Increased. PACs starting 6 weeks post ablation

Increased. PACs starting 6 weeks post ablation Hi everyone- I had my ablation on 9/12 with DiBiase and woke up feeling like a new person. Afib had gotten so bad I was having daily episodes that made me unable to drive. My first ablation was with him in January of this year- held until summer. I’m young and hadn’t had afib long. First lesions held fine- so he ablated second area. Last thing left is the lCC and hoping doesn’t come to that. Post surgery only Eliquis and cardizem (I can’t take anti rhythm). Ectopics started at 3 weeks, they seemed to slow a bit,’or I got used to them. At 4 weeks they lowered my cardizem dose as I was getting dizzy- had lost weight and lowered bp which was likely the issue. 5-6 weeks on its daily ectopics. I’m 9 weeks post ablation now. I went to local EP yesterday and EKG confirmed PACs and she heard one with the stethoscope. They increased my cardizem a bit and think that may quiet it down. I got the normal bit about this being normal and not dangerous. I can live like this frankly- I’m a thousand times better than I was pre ablation. But I’m terrified this activity means I’m heading to get the LAA done. I’ve seen the studies on PACs as predictors of more afib, etc. I’ve had them since 3 weeks post-op-and in retrospect suspect they increased once we lowered the cardizem- it just took me this long to figure that out. I know I can only control diet, supplements, etc. and hope for the best. Has anyone had this issue and did it eventually improve? I’ve seen online where a few people said it was at a year or more that it quieter down. I didn’t even make it 6 months after my first ablation before it jumped to another area of my heart- and that started as pvcs before it triggered afib- so I’m concerned. Probably just venting as I realize I have little control Over this. I also wonder can this keep happening- or is LCC ablation at least the end of the road? https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166300#msg-166300 Tue, 19 May 2026 07:31:17 +0000 Phorum 5.2.23 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166523#msg-166523 Re: Increased. PACs starting 6 weeks post ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166523#msg-166523
(I'm back home from my 4th ablation procedure - more about this later...)]]> Pompon AFIBBERS FORUM Thu, 29 Nov 2018 08:16:13 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166510#msg-166510 Re: Increased. PACs starting 6 weeks post ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166510#msg-166510 castlehighkingdom.proboards.com]

Dr. Rochlitz 's book... www.amazon.co.uk/Hiatal-Hernia-Syndrome-Vagus-Imbalance/dp/0945262612

And this website - [wellatlast.com]

Jackie]]> Jackie AFIBBERS FORUM Wed, 28 Nov 2018 17:21:11 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166481#msg-166481 Re: Increased. PACs starting 6 weeks post ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166481#msg-166481

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Carey
I don't believe PVCs can be induced, but what makes you think they're due to digestive issues?

When they appear, they always come with stomach bloating. Burping helps reducing the pressure. I'm more prone to get PVCs when my body position squashes my stomach. Typically when sitting at my desk after meal, or when I've to work at home at or near ground level.
At work, I try eating small quantities at a time and standing up when things go wrong. Not always easy.
It seems those PVCs tend to induce PACs and PACs sometimes induce afib. Fortunately, all those troubles are of short duration, but who knows how they could behave in the future?
Sometimes my heart makes me think it's like a rotten roof : repair a hole, another one soon shows up and the water creeps in. If one can't replace the roof, may I hope it'll not rain ?
Two months ago, I've had an appointement with a Chinese pratician. Why not have another opinion, after all? At once, after having heard my story, he said the culprit was my liver. He talked about the Yang of my liver and the Yin of my lungs - something like this - fighting against each other. I've met him four times after that, for some acupuncture. It doesn't help. But I'm feeling he's right about my liver. He's the first pratician telling me such a thing. Others I met for my digestive problems told me they could be linked with HR disorders or induce them, and they prescribed IPPs for my GERD. They're worse than anything and I don't take them any more for a long time.
The Chinese pratician told me about food I have to avoid eating. It's a low fat low carbohydrates diet, without acid fruits like oranges and baked tomatoes. Mushrooms are bad too, but I've not asked why.]]> Pompon AFIBBERS FORUM Mon, 26 Nov 2018 17:10:11 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166480#msg-166480 Re: Increased. PACs starting 6 weeks post ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166480#msg-166480 Carey AFIBBERS FORUM Mon, 26 Nov 2018 15:12:50 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166478#msg-166478 Re: Increased. PACs starting 6 weeks post ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166478#msg-166478 Can EPs induce PVCs as well as they can with afib for ablation purpose ? I'm asking because I'm scheduled for an afib ablation touch-up this week and never asked for any procedure against PVCs, my main concern being to get rid of afib and meds. But, since my PVCs are more than probably induced by digestive problems, would they appear during an ablation procedure that's done while my stomach is empty and, in this case, would they come from the real ectopic points given they are artificially induced?]]> Pompon AFIBBERS FORUM Mon, 26 Nov 2018 08:07:23 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166475#msg-166475 Re: Increased. PACs starting 6 weeks post ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166475#msg-166475

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Pompon

PVCs can often be ablated.

This means going down passed the valves? Not very reassuring, IMO...

It does. The good news is PVCs can be very focal, meaning just a little burn is required. It’s not a “scatter plot” like the left atrium can be. The operator does need to be careful not to tear or damage the valves, however. Yet another reason that skill matters.]]> wolfpack AFIBBERS FORUM Mon, 26 Nov 2018 01:39:25 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166473#msg-166473 Re: Increased. PACs starting 6 weeks post ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166473#msg-166473 Carey AFIBBERS FORUM Sun, 25 Nov 2018 23:41:29 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166468#msg-166468 Re: Increased. PACs starting 6 weeks post ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166468#msg-166468

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Carey
PVCs can often be ablated.

This means going down passed the valves? Not very reassuring, IMO...]]> Pompon AFIBBERS FORUM Sun, 25 Nov 2018 16:43:31 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166467#msg-166467 Re: Increased. PACs starting 6 weeks post ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166467#msg-166467 Carey AFIBBERS FORUM Sun, 25 Nov 2018 16:28:54 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166465#msg-166465 Re: Increased. PACs starting 6 weeks post ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166465#msg-166465

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mwcf
Bigeminal PACs feel crap too since rage ventricles are beating in sync with them.

My hope is that, in case they are PACs leading to afib, an ablation touch up could help getting rid of both in the same time.
I guess there's no chance doing this with PVCs..]]> Pompon AFIBBERS FORUM Sun, 25 Nov 2018 16:19:19 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166450#msg-166450 Re: Increased. PACs starting 6 weeks post ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166450#msg-166450 mwcf AFIBBERS FORUM Sat, 24 Nov 2018 22:22:26 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166436#msg-166436 Re: Increased. PACs starting 6 weeks post ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166436#msg-166436

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Carey
On closer examination (and after flipping your image to the normal orientation) you're right, that is bigeminal PVCs. Yeah, that must be uncomfortable.

Probably a little confusing because of the MCL1 positioning. They're a bit wider when displayed in a more conventional lead II tracing.
That said, I'd have liked them to be PACs...]]> Pompon AFIBBERS FORUM Sat, 24 Nov 2018 09:01:30 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166415#msg-166415 Re: Increased. PACs starting 6 weeks post ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166415#msg-166415 Carey AFIBBERS FORUM Fri, 23 Nov 2018 21:23:56 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166409#msg-166409 Re: Increased. PACs starting 6 weeks post ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166409#msg-166409 Pompon AFIBBERS FORUM Fri, 23 Nov 2018 18:00:22 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166408#msg-166408 Re: Increased. PACs starting 6 weeks post ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166408#msg-166408 Carey AFIBBERS FORUM Fri, 23 Nov 2018 17:47:19 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166407#msg-166407 Re: Increased. PACs starting 6 weeks post ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166407#msg-166407

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Carey

Quote

I can live with some ectopics, but the bigeminal pattern as in ex. 2 is a really bad sensation.

I've experienced horrors like this for hours :

I don't think those PVCs are dangerous, but you know how one feels when they last for hours...]]> Pompon AFIBBERS FORUM Fri, 23 Nov 2018 17:10:55 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166405#msg-166405 Re: Increased. PACs starting 6 weeks post ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166405#msg-166405

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Pompon
I can live with some ectopics, but the bigeminal pattern as in ex. 2 is a really bad sensation.

I know the sensation very well. I used to experience bigeminal PACs that would last for weeks at a time, so I sympathize with you. I've got a stack of Kardia readings that look just like your #2 recording.]]> Carey AFIBBERS FORUM Fri, 23 Nov 2018 16:37:10 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166397#msg-166397 Re: Increased. PACs starting 6 weeks post ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166397#msg-166397
For me, 1), 3) & 4) give the sensation of afib. The difference comes from the breaks in SR for 1) & 4), and I'm used to call them "unsustained afib".
Nr 3 is common too, for me, and I sometimes wonder if it's not SVT (I've experienced it a couple of times), but it's different. SVT is regular. Here, it's not and I feel it.

I can live with some ectopics, but the bigeminal pattern as in ex. 2 is a really bad sensation.]]> Pompon AFIBBERS FORUM Fri, 23 Nov 2018 11:32:09 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166396#msg-166396 Re: Increased. PACs starting 6 weeks post ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166396#msg-166396

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Pompon
1) There are p waves. Why is it (unsustained) afib and not runs of ectopics?
2) OK.
3) Is it atypical flutter ? It's irregularly irregular. It looks like what I see in 4), but it's not interrupted.
4) Same question as for nr 1.

1) Yes, there are a few P waves but they come and go the same way the regularity comes and goes. You can call it runs of ectopics if you want but that's just semantics. Looks to me like you were wavering in and out of afib.
3) No way to tell if it's flutter at all without a 12-lead, never mind typical vs atypical. Flutter is just the most likely explanation.
4) Same answer from me on #1.

You know, having a mix of afib and flutter is really common and I think that's what your recordings look like. I did, and I've got a zillion recordings that look a lot like yours. It would start with some funky ectopics, then afib would start, and then it would convert to flutter, and then maybe to NSR for a while, then back to afib again. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Don't drive yourself crazy trying to identify exactly what rhythm you're seeing. I think you're seeing a bunch all mixed together.]]> Carey AFIBBERS FORUM Fri, 23 Nov 2018 06:54:27 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166377#msg-166377 Re: Increased. PACs starting 6 weeks post ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166377#msg-166377
1) There are p waves. Why is it (unsustained) afib and not runs of ectopics?
2) OK.
3) Is it atypical flutter ? It's irregularly irregular. It looks like what I see in 4), but it's not interrupted.
4) Same question as for nr 1.

Thanks.]]> Pompon AFIBBERS FORUM Thu, 22 Nov 2018 17:24:52 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166367#msg-166367 Re: Increased. PACs starting 6 weeks post ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166367#msg-166367 2) PACs in a bigeminal pattern
3) Not afib, probably flutter
4) Afib with a couple of PVCs]]> Carey AFIBBERS FORUM Wed, 21 Nov 2018 22:20:40 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166361#msg-166361 Re: Increased. PACs starting 6 weeks post ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166361#msg-166361 Tracings captured with lead wires in "MCL1" configuration (neg under the left clavicle, pos in V1, gnd under the right clavicle).

1°) Around 1:30 AM. Obviously, runs of ectopics. In the 3rd line, 1 left PVC ?

2°) Some minutes later. PVCs (bigeminism) ?

3°) Around 7:05 AM. Felt like afib. Looks like afib on the tracing. Isn't it afib ? (+ 1 PVC in the third line ?)

4°) Around 7:15 AM. PVCs and runs of PACs ? Some minutes later, I was back in NSR.

]]> Pompon AFIBBERS FORUM Wed, 21 Nov 2018 16:33:11 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166359#msg-166359 Re: Increased. PACs starting 6 weeks post ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166359#msg-166359

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rocketritch

Are you sure it was afib and not runs of eptopics?

Well, sometimes it's hard to Say, because I've runs of ectopics as well as afib. As it was worse than usual last night, I stood up and took the time sticking electrodes and recording some sequences.
I'll post some tracings tonight.]]> Pompon AFIBBERS FORUM Wed, 21 Nov 2018 11:33:13 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166357#msg-166357 Re: Increased. PACs starting 6 weeks post ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166357#msg-166357

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Pompon

I've only experienced 3 episodes in November (1, 2 & 4 Nov.), so I'm now afib free for two weeks, but I've still lots of ectopics. Particularly when laying down. I'm used to them, but I know they can turn to afib, which is not reassuring.

I should not have written that.
Lots of ectopics this night, kicking afib at 7:00 am. I took my flec at 7:05, back to NSR 15 min later. Obviously, the flec got not enough time to act, but things are quiet now, no ectopics at all, which may eventually be an effect of the flecainide as well as the fact that the "battery" is depleted.

Are you sure it was afib and not runs of eptopics?]]> rocketritch AFIBBERS FORUM Wed, 21 Nov 2018 10:47:22 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166354#msg-166354 Re: Increased. PACs starting 6 weeks post ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166354#msg-166354

I should not have written that.
Lots of ectopics this night, kicking afib at 7:00 am. I took my flec at 7:05, back to NSR 15 min later. Obviously, the flec got not enough time to act, but things are quiet now, no ectopics at all, which may eventually be an effect of the flecainide as well as the fact that the "battery" is depleted.]]> Pompon AFIBBERS FORUM Wed, 21 Nov 2018 06:49:53 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166342#msg-166342 Re: Increased. PACs starting 6 weeks post ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166342#msg-166342 Pompon AFIBBERS FORUM Tue, 20 Nov 2018 19:40:51 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166341#msg-166341 Re: Increased. PACs starting 6 weeks post ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166341#msg-166341 Each time I feel ectopics or afib, it seems that my vagal tone can't keep the control of my HR because it has to fight against opposite informations trying to make their way to my brain. I'm no scientist, it's just the way I feel the troubles in my chest.

Edit : I must add that the opposite informations seem to come essentially from my stomach.]]> Pompon AFIBBERS FORUM Tue, 20 Nov 2018 19:38:34 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166340#msg-166340 Re: Increased. PACs starting 6 weeks post ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166340#msg-166340
[www.afibbers.org]
and this contribution by PC starting on p. 18.

[www.afibbers.org]

This one has multiple observations and references in the first 5 pages… plus more later.
[www.afibbers.org]

PC talks about Right Side Left Side and vagal tone in this one
[www.afibbers.org]

This one by PC starting on page 28
Pre and Post Ablation PACs
[www.afibbers.org]

I stopped searching at Session 50…
You can continue at this link for more
[www.afibbers.org]

Jackie]]> Jackie AFIBBERS FORUM Tue, 20 Nov 2018 19:30:34 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166338#msg-166338 Re: Increased. PACs starting 6 weeks post ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166338#msg-166338

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Pompon
I once suggested this analogy with a battery charging and discharging, because after an afib episode (the discharge), I was sure to be afib free for a couple of days (the recharge). There was such a pattern.
Now, it's already different, which means the behaviour of my vagal tone and the reactions in my heart chambers are evolving.

I also experienced that pattern for many years. In fact, I could feel it. I knew when an episode was coming. The analogy I used was tectonic plates. Pressure builds and builds until eventually the plates shift and an earthquake occurs, relieving the pressure.

But I'm not so sure vagal tone has anything to do with it. I've asked a couple of EPs if they could explain the phenomenon and they could not.]]> Carey AFIBBERS FORUM Tue, 20 Nov 2018 18:18:00 +0000 https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166336#msg-166336 Re: Increased. PACs starting 6 weeks post ablation https://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?9,166300,166336#msg-166336

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Gill
Pompon

They follow a similar pattern to to my AF before it became persistent - I get loads, then it’s almost as though there has been a discharge of electricity and everything goes quiet. After a few days I get occasional ones, then they gradually build up until there is another 'discharge'. Nothing seems to change that pattern.

Gill

I once suggested this analogy with a battery charging and discharging, because after an afib episode (the discharge), I was sure to be afib free for a couple of days (the recharge). There was such a pattern.
Now, it's already different, which means the behaviour of my vagal tone and the reactions in my heart chambers are evolving.
October was bad month for me, with 14 afib episodes (from less than 1/2h to 2h, just one of them lasting 4h15).
I've only experienced 3 episodes in November (1, 2 & 4 Nov.), so I'm now afib free for two weeks, but I've still lots of ectopics. Particularly when laying down. I'm used to them, but I know they can turn to afib, which is not reassuring.]]> Pompon AFIBBERS FORUM Tue, 20 Nov 2018 18:11:40 +0000