Moderna vaccine recalled in California

[patch.com]

Nearly a million doses recalled. 5 thousand something used. Anaphylaxis reaction.

In vain for two days I’ve been seeking a ca appointment. Site crashes, and yesterday I was on hold on the phone for 13 hours 20 minutes listening to a repeating horrible song snd a verbal alert that the public health vaccine appointment site has difficulties snd to remain on the line. Yeah, they all don’t work.

I ended up joining a concierge doctor group (free trial) and got an appointment this upcoming week. But it’s moderna. Pfizer has yet to recall batches.

Would you risk moderna? I’m on a holding pattern trying to stay out of af/tachy/another MI and want to protect myself at the Er. But I live under a black iatrogenic cloud.


(oops Sorry Susan! ...I was trying to type a reply to your post above when I accidental started to reply at the bottom of your own post, and when I realized I was indeed adding to your own post instead of to my own reply! Alas, it is the rare bane of having editorial options as a moderator that occasionally one can lose track temporarily until you realize are inadvertently adding to someone else's post instead of adding to your own reply ) At least, I don't think I overwrote by mistake any text on your post above?? 🤞🤞)

(Cheers!
Shannon)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2021 03:47PM by Shannon.

Don't know but given a choice i'd go for Novavax or Johnson and Johnson if/when the stage III trails pan out; bearing in mind that the other vaccines are still on emergency release as well.
Wonder why nobody on popular media (and in the Pharma releases) mentions absolute effectiveness and NNT (number needed to treat).
Obviously you are not a fan of the iMATH+ or FLCC alliance recommendations.as an interim measure

This goes a bit above my payrate but is interesting:
[blogs.bmj.com].

Thank you Joe! I never heard of Math+ protocol. It’s worth printing up and keeping handy.
[covid19criticalcare.com]

Another concern with moderna is transportation temperature control to keep the vaccine’s potency from deteriorating. I googled Pfizer and didn’t find anything.
[i.postimg.cc]

Another question is should someone on prednisone take the vaccine? A GI doctor yesterday said there were no studies during the trial of results or side effects of any testers being on steroids and he recommended weaning off steroids before getting the vaccine. Does that make sense? Prednisone does lower one’s immune system.

I do want to mention there should be a strict system of multiple people visually watching, checking, timing and recording the length of time once the vaccines is taken in and out of the freezer to reassure a check and balance system to guarantee the vaccine doesn’t go bad and remains vital. It’s totally unorganized this week. Dodger stadium was delayed 5 hours dispensing the vaccine at their drive thru. Where were the vaccines stored all day? I’m the table between patients? Is it given frozen or is it thawed? If in the freezer they had to repeatedly open and shut the door thus lowering the storage temperature. Do that a few thousand times a day. At least with moderna it is supposedly still vital for 30 days stored in refrigerator state.

This is my (Shannon's) reply to Susan's initial thread-starting post from above, regarding what was a temporary pause ... not an actual recall ... in Moderna vaccinations using only Lot # 041L20A over the last week and that has since, over the last few days, been fully lifted by California Health authorities in charge of COVID-19 vaccine distribution.

The initial reporting noted that ... "a higher-than-usual number of possible severe allergic reactions from Moderna lot# 041L20A occurred at a mass vaccine site in San Diego according to State Epidemiologist Dr Erica Pan."

Just a few corrections here are in order that give additional insights on this rather confusing report as of this time on 1-23-21 in the mid-afternoon, MST.

The article noted that 5,217 people in Orange County had received vaccines from the suspected Moderna lot number 041L20A with no mention of how many ... if any at all of these 5,217 people had any symptoms. (Hint ... it's not a very well written article :-)

And while the website report is from Orange County, the rest of the report discusses ... "there possibly being less than 10 people who experienced anaphylactic allergic reactions in San Diego from this same Moderna lot number". And thus "out of an extreme abundance of caution" the State decided to pause using this Moderna lot number for a couple days while acknowledging it has received no other such reports out of the nearly one million doses distributed to 37 total states so far.

To make matters even more confusing the article states that: "To date, the HCA has received zero notifications of allergic reactions requiring medical attention due to any Moderna vaccines" ... according to an Orange County Health Care Agency Spokesperson."

Finally, "... it is not yet known if allergic reactions were reported from Batch 041L20A in the other 36 states. Hmmm ...

Bottom line, I wouldn't lose much sleep over this report. Especially now that the pause has been lifted.

Shannon

Thanks Shannon.
I am still trying to get Pfizer but if I can’t find a Pfizer appointment I will keep my moderna appointment this upcoming Thursday. I am buying time with sotalol before my next ablation and I will feel more protected in the hospital if vaccinated.

I wasn’t as concerned about the recall. The “pause” I feel is a public relations propaganda to prevent people from being afraid to take the vaccine.

What frankly concerns me is temperature control in keeping the bottles at a vital state. The screenshot I shared mentioning the moderna arrived too cold is an issue as well as the steps during inoculation to keep it at a proper temperature.

You are welcome Susan, a more recent article in 'The Hill' with the title: 'California says Moderna Vaccine is safe after brief pause.' ... is a much better and more up-to-date article on the topic in my view.

I wouldn't worry too much about either of the mRNA offerings so far.

I'm all set to get my initial Moderna jab on Thursday here in Arizona.

Shannon

Good luck on Thursday Shannon! The LA county health appointment website is still having technical problems because they haven’t removed yesterday’s appointments or offer any new appointments. Looks like I too will be jabbed on Thursday. We can compare boo-boos.

I found an opening today for a moderna vaccine. I’m still stuck here because I immediately got a sensitive tongue now spreading to my lips and roof of mouth. Feels like I drank burning hot coffee. They had a dr exam me and gave me Benadryl.

Boy I live under an iatrogenic cloud. Drugs affect me. Good luck with moderna!

Did Hank Aaron die because of getting the vaccination?

[www.ajc.com]

Liz I don’t need to know this.👀

Quote
Elizabeth
Did Hank Aaron die because of getting the vaccination?

No, and that's not what the article says. People aren't dying from the vaccines. There have been a tiny number of anaphylactic reactions, which is entirely expected for any vaccine. That's why they have you wait 15 minutes after receiving it. With competent medical care available an anaphylactic reaction can be easily managed.

Quote
Carey

Did Hank Aaron die because of getting the vaccination?


No, and that's not what the article says. People aren't dying from the vaccines. There have been a tiny number of anaphylactic reactions, which is entirely expected for any vaccine. That's why they have you wait 15 minutes after receiving it. With competent medical care available an anaphylactic reaction can be easily managed.

How true. A dr gave me Benadryl and had me wait an hour and had someone come by every 10 minutes and the dr returned 4 times. I felt safe and the reaction I had was benign compared to an full blown anaphylactic reaction. I had some sensation to my tongue lips roof of mouth and hours later my throat. It’s went away on its own. But it’s good to know there was someone available in case of reactions. My moderna batch had two patients in 7 days with side effects. A guy Monday was very dizzy and then me (to be expected because I’m sensitive). Nobody needed epi and my husband did fine as well as everyone else this past week getting vaccinated.

Quote
susan.d
Another concern with moderna is transportation temperature control to keep the vaccine’s potency from deteriorating. I googled Pfizer and didn’t find anything

For what its worth, Moderna temperature requirements are 2°C and 8°C (36°F and 46°F). Pfizer -80°C and -60°C (-112°F and -76°F). So Pfizer is much more demanding and there are fewer freezers that keep these low temps.

Quote
GeorgeN

Another concern with moderna is transportation temperature control to keep the vaccine’s potency from deteriorating. I googled Pfizer and didn’t find anything

For what its worth, Moderna temperature requirements are 2°C and 8°C (36°F and 46°F). Pfizer -80°C and -60°C (-112°F and -76°F). So Pfizer is much more demanding and there are fewer freezers that keep these low temps.

Pfizer sent Israel millions of doses so they can act as testers and perhaps as restitution since it’s funded by Germany.

[www.google.com]

So my son and anyone who wants to be vaccinated had no trouble getting an appointment. He told me if he had a choice he would had picked moderna (even if it’s slightly less effective) because he feels the storage temperature is not as critical. Moderna stays vital for 30 days in the refrigerator so there is (IMHO) less error in handling mass vaccinations. Maybe he was saying so to make me feel better. I wanted Pfizer because it was picked for medical personnel. Is Pfizer considered superior? Who knows.

Interesting Trivia:

“ Right now, Pfizer says its vaccine needs to be kept at minus 70 degrees Celsius and can last in a specialty freezer for up to six months. The specialty shippers can hold up to five "pizza box" trays of vials and be refreshed with dry ice every five days for up to 15 days to keep the vaccine at the right frozen temperature.

Even that presents challenges, though — a Pfizer scientist told a CDC advisory council in August that it's not supposed to be opened more than twice a day and needs to be closed within one minute of opening. Once it's thawed, the vaccine can be refrigerated for five days.

Moderna says its vaccine candidate is stable at regular freezer temperature — minus 20 degrees Celsius — for up to six months, and after thawing it can last in the refrigerator for 30 days. It can also be kept at room temperature for up to 12 hours. This, explains Kristensen, is useful for health care workers in the field, "because now the vaccine doesn't need to go in and out of the refrigerator each time it's administered."



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2021 06:06PM by susan.d.