices.

If you raise crops on a large scale, it is pretty hard not to use some chemicals---without all of the inovations that capitalism has produced, we would be a third world country, not a free society, that is why millions of people want to come here.

I would say you are the one that is buying the hype, I am glad we have corporations, they provide jobs, we can feed the world. Buy fresh vegetables/fruit, cook your own meals, don't buy packaged meals.

Elizabeth H.

Jackie:

Why do you think I grow a lot of my food, I knew a long time ago that it was better for you-----things are slowly changing, when the free market understands that people don't want their foods laced with all kinds of chemicals, they will provide alternatives.

Educate the people, but don't comdem all corporations because they are making a profit, makeing a profit is why people are in business.

Elizabeth H.

Well Liz, you finally got me. I give up. Try as I might I can't find any humor to milk in this stunningly ignorant statement: "Our country is the greatest in the world because of captalist/corporations---"!! But it seems that you (or am I dreaming?) are at least able to understand "about our education, it is terrible", so I think it's just a tiny bit possible that you'd be interested in knowing why. I read this book in'99 when first published, you should have too. It didn't shock me, it just added dark details to what I already knew so very well:

Book, 1999: 'The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America - A Chronological Paper Trail' by Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt [www.deliberatedumbingdown.com]

"Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt, former Senior Policy Advisor in the U.S. Department of Education, blew the whistle in the `80s on government activities withheld from the public. Her inside knowledge will help you protect your children from controversial methods and programs."

"The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America" is a chronological history of the past 100+ years of education reform. Each chapter takes a period of history and recounts the significant events, including important geopolitical and societal contextual information. Citations from government plans, policy documents, and key writings by leading reformers record the rise of the modern education reform movement. Americans of all ages will welcome this riveting expose of what really happened to what was once the finest education system in the world."
=================

A few amazon.com reviewers' comments:

"This book argues that the academic meltdown in our public education system is intentional. It asserts that change agents have been working at the Education Department to change curriculum, not to improve teaching but to promote a socialist agenda. Their role is to create schools which will mold obedient citizens who no longer have the knowledge and skills to improve their lot in life, but are dependent on government/multi-national companies' guidance to survive. The system will create imprisoned citizens that will be managed from cradle to grave to serve the needs of the state's managed economy. The book is clearly written, copiously documented, and finally asnwers the question "Why can't our kids read, write, and count?" A must-read for anyone with children. It presents a scary view of America's future if nothing is done to bring back our schools to the excellence of the turn of the century."

"Iserbyt's exhaustive research regarding education and the economy has exposed the many myths and misinformation underlying the history of related reforms. Presented in chronological order, the author presents a stunning indictment of public and private partnerships designed to restructure education and the economy, and ultimately to redefine the very nature and purpose of not only education, but man himself. Teachers will find this book extremely useful and instructive in identifying and comprehending recent changes in education certification and training that are increasingly threatening to academic freedom, and driving many out of the teaching profession altogether. Parents of children in public, private, and home-schools alike will find Iserbyt's research equally applicable to all, as the new system is deliberately mandated for everyone. No student or adult is to be exempt from the new systemic education and labor reforms. Only by understanding the underlying agenda and strategies of the reformists can we hope to restore academic freedom and moral agency in society, and protect our children. A Must Read for every parent, educator, and legislator concerned about our children!"

Liz - I'm all for income and profit. It's the greed and irresponsibility that I resent - ie making money in spite of the fact (for instance) by making people ill.

A classic example is the money involved in artificial (diet) sweeteners.... that have now proven to be neurotoxic and help contribute to the obesity epidemic... These sweeteners were introduced to the consumer as healthy but are far from that. Even with adverse effects known, they have not been removed from the marketplace. There are no public service announcements educating to that effect. Why? We know the answer.

There are hundreds of similar examples and covered very expertly in retired neurosurgeon, Russell Blaylock's book... Excitotoxins, The Taste that Kills. We've known about it for years; not much changes. Some countries have taken steps to ban these harmful chemicals. Not here. Business as usual, it seems. These influences are examples of health condition such as afib as is the topic of this thread.

Jackie

Erling,

Interesting discussion on the shift from hunter/gatherer society to today. Viruses were non-existent in hunter/gatherer societies, agriculture put humans and animals in close contact and led to diseases that did not exist prior. Agriculture also led to wealth disparities that were unknown to mobile bands. And maybe most importantly early civilizations such as Mesopotamia, Egypt and the Yellow River Valley civilization were able to concentrate power in a way that had never existed before.I think that it is this concentration of power that you are speaking of that is so important to think about. With the concentration of power comes the need to create compliant subjects. And now it is worse than ever. And we in the US are at the top of the wealth pyramid, think about people at the bottom ? Where are all those goods we buy manufactured? Not here, but instead in places where many people have sub-standards of living. For instance, think about A-fib in a village in Indonesia, what would one do, Carnitine, Taurine, Natto-. The expense is undoubtedly beyond people's means.

In this regard, given our own health problems, the internet has saved us, where would we turn without an alternative view such as this forum?
Letter writing?

Steve

Erlling:

Why did you come to this country and live here if you think it is so bad? You bet I believe we are the greatest, who helps out other countries when they are hit by a catastrophe, the corporations give millions for relief funds.

What you are saying about our education system is nothing new, our children are being taught to accept a socialist society, people are waking up to what is going on and hopefully we will change it.

I disagree with you but I do not pick out a sentence and belittle you for saying it, I believe in the capitalist concept, so sue me.

Elizabeth H.

This discussion has now become non-productive, futile and of no relevance to lone atrial fibrillation. As you know I do not allow postings involving politics and religion. Perhaps I need to broaden the "exclusion list" to include capitalism vs. socialism.

And Elizabeth H. you are out of line when questioning why Erling came to the US. If it was not for immigrants like Erling and even your own ancestors there would be no USA today.

Also, while I agree that the US is a great and generous country it is no longer so great when it comes to economic performance. The US and Canada used to be number 1 and 2 respectively in economic performance as measured in GDP/capita. Now even the CIA rates the US as #10 (Canada is #19). The world is changing and now Norway, which Elizabeth would no doubt classify as a "socialist" country, has a GDP of $80,000/year as compared to the United States at $46,000/year and Canada at $40,000/year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita). I think we need to wake up from our dream of thinking we are the greatest and pull up our socks.

And with that, this discussion is closed!

Hans