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AFIBBERS FORUM

A forum for sharing experiences regarding atrial fibrillation and other atrial tachy-arrhythmias. 
Subject Views Posts Last Post

An Interesting Discussion on AF and Dementia

by JoyWin
2,514 16 11/12/2018 05:10PM
Last Post by mwcf

LAAEI

by AB Page
2,180 9 11/08/2018 12:08AM
Last Post by ln108

My sister - Bonnie Dickson Hill

by Shannon
3,914 42 11/25/2018 01:16AM
Last Post by Anonymous User

SADS Sudden Arrhythmia Death Syndromes in the UK

by Todd
2,042 5 11/07/2018 12:33AM
Last Post by GeorgeN

Wim Hof breathing method to lower resting heart rate and increase blood oxygen saturation

by DojoMojo
5,933 14 11/11/2018 08:38AM
Last Post by Joe

Milner Acetylcholine Protocol (MAP)

by DojoMojo
1,985 2 11/03/2018 01:35AM
Last Post by GeorgeN

New warfarin study

by jpeters
1,899 4 02/13/2019 05:17PM
Last Post by alxndr01

Restaurants a Trigger?

by CareyG
2,067 24 11/06/2018 01:38AM
Last Post by Carey

Respected EP in Louisiana for AFIB Ablation?

by smackman
2,463 9 11/12/2018 10:30PM
Last Post by JakeL

Liquid Magnesium - Carolyn Dean ReMag vs Cardiovascular Research & Trace Minerals

by FrankInFlorida
3,329 16 11/14/2018 03:48AM
Last Post by karin

Flecainide and 1:1 Conduction Risk

by MarkF786
2,417 23 11/02/2018 06:35AM
Last Post by Joe

How soon to get next ablation?

by MarkF786
1,889 5 10/29/2018 10:01PM
Last Post by MarkF786

Attempting off of Metoprolol & Flecainide - "conversion tricks" when Afib hits?

by FrankInFlorida
2,247 29 10/29/2018 09:25PM
Last Post by smackman

Blood pressure

by Elizabeth
2,076 3 10/28/2018 02:23AM
Last Post by Joe

HRV Monitoring and AFib

by MikeShue
2,127 10 11/03/2018 01:38AM
Last Post by GeorgeN

3 months Afib free after taking NATTO (food)

by colindo
3,374 21 11/10/2018 11:15PM
Last Post by strongHeart

NOAC or aspirin if someone is having a stroke/TIA?

by mwcf
1,956 8 10/29/2018 08:23PM
Last Post by jpeters

Are we just the beginning?

by tsco
2,217 21 10/27/2018 01:54AM
Last Post by Elizabeth

Oral Surgery and Xarelto

by Louise
1,858 5 10/24/2018 10:27PM
Last Post by Louise

Eliquis and curcumin

by Robin
2,277 4 10/23/2018 05:37PM
Last Post by Elizabeth

Creatine and ATP supplemenation

by Lynn
2,155 9 10/25/2018 03:04PM
Last Post by jpeters

Afib, Aflutter, PVC's, Ectopics or what?

by Robin
2,762 15 01/10/2019 02:42AM
Last Post by Robin

old timer returning to this forum

by Robin
1,686 4 10/22/2018 03:22AM
Last Post by Robin

Surgery Supplementation Recommendations

by Que
1,585 1 10/20/2018 06:39AM
Last Post by Que

37 year old, diagnosed 18 months ago.

by GregH
2,190 16 10/21/2018 10:33AM
Last Post by beardman

Percent of Cataract Surgery at cause of Afib

by Percyfaith
1,625 2 10/21/2018 01:05AM
Last Post by SteveDaley

Any idea why my posts are not appearing?

by tobherd
1,514 3 10/22/2018 02:17AM
Last Post by JakeL

3 months this Saturday

by rocketritch
2,119 14 10/25/2018 11:00PM
Last Post by rocketritch

43 years old - considering ablation

by Chris H
2,315 24 12/05/2018 09:44PM
Last Post by Joe

Genetic links

by Joe
1,832 11 10/27/2018 02:11AM
Last Post by Elizabeth

Heart Rate Variability

by Dean
1,986 3 10/18/2018 11:42AM
Last Post by Catherine

GI bleeds after starting an anticoagulant may signal cancer

by Carey
1,553 4 10/17/2018 05:34PM
Last Post by JustMeToo

Jims Story Need opinions and educated thoughts

by SteveDaley
1,600 2 10/16/2018 01:44AM
Last Post by Carey

Noise throws the heart out of rhythm

by Todd
2,103 13 10/21/2018 02:47AM
Last Post by wolfpack

12 Year Anniversary Next Month

by Ken
1,998 12 10/18/2018 01:25PM
Last Post by rocketritch

Anticoagulents decrease rates of dementia

by jpeters
1,748 6 10/16/2018 06:38AM
Last Post by Brian_og

Is it OK to have a little alcohol now that I no longer have Afib?

by tobherd
6,274 111 10/25/2018 12:14AM
Last Post by wolfpack

A genetic link...

by bolimasa
1,958 11 10/14/2018 07:22PM
Last Post by Sam

this neat article i found with a first class picture at the top

by peggyM
1,789 4 10/09/2018 01:24PM
Last Post by Jackie

Ignored Causes of Heart Disease

by Todd
1,813 1 10/07/2018 01:53AM
Last Post by Todd

PPIs & Afib - what should I do?

by DavrosT
1,856 2 10/10/2018 05:43AM
Last Post by lisa s

Stroke after cardioversion.

by Brian_og
4,095 48 10/19/2018 12:15AM
Last Post by JoyWin

Blanking period blips

by Dinodog
2,292 24 10/10/2018 03:14AM
Last Post by JakeL

Other end of the spectrum

by tsco
2,154 10 10/05/2018 09:34AM
Last Post by tsco

High Troponin After Ablation

by Sam
2,097 6 10/02/2018 11:41AM
Last Post by Sam

Should-vitamin-K2-also-be-recommended-for-statin-users

by colindo
1,679 2 10/03/2018 10:31AM
Last Post by mwcf

Watchman FLX Implant Report

by ln108
1,946 11 01/08/2019 02:25AM
Last Post by Louise

Warfarin

by Erin
4,104 61 02/13/2019 05:40PM
Last Post by alxndr01

24 hour single lead ECG device

by GeorgeN
2,037 19 09/30/2018 05:14PM
Last Post by TomSeest

First post-ablation afib - I think I made a mistake

by MarkF786
2,235 6 09/29/2018 02:03AM
Last Post by wolfpack

Afib or not

by SteveDaley
1,741 2 09/26/2018 03:57PM
Last Post by Pompon

Ectopics and.. twitching in shoulders muscles?

by DavrosT
2,043 15 09/29/2018 08:28AM
Last Post by DavrosT

Cholesterol

by Catherine
2,029 12 09/30/2018 02:36PM
Last Post by Jackie

Rapid Ventricular Response

by Erin
1,796 5 09/25/2018 11:39PM
Last Post by Carey

PT and INR levels with Eliquis

by Dinodog
1,817 2 09/25/2018 04:29PM
Last Post by Dinodog

Skipped Beats at night can Protonix for stomach be factor

by SteveDaley
1,798 6 09/27/2018 01:16AM
Last Post by Elizabeth

Anxiety and Eliquis.......Still....

by lds001
2,858 27 01/28/2019 03:22PM
Last Post by alxndr01

Throat sensation prior to episode

by Carolyn23
1,709 4 10/28/2018 08:03PM
Last Post by CreateHealth

New on Here

by Erin
1,838 10 09/25/2018 08:14PM
Last Post by Carey

Episodes increasing

by Carolyn23
1,875 5 09/24/2018 11:28AM
Last Post by Carolyn23

Deciding to take Eliquis with infrequent Afib

by karin
4,656 52 09/28/2018 05:25PM
Last Post by colindo

More post-ablation 'rumblings'

by mwcf
2,171 13 09/23/2018 05:58PM
Last Post by mwcf

Question on the Watchman device

by Elizabeth
2,320 22 09/22/2018 11:29PM
Last Post by jpeters

Continuing News about Importance of Vitamin K2 MK7

by Jackie
2,706 9 09/25/2018 06:28PM
Last Post by mwcf

That pre-afib feeling - 14 months after ablation?

by DavrosT
1,814 6 09/23/2018 03:00AM
Last Post by libby

initiating contact with Natale's office

by kbog
1,678 4 10/10/2018 01:00AM
Last Post by Carey

Watchman

by MissSunshine
1,743 10 09/20/2018 08:04PM
Last Post by AB Page

Colonoscopy Suprep

by Que
2,036 10 09/26/2018 01:08PM
Last Post by wolfpack

When am I considered an ablation failure?

by MissSunshine
1,997 9 09/20/2018 05:02AM
Last Post by Carey

Groin site 5 days after ablation

by Dinodog
1,823 5 09/18/2018 08:35AM
Last Post by rocketritch

Should I consider a 2nd ablation?

by afdude
1,807 13 10/17/2018 04:31AM
Last Post by rocketritch

A Fib & Travel

by MacNab
1,863 6 09/20/2018 02:22AM
Last Post by tsco

Possible it was just a bump along the road??

by Socalsteve
2,000 24 09/17/2018 10:13PM
Last Post by Socalsteve

Ablation recommendation

by Celticpops
2,213 8 11/24/2018 09:42PM
Last Post by Anonymous User

Post ablation questions....

by bolimasa
2,141 7 09/19/2018 06:28PM
Last Post by Jackie

Will the second ablation last?

by Dinodog
1,691 2 09/14/2018 01:59PM
Last Post by AB Page

Questions to ask while selecting your EP and how to interpret their answers

by JakeL
1,987 9 09/20/2018 09:32PM
Last Post by jpeters

Another Newbie

by docboss
2,190 17 03/31/2019 09:40AM
Last Post by Sam

I’m terrified...

by Catherine
2,163 13 09/28/2018 04:00PM
Last Post by newyorker

I did it...

by bolimasa
1,804 9 09/15/2018 08:16AM
Last Post by mwcf

Hi-tech T-shirt that could help doctors spot risk of stroke

by DavidK
1,562 1 09/12/2018 07:12PM
Last Post by DavidK

Apple Watch Series 4 can detect Afib and perform an ECG

by DavidK
2,092 8 09/14/2018 08:32PM
Last Post by AB Page

Cardiokinase vs Nattokinase

by Louise
1,641 3 09/13/2018 06:31PM
Last Post by Louise

Why

by Catherine
1,894 16 09/14/2018 08:54AM
Last Post by The Anti-Fib

EP Referral (Seattle area)

by Kleinkp
1,563 1 09/12/2018 05:07PM
Last Post by Kleinkp

Back in AF 3 weeks after ablation at Bordeaux......

by mwcf
2,186 22 10/17/2018 03:04PM
Last Post by Barry G.

Canadian pharmacy

by Tilden
1,869 5 09/12/2018 07:08AM
Last Post by DavrosT

ablation with maestro Natale

by newyorker
1,946 10 09/11/2018 10:19AM
Last Post by Dinodog

Intro and my AF experience pre and post ablation

by afdude
1,864 17 09/12/2018 03:52PM
Last Post by jpeters

Is a Touch-up ablation recovery different?

by Dinodog
1,956 7 09/11/2018 12:18PM
Last Post by mwcf

Cutting 20 mg Xarelto in half.

by smackman
9,350 4 09/09/2018 02:55PM
Last Post by smackman

Recommendations for best ablationists in the NY area

by tobherd
1,772 6 09/09/2018 12:53AM
Last Post by tobherd

Feeling before afib starts...

by MarkF786
2,050 8 09/12/2018 01:58PM
Last Post by Ken

3rd ablation... This time with Dr Natale

by Billyjeans
1,953 10 09/14/2018 05:15PM
Last Post by onewaypockets

Anesthesia?

by Pompon
3,086 36 09/09/2018 03:40PM
Last Post by jpeters

Aflutter questions

by Dinodog
1,671 3 09/06/2018 07:05PM
Last Post by Dinodog

Post Ablation GI issues.

by dartisskis
1,638 6 09/10/2018 07:59PM
Last Post by dartisskis

Alphabet soup! Please explain the abbreviations

by Socalsteve
2,007 6 09/04/2018 04:20PM
Last Post by JakeL

Eliquis and Supplements

by MacNab
3,860 16 10/04/2018 06:46PM
Last Post by MacNab

Aspirin Doubles Heart Attack Risk in Patients with Atrial Fibrillation

by jpeters
1,854 1 09/02/2018 07:17PM
Last Post by jpeters

What do you think? Aspirin doubles risk of stroke/heart attack in afibbers

by bouret
1,930 15 09/04/2018 05:37PM
Last Post by mwcf

Phlebitis at Catheter Insertion Site

by MarkF786
1,547 5 09/02/2018 09:42PM
Last Post by Carey

When to go to hospital and other questions

by Dinodog
1,862 11 09/02/2018 09:56AM
Last Post by Dinodog

What was that!?!?

by MissSunshine
1,698 6 09/05/2018 01:01PM
Last Post by Jackie

Strange run of ectopics - heart trying to go into afib?

by DavrosT
1,882 7 09/01/2018 05:55PM
Last Post by Jackie

2nd episode in 3 years, treated in ER

by windyshores
1,629 4 08/31/2018 11:59PM
Last Post by wolfpack

Chicken or eggs...

by bolimasa
2,040 16 09/01/2018 09:30PM
Last Post by wolfpack

Chemical Stress Test wihle in AFIB

by LarryZ
3,751 20 09/03/2018 01:47PM
Last Post by jpeters

EP visit and Medicare

by hwkmn05
1,930 21 09/02/2018 02:58PM
Last Post by Ken

Recall of hypertension med - Valsartan

by Jackie
1,723 14 09/02/2018 07:49PM
Last Post by jpeters

Effects of Vaccine Ingredients on Toxic Load and Afib

by Stephen
1,590 5 09/05/2018 02:59PM
Last Post by Stephen

Flecainide hangover

by Doug S.
1,845 6 08/30/2018 06:46PM
Last Post by Socalsteve

Linus Pauling Treatment

by lkwetter
2,059 5 01/28/2019 03:27PM
Last Post by alxndr01

Exercise after ablation

by bolimasa
1,885 14 08/28/2018 07:40PM
Last Post by Ken

New to Afib - what should I ask my EP?

by MikeShue
3,505 34 09/07/2018 05:53AM
Last Post by rocketritch

rate control of AF - what are the consequences?

by kpa
1,815 6 01/05/2019 01:54PM
Last Post by sbeckermd

Ablation on Monday - and was only told to stop Flecainide the night before

by MarkF786
3,056 15 08/30/2018 08:56PM
Last Post by mwcf

Can Afib be triggered by taking too much magnesium ?

by dartisskis
2,377 16 08/28/2018 01:11AM
Last Post by wolfpack

Free (California) Doctor's Best High Absorption Magnesium 100% Chelated w/Traacs

by SueChef
1,737 4 08/25/2018 10:01PM
Last Post by Socalsteve

2nd Ablation w/ Dr N

by Victoria
2,062 9 09/02/2018 06:20PM
Last Post by rocketritch

Can’t figure out the triggers

by beardman
4,545 88 09/07/2019 01:05PM
Last Post by beardman

PVCs... When to Get Treatment?

by Fibbin AFib
2,438 15 08/29/2018 02:49PM
Last Post by Pompon

Medical devices

by bolimasa
1,771 9 08/23/2018 01:46AM
Last Post by jpeters

Nattokinase experience

by LarryZ
3,153 27 08/30/2018 04:00PM
Last Post by jpeters

How to avoid AFib after exercise?

by JoeM
2,375 16 08/23/2018 02:06PM
Last Post by jpeters

As a follow up to this thread...

by Socalsteve
1,873 11 09/01/2018 03:00PM
Last Post by Socalsteve

Chinese medicine

by Pompon
1,872 9 02/13/2019 06:05PM
Last Post by alxndr01

Ectopics immediately after ablation,

by mwcf
1,836 23 08/22/2018 07:47AM
Last Post by DavrosT

Laying down and arrhythmia

by MissSunshine
2,240 11 08/31/2018 08:37PM
Last Post by robh

Warfarin may prevent cancer

by jpeters
1,578 3 08/20/2018 03:40PM
Last Post by jpeters

symptoms after blanking period

by libby
1,871 10 08/19/2018 02:19PM
Last Post by wolfpack

Vagal AFib & Beta Blockers, anyone?

by grace123
2,283 23 08/20/2018 05:31AM
Last Post by jpeters

So how do you feel?

by bolimasa
1,953 13 08/19/2018 12:21AM
Last Post by bolimasa

Drop in Ejection Fraction during afib

by LarryZ
1,892 11 08/17/2018 11:01PM
Last Post by libby

A few post-ablation recover questions...

by MarkF786
2,149 28 08/19/2018 07:24PM
Last Post by Ken

Thinning hair and breakage

by SueChef
1,765 5 08/18/2018 07:48AM
Last Post by SueChef

thyroid meds and NOACS

by anneh
1,476 1 08/16/2018 01:50AM
Last Post by anneh

During an ablation

by juanLopez1245
1,464 7 09/19/2018 04:43PM
Last Post by juanLopez1245

PACs and Xarelto

by MissSunshine
1,415 2 08/14/2018 11:09PM
Last Post by Carey

New RF balloon catheter eliminates need for PVI touch-ups.

by mwcf
1,459 5 08/17/2018 04:50PM
Last Post by rocketritch

Anyone combining nattokinase with coumadin?

by whitehaven
1,660 3 08/14/2018 10:15PM
Last Post by Jackie

NY Times Article: New Genetic Testing Makes it Easier to Predict Afib Risk

by DavidK
1,270 1 08/13/2018 10:45PM
Last Post by DavidK

NY Times: New Genetic Testing Makes it Easier to Predict Afib Risk

by DavidK
1,547 3 01/28/2019 03:30PM
Last Post by alxndr01

Predisposition to afib.

by bolimasa
2,166 20 08/16/2018 08:16AM
Last Post by Joe

Jackie - best magnesium powder to use?

by Nancy2
1,622 5 08/14/2018 11:58PM
Last Post by Nancy2

New to the Forum/Site

by grace123
1,563 1 08/12/2018 10:35PM
Last Post by grace123

Full blown afib episode...I have questions

by Socalsteve
4,307 78 08/20/2018 07:38PM
Last Post by Elizabeth

Longest episode to date

by MikeH
1,848 6 08/10/2018 11:32PM
Last Post by Catherine

Gout and afib

by Carey
1,773 5 08/22/2018 04:31AM
Last Post by Paehua

Natto food V's Nattokinase: Which is best?

by Dean
4,162 45 08/14/2018 05:12AM
Last Post by jpeters

How long to wait for high impact cardio following ablation

by ragatx
1,928 7 08/09/2018 12:58AM
Last Post by Carey

Where I'm at

by NtG
4,099 46 08/12/2018 06:19PM
Last Post by Elizabeth

St. Davids

by Elizabeth
1,665 2 08/05/2018 10:27PM
Last Post by Carey

Receiving the Watchman FLX - impressions and experience

by AB Page
3,424 31 09/13/2018 06:03PM
Last Post by rocketritch

Zio results.... Huh? What?

by SueChef
17,835 43 08/13/2018 12:58PM
Last Post by Jackie

Puffing, pacer and AF

by Elizabeth
1,781 9 08/04/2018 01:20PM
Last Post by Ken

SVT or afib on ECG?

by Fibbin AFib
1,645 9 08/03/2018 09:56PM
Last Post by wolfpack

Stopping blood thinner after ablation

by libby
2,113 20 08/04/2018 11:39PM
Last Post by Carey

Ablation Scheduled - Odd Question?

by MarkF786
1,696 5 08/01/2018 03:06PM
Last Post by Pompon

A-fib or not ?

by Pompon
3,461 52 08/01/2018 09:44PM
Last Post by rocketritch

Afib and blood flow

by bolimasa
2,156 16 08/01/2018 01:46PM
Last Post by jpeters

Stomach gassy/bloating, affecting heart and causing PACs?

by DavrosT
3,035 15 08/01/2018 12:24AM
Last Post by afibbers

Insurance questions

by Billyjeans
2,089 12 08/06/2018 12:10PM
Last Post by wolfpack

Watchman FLX Recommended by Natale

by ln108
2,694 20 01/12/2019 10:31PM
Last Post by silviageci

Dr John Day regarding scepticism re CHADS VASc score

by Brian_og
2,667 29 08/26/2018 06:34PM
Last Post by anneh

General potassium question ER 20 MEQ

by tsco
2,123 14 08/02/2018 02:09AM
Last Post by GeorgeN

Correlation of S-T Segment or T Wave Abnormalities and Arrhythmias

by Fibbin AFib
1,599 3 07/25/2018 07:09PM
Last Post by Carey

In afib but normal HR

by Joe
1,953 5 07/24/2018 10:47PM
Last Post by Joe

Ectopic beats and anxiety

by MissSunshine
3,438 20 07/30/2018 04:24PM
Last Post by vanlith

2nd Natale ablation - PACs

by Josephkroussell
2,334 14 08/15/2018 10:56PM
Last Post by rocketritch

Has anyone tried BCAA+G for afib?

by Billyjeans
1,900 4 07/21/2018 02:32PM
Last Post by vanlith

Electrolytes

by bolimasa
3,168 32 07/25/2018 07:15PM
Last Post by Carey

What Are Your Triggers?

by AnneC
2,363 28 07/31/2018 08:52AM
Last Post by mwcf

Ablation w/ Natale tomorrow

by ragatx
2,082 17 08/04/2018 11:12PM
Last Post by rocketritch

Berberine for AF

by Jackie
3,551 14 07/28/2018 05:47AM
Last Post by jpeters

My Ablation With Dr Natale (07/20/2018) with current updates

by rocketritch
8,553 185 01/11/2022 10:51PM
Last Post by rocketritch

Newbie to Afib

by pandapab
2,521 15 07/19/2018 11:56PM
Last Post by AnneC

Possible Pericardial Effusion after Ablation

by Sam
2,013 13 07/23/2018 07:19PM
Last Post by Carey

My Personal Update/ablated 2012-doing well but......

by Poppino
2,251 8 07/22/2018 12:57PM
Last Post by rocketritch

Naturally low blood pressure and afib

by RichardLP
1,742 7 07/16/2018 12:41PM
Last Post by RichardLP

Pre-ablation Apixaban to get rid of any possible thrombus - does it work for everyone?

by mwcf
1,542 2 07/15/2018 09:40PM
Last Post by GeorgeN

Eliquis and supplements for dry eye

by anneh
2,102 9 07/16/2018 12:56PM
Last Post by Jackie

Anyone with SVT and Afib. Need your Experience and Advice.

by mjamesone
1,990 28 07/16/2018 12:12AM
Last Post by Socalsteve

Stroke while taking anticoagulant

by JustMeToo
4,320 36 08/21/2018 04:34PM
Last Post by rocketritch

Cardioversion: a reset button?

by Billyjeans
2,541 18 07/14/2018 12:32AM
Last Post by rocketritch

Ablation statistics question

by jennifer92151
1,906 6 07/11/2018 08:21PM
Last Post by wolfpack

Zio patch

by SueChef
11,159 16 03/04/2021 11:54AM
Last Post by billdadune

Eliquis and Nausea: Adaptation? Antidote?

by ln108
1,948 2 07/11/2018 06:16AM
Last Post by mwcf

Has anyone heard of Dr. Paul Zei at Brigham and Women's hospital (Boston)

by tobherd
2,156 18 02/19/2019 02:47PM
Last Post by MadMax

Four Weeks Post-Bordeaux Ablation

by Sam
1,870 4 07/25/2018 12:44AM
Last Post by rocketritch

ECG interpretation, arrhythmias

by Joe
2,105 30 07/16/2018 03:16PM
Last Post by wolfpack

A bit embarrassed...

by newyorker
1,948 4 07/27/2018 04:36AM
Last Post by onewaypockets

Does having cardiomyopathy affect how long an ablation lasts?

by tobherd
1,802 21 07/12/2018 02:07PM
Last Post by hwkmn05

Benefits of CPAP therapy for treating sleep apnea

by AB Page
1,688 1 07/09/2018 02:29PM
Last Post by AB Page

Stopping Flecainide after ablation

by libby
1,946 11 07/10/2018 02:19PM
Last Post by Ken

Is there a way to bookmark a posting eg. "Stopped AF"

by colindo
1,801 4 07/17/2018 04:14AM
Last Post by amyorca

Life Extension reports on Reversing Acute Stroke and more...

by Jackie
2,184 3 07/10/2018 05:11PM
Last Post by Jackie

Tell me about drugs....

by bolimasa
3,342 37 07/12/2018 02:12PM
Last Post by hwkmn05

Ablation doctor

by jennifer92151
2,143 5 07/11/2018 03:11PM
Last Post by jennifer92151

Exercise and Beta Blockers...

by Socalsteve
2,472 14 07/22/2018 04:05AM
Last Post by JoyWin