Eggs And Carotid Artery Plaque

Some research equates egg consumption with smoking as a cause of carotid (neck) artery plaque. I have cut my egg consumption in half since I am recovering from a stroke on 3-12 caused by plaque breaking in my carotid artery. The reason its so dangerous is the short distance to the brain from the carotids. I took vitamin C, E, fishoil & low dose aspirin plus walking 3 miles a day & still had the stroke. The clot reached my brain stem but did not affect the upper brain. Ultrasound 6 months prior showed mild carotid plaque but it did not impede blood flow so I thought I was safe. I have since added magnesium glycinate and switched to vegetable based DHA rather than fish oil. I am now on Dr Fuhrman's vegetable diet. Does anyone know the latest research on this topic?

James:

My younger brother had a mild stroke about a month ago, he hasn't smoked for most of his life, his BP was very good, slim and in good shape, I don't know about his egg consumption. My husband smoked everyday, all day long, (cigars), ate two eggs every morning for his breakfast, was heavy and didn't exercise, no vitamins. He passed away about 8 years ago, but, he never had a stroke or heart problems, he had diabetes and just wouldn't do what he should have to help his diabetes.

My brother had one of his carotid arteries operated on a week ago as it was about 80% blocked, Erling (used to post here) had his carotid arteries operated on as well a few years ago, so it happens to lots of people whether they exercise, take a ton of vitamins etc. I believe in eating good healthy food that you prepare and cook, that far surpasses all of the vitamins people take. Vitamins are supplements only, to take with a good diet, it appears sometimes that people think that if they take a lot of vitamins, they will be healthy and don't worry about eating a good diet.

I don't believe in a veg. diet, I have seen too many people on a veg. diet that had heart problems, cancer, so it doesn't guarantee health. There are a lot of Gurus out there that advocate a veg. diet a med. diet, paleo diet, I quit reading and just eat a balanced diet, meat lots of veggies, fruit and some wheat/corn products, no sugar or sat. fats. A lot of these books, vit. doctors are just making money, most don't know any more than you or I.

Liz

You will find this reference to the study you refer to very interesting.


[healthbeatnews.com]

Sam - Thanks for the article & references. Cholesterol is not the culprit, arachidonic acid in the yolk is. Its an omega-6 fat pre-cursor that needs omega-3 to keep it from causing inflammation but I'm at a loss to explain why its only the neck carotids affected. I ate 2 eggs a day for 40 years and had a carotid plaque stroke so I'm paying close attention to research in this area. A clot in the carotids is extremely dangerous because preventive natural anti-coagulents can't kick in in time if you have high blood pressure. Read MD Dr Sinatra's 2012 book "Cholesterol Myth". Its the oxidized LDL particle size that matters not your total cholesterol.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2013 05:11PM by james taylor.

James - Inflammation is a huge stroke-risk influence player and that’s why the higher doses of Omega 3’s are so important…both for inflammation modulation and the slippery platelet factor. Many people are totally unaware they have silent inflammation although it commonly accompanies many chronic disease conditions.

If you want to get into this from a causative factor, I suggest you Google some of these descriptive words as related to carotid artery involvement… Some years ago, I recall reading about causes of stroke traced to carotid artery blockage and plaque rupture. I can’t quote this verbatim but I believe the reasoning went something like this

The carotid is bifurcated.. (branched) and at the juncture of the bifurcation, the tendency is for atherosclerotic plaque to build because of the increased shear stress in areas of arterial branches higher risk of embolic clot formation…There is both high and low shear stress which cause endothelial dysfunction which then leads to formation of atherosclerotic lesions.

The forces of blood flow have various descriptive names… turbulent flow, pulsatile blood flow and laminar blood flow (I looked this one up in the book) and describe blood velocity flow profiles – that cause various problem areas). The engineers here will relate to this and the other descriptive term, tangential force flow.

Shear stress can result in a damage that is repaired by fibrin, fats and of course minerals collect and contribute to a hardened structure which encroaches on the interior diameter of the artery and reduces flow…. Plus, the more rapid flow in those area causes damage at those area and there is a higher degree of inflammation and also oxidative stress. Atherosclerosis is known to have a high prevalence in the carotid artery (and also coronary arteries).

The interior lining of the blood vessel..in this case the artery… called endothelial lining …is reactive to shear stress and the ROS… Reactive Oxygen Species that directly affects the action of nitric oxide on those endothelial cells… often adverse reactions. So Inflammation and ROS are major culprits in setting up the endothelial lining to trouble areas.

Major research was done several years ago by the late Ken Kensey, MD, who developed hemorheology testing for blood viscosity and linked blood viscosity, elevated fibrinogen, inflammation and such to a higher incidence of developing atherosclerosis and therefore stroke risk in areas such as the carotid artery. The dynamics of blood viscosity are discussed in his book, The Origins of Atherosclerosis: What Really Initiates the Inflammatory Process. The thickness or stickiness or fluidity of blood (or fluid) relates to its flow resistance.

Dr. Kensey’s diagnostic technology is used in the recently-introduced Hemathix testing at Meridian Valley Laboratories. See the posts on blood viscosity monitoring… and the articles by Drs. Pushpa Larsen and Ralph Holsworth that appeared in Townsend Letter. [www.townsendletter.com] (has a good research reference list as well)

If you didn’t see the post on Thick Sticky blood – risk for stroke or MI… read here:
[www.afibbers.org] - be sure you do the marker testing regularly.

Protect against elevated blood viscosity if there is a history by keeping Omega 3 intake 6 grams a day; monitor fibrinogen levels regularly and use CardioKinase at the recommended higher doses if elevated. Magnesium serves to keep platelets from aggregating. Various herbals are well known to reduce inflammation … Curcumin in the C3 form.. ginger, boswellia, Quercetin, Rutin, Rosemary and protease enzymes all are known to reduce the inflammatory response. The combo product, Zyflamend has been a favorite of many afibbers. And the bioflavonoid, ginkgo biloba, has anticlotting properties similar to aspirin but without the adverse effects of aspirin. The garlic compound, ajoene that is in macerated garlic products containing Garlicillin or allicillin is also a helpful bioflavonoid.

I just read a reminder comment to be sure that Vitamin D levels are adequate to avoid sulfate deficiency (which could be an underlying cause of arterial plaque build-up). If you haven’t had your vitamin D checked… the 25 OH D test… be sure you do that. You want to be at least 50..ng/ml and preferably 60 – 70… if treating cancer or heart disease, 70-100. Over 100 is excess.

Years ago, it was common for doctors to routinely examine the carotid artery health by auscultation (listening with the stethoscope) to detect signs of bruit (brew-ee) sounds… a noise that indicates abnormal, turbulent blood flow in the carotids which could indicate stenosis. Today, it seems rare for a doctor to check. So easy to do while listening to heart and lungs.


Jackie

Jackie - Thank you for your usual detailed response. I think I have some more to offer. Dr Kate Rheaume Blue BSc, ND In her 2012 book - "Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox" - details vitamin K2 as the missing link in taking calcium to the bone, When K2 is lacking, calcium deposits in the arteries. Eggs used to come from pasture fed hens. Now they're fed vitamin K depleted grain. The result - we don't get enough K & slowly the plague builds up (20% of it calcium). Hard cheese, a major source of K2, use to come from cows in a pasture, fed grass. Now it comes from factory cows. Another source of vitamin K1 is a wide variety of plants such as kale, califlower, broccoli, etc. We get some K2 from the bacteria in our intestines but not enough to avoid deficiency.

Vitamin D without K2 can be dangerous as it increases calcium absorption from the intestines but doesn't get it to the bone. Low dose K2 (MK-7) is now being offered as a supplement. I used to think calcium was used by the body to repair inflammed artery walls but now it looks like it is plucked from the bloodstream because there is not enough K2 to get it to the bone. Coumidan is an anticoagulent dangerous for one more reason. You must stop all dietary intake of foods with vitamin K1 or your INR is inaccurate. Long term use of coumidan may lead to plaque deposition. I'm taking Pradaxa, an anti-coagulent which doesn't have any vitamin K restrictions but I'm still wary of over-anti-coagulation. Coumidan under another name kills rats by over-coagulating their blood.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2013 10:36PM by james taylor.

James - You’re correct on the free-calcium problem with arterial plaque buildup. When I first became an afibber (‘95), I was directed to an ’94 report on acidemia and free-calcium excess. It said: Acidemia lowers one’s tolerance to oxidant catalysts, predisposes to calcium deposits and free-calcium excess and promotes a wide range of disease conditions. Free-calcium excess is the most consistent indicator of altered pH and acidemia is a strong predictor of free-calcium excess. The report examined dietary influences on tissue pH and the reasons why it’s important to eat an alkaline-ash producing diet to maintain health. For that reason, afibbers who understand about magnesium deficiency and arrhythmia are at an additional advantage when they supplement with magnesium .

Because of adverse clotting concerns during prolonged bouts of arrhythmia, the use of the fibrinolytic enzyme, Nattokinase became a topic of interest about 10 years ago… for me, especially, since I am not easily compatible with warfarin. Out of the nattokinase research, came the correlating information on the effective form of vitamin K that is, Menaquinone 7.

This form of vitamin K 2 (MK7) is highly effective in directing free calcium into bones. It has a longer half-life than other K forms. Food sources of MK7 with the exception of the natto food, itself, typically aren’t sufficient.

The Conference Room Sessions 39 and 40 are about Nattokinase and a segment covers Vitamin K… this is in CR 40 and begins on page 37- heading: Updated December 10, 2007…and then down a couple paragraphs, Part 2 is on Vitamin K2. That segment is well worth reading and then spend some time at the MenaQ7 website to learn more.

CR 40
[www.afibbers.org]

When it comes to eating K-containing foods when on warfarin, the best, most healthy advice is to eat naturally, monitor INR and adjust the warfarin dose accordingly… that helps spare the consequences of the arterial calcifications and osteoporosis risk that come with warfarin use. Unfortunately, Coumadin clinics typically give the advice to avoid healthy foods as that makes their job easier for patients to consistently meet the INR. Low dose K2 MK7 supplementation is recommended when using warfarin in doses ranging from 45 micrograms to no more than 100 mcg as around that level, warfarin interference is noted. For those not on warfarin, suggestions for dosing range from 45 mcg to 100 mcg up and some recommendations recently are around 200 mcg.

Please be very careful while you are taking Pradaxa. As you’ve probably noted from Shannon’s many reports, it’s very dangerous drug if you have any type of trauma. Very poor odds of survival.

Jackie

Jackie - You say K2 (MK-7) is lacking in the diet but is there enough K2 (MK-4) also present in the greens in the diet + K2 from the gut bacteria sufficient to get calcium into the bone? Along with an alkaline diet, it served our paleo ancestors very well. I posed the same question to medical advisors at lef.org - is low dose K2 (MK-7) needed if you have sufficient plants in the diet? I will let you know what they have to say.

James - the MK4 form of vitamin K has a very short half-life. The research by the scientists at the University of Maastricht - Netherlands, Doctors Cees Vermeer and Leon Schurgers... who are lead researchers in the Vitamin K area... indicates that the MK7 is the longer half-life and more effective form. I'm sure LEF will rely on the science coming out of Maastricht as they are the world's leaders in this science.

[www.vitamink2.info]

Jackie

Jackie - Lef.org offers low dose and regular dose K2 (MK-7) so they recognize the latest research however anecdotal evidence from K2 supplement users to the 2012 K2 book by Dr Kate Rheaume Blue favor MK-4 as better absorbed than MK-7despite its short half life. The anecdotal evidence is that MK-4 clears teeth plaque and MK-7 doesn't but that could be a manufacturing problem or peculiar to the product.

There is a major medical research disagreement setting up between those who advocate no animal products and other researchers who say the only source of K2 is pasture fed chicken eggs & hard cheese from cows. Natto is a vegetable source that no one can tolerate. All plant food advocates eat so many greens that the K1 to K2 conversion in the gut, though marginal, may be enough to avoid K2 deficiency for some people. I plan on scutinizing the Netherlands research in detail. I expect lef.org to say we can't get enough from an all plant diet. Researchers really need to rename K2 to avoid confusion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2013 10:39PM by james taylor.

James – when I began my nattokinase fact-finding mission, I consulted with Ralph Holsworth, DO, who had developed and was marketing a nattokinase product line at the time as a result of his research with Dr. Hiroyuki Sumi. (Japan Bio Science Laboratories Company Ltd. ) As an outgrowth of that enterprise, he became the sole importer and distributor of the bonafide menaquinone 7 (K2 MK7) product from the MK7 that was being isolated out of nattokinase during production and was then discarded. As a result of his research and collaborations with Sumi and Maastricht, K2 MK7, was added to his product line.

From my files and the segment of CR 40 on K2…(from 2003 and 2004) on K2 Menaquinone 7, following are a few of the statements on why it works better for the purpose of keeping calcium out of arteries and in bone tissue. I have significantly more and can share if you like.

Jackie



MK-7 is a longer chain which increases its absorption and longer half-life, 48 hours compared to 1.5 hrs for the MK4 (mentatrenone 4).

MK-4 is also a vitamer of K2 but has a shorter chain and is not absorbed as well. MK-4 does not work outside the liver because it is less lipophilic than MK-7 (menaquinone-7). MK-4 is also animal-derived (liver) where MK-7 is derived from natto and is non-GMO.

CAUTION: Vitamin K2 may counteract the effects of anticoagulation therapy, and therefore is not recommended for patients on blood-thinning medications. To prevent potential interference with oral anticoagulants such as Coumadin (warfarin), you should not exceed a daily dose of 100 micrograms.

Those who have experienced stroke, cardiac arrest, and those prone to blood clotting should not take Vitamin K2 without first consulting their physician.
From CR 40 – all gleaned from available research at the time – starting on page 37

Vitamin K 2
The confusion typically lies in the designations of K, K1, K2, MK4, MK7 even among supplement manufacturers in identification of the vitamin K derivative or isomer form they use in products. Hopefully this will serve to clarify. There is abundant literature explaining the various forms of vitamin K, K1, 2, and K3 (synthetic and not useful). The classic publication comes from M J Shearer, published in Lancet, Vol 345, January 28, 1995.

Vitamin K1 is phylloquinone aka phytonadione and the highest content is found in leafy green vegetables such as lettuce, broccoli, spinach kale and makes up about 90% of our vitamin K intake in a typical Western diet. The absorption of vitamin K1 from vegetables is only about 10%. Some K1 is converted to MK 4.

[u/] Vitamin K2 has two major vitamers, Menatetrenone (MK-4) and Menaquinone 7 (MK7) which have a more restricted distribution in the diet than phylloquinone, with nutritionally significant amounts of MK-4 only occurring in animal meat and liver and higher menaquinones (MK 7) through MK9) occurring in fermented products produced by bacteria like natto, cheese and cheese curd. Menaquinones make up the other 10% of vitamin K intake and can be synthesized in the gut by microflora and also made from K1.

An important distinction, MK 4 appears to be synthesized by animals (including humans) from phylloquinone. MK 4 is found in a number of organs other than the liver at high concentrations than phylloquinone. However, MK4 has a very short half-life time (about 1 hour) whereas MK7 has the much longer half-life of 72 hours and reaches a steady tissue level after about two weeks of dosing.

This would explain why the study referenced by Hans used large doses of MK4 (1 and 45 mg/day) because it is much more difficult to maintain constant levels.

Only 3-8 % of phylloquinone (K1) is absorbed and then is horded by the liver. Menaquinone-7 is greater than 90% absorbed and since it is lipophilic, it is carried by lactate dehydrogenase (LDH) from the liver to the systemic circulation providing MK-7 to the arteries and bones.

Current research concludes that the MK 7 form of K2 is the most effective for the therapeutic intention of reducing and preventing soft tissue calcification and/or osteoporosis. It is important to emphasize that it is vitamin K2 or MK 7 and not vitamin K1 that is involved in this therapeutic benefit.

In some products and studies the Vitamin K2 is MK-4 which is a shorter chain and is not absorbed as well. MK-4 does not work outside the liver because it is less lipophilic than MK-7 (menaquinone-7). MK-4 is also animal-derived (liver) where MK-7 is derived from natto and is non-GMO.

Supplemental forms of both K1 and K2 are well absorbed as long as they are taken with some dietary fat to stimulate bile secretion.

Once again….vitamin K2 – mainly - as MK 7 but also MK 4 has benefit with two important roles –
It helps keep calcium out of soft tissues such as blood vessels and aorta (preventing calcification deposits), bone spurs and also with the help of vitamin D3, directs calcium into bones to reduce risk of osteoporosis. This is especially important for those using warfarin/Coumadin whether or not they are afibbers.

Earlier studies indicated benefits from MK4 but later studies confirm that MK 7 is actually the most beneficial.
Both forms or vitamers of vitamin K can safely taken together.

The rest of this discussion references only MK 7

We sometimes worry about getting too much vitamin K since it is involved in the clotting mechanism and this is of special interest to all afibbers but especially those using warfarin/Coumadin.

Important Note
Supplemental vitamin K 2 in the form of MK 7 can be used with warfarin when physician directed so INR levels can be closely monitored as interference with warfarin by (K2) MK 7 is seen in doses ranging from over 50 to 100 micrograms (mcg).

Aspirin (ASA) is an anti-platelet aggregation inhibitor and not a Vitamin K antagonist so MK-7 and ASA are very compatible for those not using an anticoagulant.

Vitamin K2 as Menaquinone or MK 7
I note that many are labeling K2 as the active ingredient and then listing anywhere from 1 – 45 milligrams per capsule/dose. This is misleading and needs clarification as they are generalizing the K2 term and not specifying that it is really menaquinone 4 and not MK7 – which is the one studies find to be most effective.

The Value of Supplemental Vitamin K 2 – MK 7
The liver is the place of clotting factor synthesis and utilizes dietary vitamin K very efficiently for that reason. It is questioned if the RDA for vitamin K is adequate to cover the requirements outside the liver. It has been suggested that perhaps all or most all of apparently healthy adults are subclinically vitamin K deficient based on the findings that increased circulating levels of undercarboxylated osteocalcin were shown to be associated with bone loss and osteoporosis in post menopausal women and undercarboxylated MGP is associated with arterial calcification.

It helps to point out that the liver requires so much vitamin K, it can leave the cartilage and bone CGCA (the amino acid gamma carboxyglutamic acid) proteins with inadequate levels so the vitamin K requirements for the cardiovascular system and cartilage (for bone production) may not be met even though normal clotting factor production occurs because this goes on in the liver (and the liver gets first call on vitamin K utilization.) The body can store about one month supply of vitamin K. Antibiotics interfere with intestinal bacterial production of vitamin K.

[At the end of this report, I’m listing several other observations currently being studied linking vitamin K deficiency with
chronic degenerative disease conditions. Be sure to read through to the end.]

Studies indicate that K2 (MK 7) is superior to K1 for vascular health, carotid artery elasticity, and maintenance of bone strength and since it has the long half-life and bypasses the liver is thought to be the obvious choice for enrichment of dietary supplements and functional foods used for disease prevention in healthy subjects. (References follow in the CR 40 Session)

Advantages of Menaquinone-7
1. 10 times more absorption than other Vitamin K forms, not bound to plant soluble/insoluble fiber (like Vitamin K1)
2. Longer residual time in the human body (up to 48 hours half-life)
3. Works outside the liver (extrahepatic) to control calcium deposits in blood vessels and prevent bone loss.
4. Other Vitamin Ks are “stuck” in the liver and provide no additional therapeutic value other than assisting the development of Vitamin K dependent co gulation factors.
5. MK-7 occurs with good bacteria which can create probiotics in the gastrointestinal system.
6. Most fat-soluble form of Vitamin K, greater than Vitamin K1 and MK-4.
7. Non-animal sourced and suitable for vegetarians/vegans.
8. Non-GMO manufacturing and ingredients.
9. Convenient single dosing per day with meal.


Vitamin K2… The Two Doesn’t Mean 2nd Place!
Ralph Holsworth, Jr. D.O.

Vitamin K exists in three forms, K1, K2 and K3. The vitamers are coenzymes of gammaglutamyl carboxylase and are thus able to regulate mineralization of bone and calcification of blood vessels. Vitamin K2 (specifically menaquinone-7) however is more effective than vitamin K1 with respect to osteoclastogenesis; likewise hypocholesterolemic effects and the ability to slow atherosclerotic progression have only been observed with vitamin K2. This may be due in part to the geranylgeranyl side chain of vitamin K2 which is thought to inhibit the mevalonate pathway, thus preventing the prenylation of growth factors required for osteoclast activation in much the same way as nitrogen-containing bisphosphonates.

This therefore suggests that modeling of vitamin K2 may lead to the development of therapeutic candidates able to reduce resorption, increase bone mineralization and limit atherosclerosis. Furthermore, targeting vitamin K2 over vitamin K1 may be confer beneficial pharmacokinetics given that vitamin K1 concentrates in the liver while vitamin K2 is well distributed to bone and blood vessel walls. Equally, this profile is expected to limit the primary adverse effect associated with vitamin K, negative interactions with coumarin anti-coagulants, since the proteins involved in coagulation are primarily synthesized in the liver.

Vitamin K2 (specifically MK-7) powder has a concentration of 1,000 micrograms per gram, 1 microgram per milligram of powder (1).

Recommended supplemental Vitamin K doses to prevent undercarboxylation of extrahepatic Gla-proteins (which may have benefits for primary or secondary disease prevention) may be in the order of 100 micrograms per day or 100 mg of menaquinone-7 powder (1,000 micrograms).
Dietary intakes of Vitamin K to prevent undercarboxylation ranges from 200-500 micrograms per day (2).

To prevent potential interference with oral anticoagulants, supplemental over the counter (OTC) Vitamin K supplements (either K1 or K2) should not exceed a daily dose of 100 micrograms per day (2).

The absorption of Vitamin K1 from vegetables is 10% of Vitamin K2 (2).


WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE?

In hypercholesterolemic rabbits it has been shown that high doses of vitamin K2 decrease the circulating cholesterol concentrations, suppress the progress of atherosclerotic plaques, intima thickening and pulmonary atherosclerosis (3). Moreover, it was shown in the rat model vitamin K2 prevented calcification, whereas vitamin K1 had little effect (4).

Vitamin K2 (MK-7) derived from natto is an inoculate of Bacillus subtilis natto and nattokinase into the intestinal flora that may increase endogenous sources of Vitamin K2 and resulting higher plasma concentrations of MK-7 (5).

Populations that consume higher levels of vitamin K2 have fewer cardiovascular related health issues, and research comparing healthy artery walls to artery walls with high calcification have 20-30 times higher vitamin K2 concentrations (6).


References
(1) COA of menaquinone-7
(2) Geleijnse, J.M., Vermeer, C., Schurgeers, L.J., Grobbe, D.E., Pols, H.A.P., Witterman, J.C.M. Inverse association of dietary K-2 intake with cardiac events and aortic atherosclerosis: The Rotterdam Study. Thromb. Haemostas. (Suppl July); 2001; 473.
(3) H. Kawashima, et. al., Jpn. J. Pharmacol. 75 135-143 (1997).
(4) H.M.H. Spronk, et. al., J.Vasc. Resear., in press.
(5) H. Sumi, Accumulation of Vitamin K (menaquinone-7) in Plasma after Ingestion of Natto and Natto Bacilli (B. subtilis natto)
(6) Vermeer, C., Schurgeers, L.J., VitaK and Cardiovascular Research Institute CARIM), University of Maastricht, The Netherlands.

RECOMMENDED DOSAGE:

Supplemental dosage requirements for an adult are a minimum of 45 mg per day by mouth for preventative dose, a maximum supplemental dose of 100 mg per day.

Supplemental Vitamin K should not be taken if you are taking warfarin (Coumadin) and any other Vitamin K antagonist drug unless supervised by a knowledgeable practitioner.

Jackie - Thank you for your response. Dr. Mecola MD on YouTube interviews Dr Vermeer, the lead Netherland researher, on K2 and talks about K2 food sources in a separate video. The book - Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox: How a Little-Known Vitamin Could Save Your Life
by Kate Rheaume-Bleue ND BSc from Canada lays out what you stated plus additional conditions that K2 addresses. Vitamins A, D3 & K2 are fat soluble & rate limiting for each other so K2 must taken or obtained from food sources having the other two with a fatty meal.

She outlines the triage theory that determines where in the body a limited amount of K2 gets used. For instance, the pancrease hoards K2 because its functions are immediate vs.the bone density which is long term. Too much vitamin D can cause artery plaque without vitamins K2 & A. According to her, the dangers of too much Vitamin A (retinol) & D3 are exaggerated. It is the lack of K2 that cause those two vitamins to be dangerous in excess.

James - the danger isn’t too much vitamin D (unless it’s over the 100 number) but rather that when using supplemental D, it will ‘liberate’ free calcium for deposition in soft tissues such as arteries rather than go to the bones as it is supposed to do. So, therefore, the use of the MK7 vitamer functions to direct the calcium into bones…. Especially important for those using warfarin as that complicates the calcium deposition problem considerably… excess in soft tissue and not enough in bones so risk of osteoporosis is high.

The danger with too much vitamin A (retinol) is that it’s stored in the liver and if in excess can cause liver damage and in excess, it it also contributes to weak bones.

The Triage Theory refers to Bruce Ames’ paper,
Vitamin K, an example of triage theory: is micronutrient inadequacy linked to diseases of aging?
Joyce McCann and Bruce N Ames Published July 2009. I have the pdf if you want to read it.

Abstract
The triage theory posits that some functions of micronutrients (the ≈40 essential vitamins, minerals, fatty acids, and amino acids) are restricted during shortage and that functions required for short-term survival take precedence over those that are less essential. Insidious changes accumulate as a consequence of restriction, which increases the risk of diseases of aging. For 16 known vitamin K–dependent (VKD) proteins, we evaluated the relative lethality of 11 known mouse knockout mutants to categorize essentiality. Results indicate that 5 VKD proteins that are required for coagulation had critical functions (knockouts were embryonic lethal), whereas the knockouts of 5 less critical VKD proteins [osteocalcin, matrix Gla protein (Mgp), growth arrest specific protein 6, transforming growth factor β–inducible protein (Tgfbi or βig-h3), and periostin] survived at least through weaning. The VKD γ-carboxylation of the 5 essential VKD proteins in the liver and the 5 nonessential proteins in nonhepatic tissues sets up a dichotomy that takes advantage of the preferential distribution of dietary vitamin K1 to the liver to preserve coagulation function when vitamin K1 is limiting. Genetic loss of less critical VKD proteins, dietary vitamin K inadequacy, human polymorphisms or mutations, and vitamin K deficiency induced by chronic anticoagulant (warfarin/coumadin) therapy are all linked to age-associated conditions: bone fragility after estrogen loss (osteocalcin) and arterial calcification linked to cardiovascular disease (Mgp). There is increased spontaneous cancer in Tgfbi mouse knockouts, and knockdown of Tgfbi causes mitotic spindle abnormalities. A triage perspective reinforces recommendations of some experts that much of the population and warfarin/coumadin patients may not receive sufficient vitamin K for optimal function of VKD proteins that are important to maintain long-term health.

Vitamin K, osteoporosis and degenerative diseases of ageing
Cees Vermeer, Elke Theuwissen
VitaK, Maastricht University, Maastricht, Netherlands

Abstract
The function of vitamin K is to serve as a co-factor during the post-translational carboxylation of glutamate (Glu) residues into γ-carboxyglutamate (Gla) residues. The vital importance of the Gla-proteins essential for normal haemostasis is well recognized. During recent years, new Gla-containing proteins have been discovered and the vitamin K-dependent carboxylation is also essential for their function. It seems, however, that our dietary vitamin K intake is too low to support the carboxylation of at least some of these Gla-proteins. According to the triage theory, long-term vitamin K inadequacy is an independent, but modifiable risk factor for the development of degenerative diseases of ageing including osteoporosis and atherosclerosis.

Jackie

Jackie - Do you think Vitamin K2 deficiency plays a role in LAF or regular A-Fib from the effect on Vitamin D? Can we eat cheese from cows pastured on grass & eggs from pastured hens? When do you expect a test for vitamin K status?

James - The free calcium issue would make sense for contributing to arrhythmia since we know that when calcium overpowers magnesium, the excitatory property of too much calcium inside heart cells is a problem (as identified by the Exatest electrolyte ratios). I have not spent time researching the connection to low K2, excess calcium and AF, but it certainly is logical. As for testing of K2, I've not been reading to learn that specifically but you make a good point. A reliable, inexpensive test would make sense. Similar to the vitamin D testing that was initially not generally accepted to now being among the most popular screening tests used today.

Whether one sould eat dairy products from pastured cows is a topic of huge discussion and debate. Most of the functional medicine practitioners that I learn from indicate that dairy should be avoided even if organic. They call the dairy products 'toxic sludge.'....However, the lactoferrin property in undenatured whey products from raw milk seems to be considered very beneficial as is the patented Tegricel colostrom supplements for immune and digestive support.

Eggs from free-range chickens.. .that is, not caged .......are considered to be a source of the complete Essential amino acid profile that every body needs as a protein source to make new cells. Remember cholesterol is not the enemy. That myth was debunked years ago. Lots of info on that at the Weston Price Foundation website if you care to research there. Look for the reports by Uffe Ravnskoff, MD, PhD, starting with "Cholesterol Myths." Remember though, it's how you prepare the eggs that makes a difference in how healthy they are to consume.

When I have some time, I'll check a couple of my rresources to see if they indicate a test for the K2.

Jackie

Jackie - The lead Netherlands K2 researcher in the interview with Dr Mercola indicated they have a K2 test but will not reveal more. Plan on release within a year. "Free range chickens" is a marketing ploy. They simply open the door of the chicken cage which is never used. What chicken is going to leave its feed source. "Pasture fed" is the new buzz phase if the chickens aren't caged.

In any event, vitamin K3 is likely to be added to feed sources which begs the question - can K3 substitue for K2? From your prior response, I conclude your answer will be negative. Please let me know if K3 or any synthetic K's have any value at all. K3 is likely to be the commercial response. I presume you know that orange yolks indicate K2 & that the chicken was pasture fed. I have a grandmother who lived to 105 on spring water & hard labor ie. shoveling coal, yet ate eggs cooked in bacon grease. The average public thinks orange yolks are an indication of rancidity but use color of the egg yolk & not so watery whites of the egg as your eyeball test for K2.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2013 08:28PM by james taylor.

James - Should your interests lie with alternative medicine, you may find the following URL of interest. It is approximately 200 pages and can be printed if desired.
Outsmarting The Number One Killer (downlo

Jackie - Greetings from Longwood. Think of you often and follow closely your contributions to the phorum.
Larry

James - On the "pasture fed" eggs… that’s a new identification for me here in NEOhio… my food market is a relatively small chain of stores privately owned by people who sell wholesome foods grown by local farmer (often organic) and selective other resources so I’m only familiar with eggs from farmyard chickens. However, I do recall reading that natural plant colorings from annatto, marigold and turmeric are used to deepen the color of the yolks and these colorings would not have adverse effects. But… if those are fed to caged hens then that is the deceptive measure to fool the public into thinking the eggs are more wholesome, I suppose. Natural colorings would be more favorable than artificial colorings, obviously. Then there is the whole issue of the "Omega 3" added eggs that apparently is also controversial.

Young chickens are apparently commonly deficient in vitamin K and prone to hemorragic conditions ...thus the additional vitamin K. I have not looked into whether adding synthetic vitamin K to organically fed and raised chickens is a common practice.

On the Vitamin K3… Following are some of the clips from various sources. It would seem that synthetic K3 would not be good to be adding to food sources… all the more reason to buy organic food when possible.


Vitamin K3 (menadione) has the same naphthoquinone “head” as K1 and K2, but lacks a side chain. K3 is a synthetic form of K.1
(James South, MA Vitamin Research Products report)

Vitamin K3, or menadione (that I do not recommend) is manmade and is generally regarded as toxic because it generates free radicals. It's important to note that toxicity has occurred in infants given synthetic vitamin K3 by injection. Mercola

Vitamin K3 or menadione is a fat-soluble synthetic compound which is used in animal feed and dog and cat food. It is metabolized to vitamin K2. (PDR)
Vitamin K3 or menadione is a synthetic naphthoquinone derivative. It is also known as 2-methyl-1, 4-naphthoquinone. Its molecular formula is C11H8O2 and its molecular weight is 172.18 daltons. Vitamin K3 does not possess a lipophilic side chain. (PDR)

Comment in Interview:

KH: Why did you choose vitamin K2 versus vitamin K1 or vitamin K3?

MS: In the early stage of clinical trials, we compared the effect of vitamin K2 and vitamin K1 on bone mineral density of osteoporosis. This study revealed that vitamin K2 was more effective than vitamin K1 in the effect of BMD. Thus we chose vitamin K2 but not vitamin K1.

Osteoporosis and Vitamin K2
Masataka Shiraki, M.D., Ph.D
1610-1 MeiseiVitamin K2 (Menatetrenone) Effectively Prevents Fractures and Sustains Lumbar Bone Mineral Density in Osteoporosis,"
J Bone Mineral Res, 2000;15:515-521. #35612
Online September 2000
====
Toxicity
Although allergic reaction is possible, there is no known toxicity associated with high doses of phylloquinone (vitamin K1), or menaquinone (vitamin K2) forms of vitamin K (20). The same is not true for menadione (vitamin K3) and its derivatives. Menadione can interfere with the function of glutathione, one of the body's natural antioxidants, resulting in oxidative damage to cell membranes. Menadione given by injection has induced liver toxicity, jaundice, and hemolytic anemia (due to the rupture of red blood cells) in infants, and is no longer used for treatment of vitamin K deficiency (5, 7). No tolerable upper level (UL) of intake has been established for vitamin K (20).
[lpi.oregonstate.edu]

A synthetic form of vitamin K, known as K3, does exist but is not recommended for human consumption.
Vitamin K May Reduce the Risk of Prostate Cancer.
Date: Monday, April 14, 2008
Source: American Journal of Clinical Nutrition
via nhiondemand.com

Jackie

Hello Larry from Longwood! Good to see you posting. Thanks for your kind words.
Send me a PM and let me know how you are.
Best,
Jackie

Jackie - "Pasture fed" is more of a Canadian term from the 2012 book - "Vitamin K2 & the Calcium Paradox". What should I advise a vegan to do with the preceding information? Plants provide K1 with a small amount being converted to inadequate K2 by bacteria. K2 (MK7) supplements seem the only answer unless "pasture fed" labeled eggs, butter & hard cheese are accepted back into the diet & are available . I can only conclude that K2 deficient eggs ie, light yellow not orange yolk, will cause plague in the carotid arteries in excess ie. more than 3 per week causing "free" calcium to deposit itself at the site of inflammation. I'm still consuming hard cheese in small amounts & will eventually add low dose (45mg) K2 MK7 supplements once I'm off Pradaxa.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2013 08:51PM by james taylor.

James – With your history, and once you are off the Pradaxa, I’d be taking a substantial dose of MK7 supplement daily so that you have a known, consistent daily intake number. The minimum intake recommendation is 45 micrograms (mcg) by the initial research studies and some are now recommending 100 – 150 mcg. Then, just let the food sources add to that amount or if with a vegan diet, just continue as usual and rely totally on the supplemental form. [menaq7.com]

I use Jarrow (brand) MK7 which supplies 90 mcg and that is in addition to 50 mcg incorporated in my daily Vitamin D3 supplement.

Check the MK7 food sources chart at this link. (and in fact – spend time to read the whole report – it’s invaluable). [nattopharma.com]

When I was doing the initial Nattokinase project research which then led to the K2 MK7 applications, an afibber who was on lifetime warfarin/Coumadin corresponded about the severity of his calcified aorta (as a result of the warfarin). Dr. Holsworth agreed to correspond/consult with him and supervise his intake of supplemental K2 MK7. The dosing was around 200 mcg daily, as I recall. With time, the arterial calcifications are reversed using MK7 supplementation. Be aware that medical supervising and monitoring in such cases are mandatory.

Jackie

Jackie - I'm testing low dose K2 MK7 45mcg with Pradaxa. With such a long half-life, I'm not taking it everyday. Dr Vermeer in the Netherlands tested common foods for K2 content. The results are in a table in the 2012 book "Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox". Of interest is that milk can have little K2 but be turned into hard cheese with 2X the minimum RDA of K2 by bacterial fermentation. Fermented saurkraut has 40mcg of K2 MK4 per 3 1/2 oz. American eggs from caged hens average K2 MK4 15mcg vs Netherland hens at K2 MK4 30mcg. Note that the primary K2 in the diet is MK4 not MK7. Doctors have ignored the vitamin K issue because a deficiency of K1 is rare. It gets recycled by the body because it is so vital. Agreed that I should increase my dose of K2 MK7 to 120mg but shouldn't I do it ASAP to rid myself of the carotid plaque responsible for my stroke. See my post on autonomic neuropathy which I'm treating with acetyl-l-carnitine to assess my risk factors.

James - as long as you are on an anticoagulant drug, then keep your MK7 doses low. I know with warfarin, interference is seen at 100 mcg... but I am not aware if the new anticoags have been evaluated for similar interference. Once you are off the Pradaxa, you certainly can increase the MK7 and begin atttacking the atherosclerotic plaque issue more aggressively. I recall reading recently a report on this topic... I'll look it up and post the link.
Jackie

Jacke - Pradaxa is a direct thrombin inhibitor without dietary restriction unlike Coumidan that inhibits K1 hence the dietary restrictions to measure an accurate INR. I'm more at risk from other blood thinners like Vitamin E & the others listed in Hans' article - "Effectiveness Of Antithrombotic Agents". The doctors do allow you to continue on low dose aspirin but not initiate it. I take Vitamin C, vinpocetine 10mg to improve brain circulation, acetyl-l-caritine which works wonders for brain stroke recovery & alpha lipoic acid. I follow the advice from UCLAs' Karlis Ullis MD "Age Right" 1999 - start low & go slow & take supplement holidays.

By the way, the so-called "organic" eggs out in San Diego now use the phase "cage free" but until I see orange or dark yellow yolks, I don't expect much K2. I'm awaiting the response from only-plant advocates & the Paleo diet advocates, both of which have good results & have been on Dr Oz. His viewers must be very confused with all the conflicting advice he offers. My take is to avoid IGF-1 from meat products so I side with the plant advocates & add only eggs & cheese for K2.

James - I've read precautions for using K2 with the newer anticoags... I can't reference where but I made a mental note when I saw the statement.

Dr. Oz means well and I have to give him a lot of credit for breaking out of the mainstream medicine mold and attempting to bring awareness to the masses, but he isn't correct on a lot of the info he dishes out and seems to be at the mercy of those he has on his shows and their opinions... I don't watch him routinely as it's too annoying, but people tell me he says...this or that... and I'm often stunned.

On the IGF-1... it's in my memory that it isn't in food products but is rather made by the body in the liver. Yes - check wikipedia. [en.wikipedia.org]

I wish you total success in whatever plan seems to be best for your particular needs. I would recommend that you routinely monitor the "Red Flags" markers to be sure you are controlling well, especially the cardiac or high-sensitivity C-reactive protein and fibrinogen....and also especially important, regular monitoring of homocysteine. Another extemely helpful test would be the Meridian Valley and their viscosity measure... Hemathix. If you have bouts of arrhythmia and hyper viscosity (thick, sticky blood), that can be another complation that is worrisome. [www.townsendletter.com]

Best to you,
Jackie



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2013 09:13PM by Jackie.